posted
I know a lot of signmakers, especially new to the business have problems trying to correctly price a job, a then get it without leaving too much money on the table. This method also works for evaluation purposes for veterans to the business.
If you will get a variety of examples, of jobs that other sign providers have did, and then somehow find out what the job cost was to the buyer. (most owners will tell you gladly) Take that figure and work it out on paper in reverse.... The material costs, the approximated labor hours, and the added design elements. It is easy to determine the net, with a little practice.
Once you have established a mode, you can price about anything custom. The main thing that you need to do is fall into the same or less price range as the prices that were given you to decipher from. If not, then I would not spend a lot of time trying to secure those types of jobs.
This method has no gaps, and once you can apply a rythym to your pricing with a shoprate that will work to get the jobs, and one that will turn you a profit, you are set. This method will also tell you if you are working too cheap. If you can't compete with the pricelines, then it's time to look for a new line of work. It is miserable to bid a bunch of jobs, that you "just missed".........
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I'm new sign business. And I find it very hard to price jobs and know that my prices are ballpark. I do have one of those Signwriters Pricing Guides, but that does very little for me. I find there prices high for the area that I live in. Right now I feel like it's something tht I'm going to stuggle with for awhile, but like you said, I can't help but think of all the jobs that I just missed out on. Since we're on the this subject. Would anyone be willing to share how they price window lettering. I have a larger job right now that has one to two color vinyl window lettering.
-------------------- Inga Daniels Universal Design 2867 Iris Lane Hartland, Mi. 48353 unvrsldsign@aol.com Posts: 19 | From: Hartland, Michigan | Registered: Oct 2002
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This works for ME.... I draw an imaginary rectangle around the area I'm going to letter. Let's say it measures 36" X 60". I add them together.......96.......and charge $96! If I add outlines or shadows, I double it. If I'm lettering a sign blank, I add the cost of materials X 2. Any logos are extra of course. It's not perfect, but it's easy to deal with both for YOU and the customer.
posted
Inga, Perhaps if you would post up an approximate layout and give us the sign, we could tell you what our area would bare as far as price. Its all very relative to your area, and you might be closer to ask a few of the merchants what they paid for similar signs. Reverse the pricing procedure as I tryed to explain, and see if you can cut the mustard. It's the best pricing method that I know of. Some of the prices that you will run up against will get you thinking about a new career, but you will at least know.
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Inga, Prices should reflect the quality of your work, the value of it as an advertising medium, and the service you provide. To hell with what the other chumps charge. A new shop opened around the lake from me... the population is 700 and goes up to 30,000 during summer season. This new shop advertises magnetic signs for $50, mine start at $150, do I need to re think my prices???
I don't need to compete at these prices no one person shop should unless they want to be a volume operation competing for fleeting dollars and price shoppers that will leave you over $1.25.
I turn away 80% of people who come here just over price, I am not turning away good paying customers, I'm just not getting sucked into working at thier idea of what they think I should earn. Asking a potential customer what thier budget is gets to the bottom line very quickly and within 5 minutes I know if I am wasting my time. Why should I go broke working my ass off when I can sit at home drink beer and go broke just as easily?
It is your business, you set the price, send me some sketches and I'll give some input on how I would approach the pricing.
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
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Jack...when I was doing bids for a large commercial firm, one of our jobs was to "recap" the job after it was complete to see if in fact we had made money on that job. Essentially it is the same thing you are talking about, just after the fact.
In the process of doing bids and recapping I found one truth that stood out... (material costs always came out to 25%) once I figured that out I started bidding eveything 4 times the material cost. And I have never lost money doing so. There are exceptions to this rule and you need to learn to see them. Sometimes a job will be heavy with materials and sometimes time will rule the job.
Never the less this is a good way for new people to learn to bid their work...sometimes you'll make more profit than at others but generally you will never lose money... do it this way then fine tune it as you go along.
Example: 4'x'8'x 1/2" sign primed and painted (around $60.00) times 4 = $240.00 (lowest you should bid)
takes a lot of pain out of it when your in the field and need a quick bid to ge the job.
Figuring Bobs job this way comes to about $120. (interesting)
"werks fer me it'll werk fer you"
[ April 30, 2003, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
I do like Monte does only I multiply everything by 5. It just always seems to work out right. Like he said, there are times when it doesn't work out and I adjust accordingly. Usually it is when I feel something should be priced higher. That is something you can only learn with experience.
As long as the boss is making x5 on his material costs, he's happy. He figures he's paying me to be here whether I'm working on a job or not, so he never worries about working production time into the price. He's knows it's not the right way to do it but it works for us.
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We could go on forever about what costs should or shouldn't be Bob...all I am pointing out here is a way to price things and not go broke ...If you took what I said and took it times 5 (Terry's method) it would be over what you get.
We regularly get $300. or more for 4'x8' signs...all are judged on their own merit.
Sometimes we sell them for less.
In general things are cheaper here and higher somewhere else.
I'm not offering a formula for success , just some guidelines to survive long enough to be able to succeed ,while honing the skills needed to do so.
"Werked fer me ...it'll werk fer anybody"
[ May 01, 2003, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
Here's a little recap: Method one: add the dimensions (inches) plus 2x the materials Method two: 4x or 5x the materials
The first method seems better for PAINTED signs. The second method is better for VINYL signs. Both seem to work for basic signs of 5 to 8 words with simple logos.
For instance, I just painted a customers logo onto an awning -- it took me 3 hours, including printing and pouncing the pattern, etc. All told, I used about $5 of paper and maybe two ounces of paint ($1?). So with the first method i'd make $175 and with the second method I'd make $30.
Neither method leaves much on the table for window graphics or working on difficult surfaces (corrugated, awnings, or stucco).
I'm pricing a lot of work right now like menus and instructions for parking lots, that are very text heavy. Neither of the above responds well to complex signage.
The materials only method has a bias towards using expensive materials -- you earn a LOT more making a 3 x 8 Dibond sign than a 3 x 8 banner, but both require the same ammount of labor (the Dibond might actually use less labor since the better grade vinyl is faster to work with).
For me, I'll stick to my pricing book. I get $400 to $500 for a plywood 4x8, and $345 for the awning job.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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Scooter, If you're getting THAT kind of money, I like YOUR pricing better than mine. On the other hand, if I do a 4X8 with my large format setup, I get $750-$900! It's all in the process I guess!
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