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This site being what it is, frequented by people who are in the biz for the love of it, I think you're going to get skewed statistics. Having said that, I've been an employer as well as a a one man band and I prefer being a one man band. I've never had any trouble finding people well capable of doing the work but I DID have trouble finding people that cared as much about my business as me. Fianlly I realised the bleeding obvious. The ones that give a rat's are already out there working for themselves because they have an ethic and "tude" that means they tire quickly of working for someone else and producing work that they think they could do better. Its been a great pleasure working with, learning from and having some great times with them though. One observation from my time both as an employer and a subcontractor, except in exceptional circumstances trying to be a friend AND an mployer is a bad idea. All parties need to have a very clear understanding of expectations and roles or both wind up with equal and opposite gripes. David
-------------------- David Fisher D.A. & P.M. Fisher Services Brisbane Australia da_pmf@yahoo.com Trying out a new tag: "Parents are the bones on which children cut their teeth Peter Ustinov Posts: 1450 | From: Brisbane Queensland Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have a friend who owns a CLASSIC CAR paint shop. He's got 6 employees.....and a "theory" . Every 5 years he closes the shop for 2 weeks, and has his employees thoroughly clean up the place and repaint the floors and walls, etc. At the end of the two weeks, he fires everybody and goes on a 2 week vacation. He gives everyone a 2 week severence check. When he comes back, he starts hiring again. His theory is: Your BEST employee was at his best the first 3 years....then he staerts to take things for granted and his production goes down, OR he's become a PRIMA DONNA if he's good! The employees that arent cutting the mustard, you dont want to keep anyway. So...I guess "cleaning house" is HIS answer. Even tho it kinda makes sense, I'm not saying I agree with his tactics, but after 45 years, it works for HIM. I dont have that problem....I WORK ALONE!
posted
So after reading all these post, is it remotely possible some of you have bad attitudes too, or bad work habits, or maybe have no clue on what you are doing?. I mean really, what would you realy have to offer a seasoned sign person. I don't think Im reading that there is employee bashing here, but looking at both sides, it is a 2 way street. An employye is only going to be as good as an employer, if the employee exceeds the employer, than what compensation will there be? Not much I bet. I have no real motivation to start a sign shop full time, I love my job, and Im really good at it, I like my employer, and workmates. Im never told what to do, treated with respect and an adult, and get paid very well for doing some really cool projects. I never got that kind of satisfaction working for a mom and pop, mosty it was "attutude" broken promises, small 25 cent raises and overworked with little appreciation. It goes both ways, but then again, maybe there is a reason most here work on thier own. It could be that its easier not to have an employee, or maybe it's they know thier business so well that they don't really need one. Or maybe it's a lack of vision, or drive to do better work, or maybe they don't play well with others. Either way, it goes back to what an employee and employer has to offer, lives are involved, and there is a lot of responsibity on both sides, especially if you are a small sign shop, and maybe as a small business owner you dont want to rely on a "stranger" to help you succeed.
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1540 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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i would say your are lucky to be in the minority...i toy with the idea of hiring someone but there are factors like: i work out of my home...can i trust someone with access to my personal life? not that i do anything illegal. but i'm a private person that likes her space...i also have a husband who i need to be considerate of...it's bad enough when customers come over often... are they going to be as picky as i am with my projects? will they respect my equipment and tools? will they be safe? will i get sued if they are not?
and what do i have to offer? i worry enough about paying the bills i have, do i really want to be responsile for someone elses livelihood? if i ever do i know that i would be very fair and compensate for talent and knowledge. it would be a fun place to work that i'm sure of.
i guess since i can't offer any guarantees i'll keep to being solo...i would feel terrible if i hired someone and in 7 months it's not busy and i can't afford them. i don't feel that this threat meant to bash employess but just to air out the frustrations employers encounter. i realize there are great employees out there..i just hope some day i can be the lucky minority and have one.
[ April 25, 2003, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I have been on all sides of this equation in the 32 years I have been in the sign business. I have been an employee and have been laid off when work got slow; twenty years ago, I got fired from my own company after I sold controlling interest (the majority owner’s son needed a job after dropping out of school); I have had 14 employees and I have been solo. I have been home based; I have also been in several thousand square feet of lease space on a major highway. I have had good experiences hiring family and friends; I have been burned by family and friends.
Every scenario has its own pluses and minuses. Solo offers more freedom–at a price. Sometimes, you are just spread too thin. If you do want to get away, what happens when one of your valued customers calls and you are on vacation? It is generally true that it is hard to get an employee with the knowledge and commitment you have. However, if someone can take some of the “grunt” work away from you, you can get other, more pressing things done. If you did not have time to make a $2000 sale because you were coating boards for a $200 job, you may be going backward.
