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I was just informed today by my local supplier that the mill they deal with is no longer producing dimensional clear heart vertical grain red wood. I guess we knew the day was coming but red wood is getting harder and harder to find. Anyone out there in the neighborhood have a source for this? Thanks a bunch.
I would love too hear your opionion (and anyone else's). We market the product in Canada but have a hard time selling it and I'm not sure as to why.
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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This is the very reason I (and many others) have switched to Clear of Heart, vertical, horizontal and lateral grained HDU (high density urethane). After being completely "wood-free" for 3 years now, there is no going back!!!
Werks fer me.....and, I bet it'll werk fer you too
-------------------- John Smith Kings Bay Signs (Retired) Kissimmee, Florida Posts: 817 | From: Central Florida - The Sunshine State | Registered: Jan 2000
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i have been useing Himes & Starr Redwood supply out of Dallas Texas 214 331-4301 and have been very happy with there product and service and has been cheeper than redwood sign blank supplyers here in California.....dang...the stuff grows here!!!
-------------------- Aaron Haynes Aaron's Signs & Windows Napa Ca aa4signs@sbcglobal.net ------------ Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two" ------------ If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes. Posts: 241 | From: Napa Ca. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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We have a lumberyard in Rochester NY supposedly they are one of the last in western NY to have any redwood.... when they got the last shipment...one sign co swooped in and hawked 7 grand worth..they even got to pick it over. I remember in the 70's....a guy built a swimmin pool deck outa 2x12's...18 footers.....over 2500 square feet........even the yard guys winced!... magine the freight on that one?
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Thanks you guys for the replies. Jon I have bookmarked that page and will check it out when I have some time this week. Too the other John, I agree. We have moved away from redwood and do almost every thing out of sign foam. but every once in a while I have a client who insists on having a redwood blank. This is especially true for some of the large ranch gate signs we do. Oh well. Thanks again to all!
as a sculpture in wood for a long time, I might enlighten you on something that has rarely been raised...and that is...
ALL wood has the same rate of deterioration if not properly sealed!...Dense Species like lignun vitae will not deteriorate as fast only because of the inability to absorb moisture as fast.
but try sandblasting that stuff....
Redwood has no special properties over cedar, pine etc....it just blasts with a better consistency than others that helps it's sell value as a sustrate for blasting...ie...clear heart...now go try to blast redwood that is not clear heart and you have the same results you might find in your other "knotty" species
Pierre, Joe and others that consitently work in wood will concur with these findings, I'm sure.
Any!...specie that has an open soft non grainy working ability will do the trick.
Another key factor is the moisture content of the wood you receive. Redwood has intentionally been kiln dried more than other species because of it's uses...not species...and it kilns faster than cherry, walnut...etc.
The only exception to all of this that I know of would be cypress because of it's own natural habitat. It grows in water and becomes itself a bit more resilient to decay...but it does decay and must be sealed!
Hope this helps!
[ April 16, 2003, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Robert Beverly ]
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1023 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Robert thanks for the info. I agree with all you offer. The only advantage of redwood vs cedar is grain when blasting. I just did a large ranch gate sign out of cedar and used my grain frame to help the grain pattern "along". Any wood will decay and crack and warp over time, even if has been sealed well. It just prolongs the process. LOL. That is why I push Signfoam with a grain pattern.
Have you tried the California Redwood Association: www.calredwood.org yet? I am sure they will do all they can to make sure you have plenty of lumber to work with.
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The last decent source I had for redwood was Reed Redwood in Calif. but the last time I talked with them a couple of years ago, they were trying to retire and were only offering blanks glued up butcher-block style....no more of those beautiful planks they used to come up with.
Jon, i guess I've never looked at the Allwood cedar blanks you mentioned....got any free samples? Don't worry, after checking out the link you posted I found out Midwest in Kansas City is my closest supplier so I'll take a look at it.
Robert, are you sure about that? In other words, are you saying a redwood deck & a pine deck (both unsealed) will weather at the same rate? I thought the tanin content of redwood made it more weather resistant. Not trying to be argumentative, just not sure I'm understanding what you're saying. Also,if you have a chance could you take a look at the source in Dallas that Aaron posted (don't make a special trip, but hey, if you're in the neighborhood.... )
-------------------- Chris Elliott 1longshot@classicnet.net cell 62084two2232 Posts: 686 | From: Scottsdale, AZ & Anthony, KS, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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The only types of pine that I know of which will outlast redwood, cedar or cypress, is pressure treated pine or solid heart fat lightered. I have made routed signs out of solid yellow-heart fat lightered pine which had already been in the weather without any paint for probably 100years. It's still in the weather. But there is so much resin in that stuff it will burn like jet fuel...burn up a router bit too. But most of the pine we have here won't last two or three years in the weather before it rots to mush.
I have a cedar sign which has never been painted and was allowed to weather to a dark grey. It is now about 15 years old, is still in the weather is cracked and checked but it ain't rotten. My Dad made some gates out of cypress....same thing...even better.
Cedar makes nice, durable sandblasted and routed signs. Cypress does too but it doesn't blast as well. The wood fibers are too tough and stringy. Takes longer to blast.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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I agree that the tanin in the grain does help it but it also helps others with same content. The study shown does clarify a lot of what is the prime causes of decay...and the actual tree components do have a great deal to do with how fast the decay occurs.
They have gotten to the point of selling #2 Redwood as heart so apples to apples are necessary for a good eval anymore.
It just tends to be minute compared to the "value" that redwood holds at 15.00 per foot over species of equal worth....It is not as good as what historically it is made to be. There are other species that deserve the same recognition and of course now...a choice . The large tree has always been a factor in getting big sticks as opposed to those smaller trees.
As for Himes Redwood
We have used their product for a long time and have no problem with their product overall. You do have to be careful about getting their prelam boards with a high water content. They also prove to be haphazardly glued together without attention to grain value which can be very annoying and useless when blasting large graphics.
I will pull out some reference materials to further clarify my decay argument.
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1023 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Jon, We have tried them...never again! The glue joints crack in the cold weather. Not a pretty sight. Nothing worse than having to re do a 6 month old sign.
-------------------- Bob & Marcia Peach Peach Signs Inc Sandwich, MA rpeach9828@aol.com Posts: 1020 | From: Sandwich, MA | Registered: Jan 2002
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Robert, I haven't had time to read that study myself yet & I was just going off of some old info that I seem to remember from California Redwood Association materials (hopefully things will settle down here this evening & I'll have time to go over all this then).
-------------------- Chris Elliott 1longshot@classicnet.net cell 62084two2232 Posts: 686 | From: Scottsdale, AZ & Anthony, KS, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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We have successfully used AllWood RED cedar blanks for about 5 years. Midwest Sign Supply is distributor, plus they can drop ship from AllWood if they don't have a particular size on hand. Careful when ordering from Midwest though. I am constantly having to figure out the grain DIRECTION on the blank I am ordering, as the order people all think "vertical grain" refers to the direction, not the quality of the grain. FYI, the 1st dimension in the blank size is the grain direction. RE: 36 x 25 blank has the grain running along the 36 dimension, and and 25 x 36 blank has grain running with the 25 direction.
We used to hand pick our redwood at a local lumber supplier, and then Maris did the glueing up, alternating cusp and carefully matching patterns. Still ended up with suprises anyways. The AllWood blanks have been a great alternative. Maris still glues up small blanks from leftover stock, or sometimes a large and small blank will be glued to make an irregularly shaped sign.
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