However, when I had 14 employees, I was always needing someone. The artist is going on maternity leave, I have to get someone else in there; the foreman is sick of the long commute and is looking for a job elsewhere; the pattern maker keeps goofing off and has to be replaced; the secretary’s family is moving; the installers are feuding, etc.
I had to make the decision as to whether I wanted to be the manager or the craftsman. I really enjoyed both fields but I decided to go back to being smaller. What works best for me is having one or two employees that I can train to do the jobs the way I want them done. I pay them fairly and am generous with bonuses when we sell and finish a large job. Twice, I have given bonuses of over $5000. I felt if the employee helped me to make a good profit, he deserved to make one also.
The foreman I have now is intensely loyal. He has turned down good offers from other companies because I was “always there for him” and he will always be here for me. He does not enjoy the computer and English is not his first language, so I am not able to use him in customer relations, however, his work ethic for getting the work done cannot be equaled. I had another employee whose back always “hurt” when the heavy lifting came around, but was a whiz at computers and design. He loved the interaction with customers and took a huge load off me in design, sales and site surveys. A year ago, he received an out of state assignment after going to Ministerial Training School. I really miss him, for in my business, I really need both types.
When you do good work, your business cannot help but to grow, leading to those decisions of whether or not to hire employees. Being an entrepreneur means you will always be in a state of flux.
[ April 26, 2003, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: David Harding ]
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5106 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Well said David. I am most gratefull to have been an employee at some "quality shops" in my career and worked with some talented people.
I am a one man shop mostly, but hire part-timers, and hire from the labor pool on occasion for installs. My company is growing and I would like to hire a shop person for painting/carpentry/installs sometime this year if possible. One person can only do so much and I am spead too thin at times. Someone in sales would increase the growth at a faster rate, but I don't want to get too big.
Actually, I am looking for a partner of sorts to join my company and do sales, billing and office stuff so I can concentrate on designing & production.
Cheers
[ April 26, 2003, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Robert Thomas ]
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134 Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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As I've said above out shop is both me by myself for much of the year and a farily large crew when we have a big job going. THere are certainly advantages to both sizes.
When I'm by myself I tend to be a lot less disciplined. My hours are spread out more and my personal life get mixed in through the day. Not a bad thing at all. I also have to do pretty much everything, even the jobs which aren't my favorite.
When I work with a bigger crew... time IS money. A crew can cost big bucks in a hurry, especially when they aren't productive. And they are as productive and organized as I am... no one else to blame.
With good planning on my part I can make the work environment a lot less stressfull and a whole lot more fun for everyone. I have found that for the most part people LIKE to be productive. They LIKE to be recognized for good work too.
A little bit of care and compassion goes a long way.
With a big crew things go a lot faster, and with proper planning can free me up to do more creative work than I could accomplish by myself.
But as the big jobs finish I always enjoy going back to the slightly more leasurely pace I get when I work by myself.
So I guess I have the best of both worlds... and not TOO MUCH of either.
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8761 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yeah Sheila - welcome to MY world! Have worked alone all but 7 of my 28 years in the biz. It's impossible to be everything to everyone - that's the conclusion I've come to, because there's no life for me. I'm being more particular about customers I take and the one's I keep - the work I do for them has to be important to them, they pay me well,and I have to like working for them - It really is all about attitude - whether it's yours, your help or your customers. I like working alone - my husband usually gets my trucks/trailers moved in, out & around constantly - knows most all my customers on a first name basis - so I just need to put some more vinyl in front of hime to weed once in a while! We'd either work real well together or we'd kill each other (not sure!) This topic is one of my customers largest complaints GOOD, DEPENDABLE help. I've found that this is one of the valable assets I bring to them, They can depend on me to get it done when I say (even though they often wait considerably)and to the caliber they expect of me. But, it is very overwhelming at times to say the least. My husband and I have a saying when things get really nuts! "I feel like Superman with everyone tugging on my cape at the same time! ARRRGH! As you can tell... its been a long week. Just looking forward to a weekend with friends at Mass Mayhem. Karen
Again I reply to this great post! I sincerely hope I can give out those bonuses too! I really like the people I work with. I have a hard time being called "the boss" I never put "President" or "Owner" on my business cards. They say "sales consultant" I don't power trip on any of that. I treat my people like friends. I also realize that some employees need to be babysat or constant supervision. I don't hire them. I want it to be a difficult decision if they have another opportunity. Just some random thoughts.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3503 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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