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I have a client (well I guess former client now) who is starting a small local transit bus company. I did the sign for their office and was supposed to be involved in the company handling the ads that would go on the bus. I was supposed to be sort of thier contract art dept and would be dealing direct with the customer.
I made a deal (verbal) with them that I would design the logo and as long as I got to put the graphics on the buses, the logo would be free. I quoted $500.00 per bus (they have 2) and he seemed pleased with the price. A few days later he tells me someone dropped by and would do it for $100.00! I told him that was crazy if someone could do it for that.
I finally got a hold of him earlier this week and he told me someone was trying to rob him for $1000.00, (the exact amount I quoted for the 2 buses), he then had to go so he didn't call back.
I have a relative who works at a place near the bus company and she told my wife that the buses have graphics on them, but they were really small, (smaller than what I was going to give them).
Here's my question, being I have apparently lost the work, I want to send him a bill for $250.00 for the logo design, because after all, it was only free if I got the work.
What would you do?
[ April 10, 2003, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Tony B ]
-------------------- Tony Broussard Graphic Details Digital Media Loreauville, LA Posts: 395 | From: Loreauville, LA | Registered: Jul 1999
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1. get the agreement IN WRITING. Bob Burn's tagline line is "The customer is your enemy. act like it." This is one of the situations that proves it.
2. How did this other guy get the logo? Did you let a sketch out without a deposit/signed agreement? We have rules against this sort of thing for this very reason.
3. Not a whole lot you can do. $250 is kinda low for the logo design, I'd increase that. Are you ever going to get any $ outta it? Doubtful. Not sure if I'd send an invoice out or wait til the graphics fail and he comes to you wanting it redone. Someone else will have to field this as I get cash in hand.
One thing you MUST DO: print the invoice. tack it up where you have to see it all the time (above the computer/cash register/toilet) so you teach yourself never to do this again.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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As of now, I have not seen the buses. I plan on going to thier place on sunday to see if they used my logo or not. They had a freind design the logo first, and they told me see what you can do with this, so I changed it to where it didn't look like the first one. I had the logo printed out on a plain sheet (no copyright etc) because I was doing some biz cards and they were on them too, (so if they did use the logo, they had to scan it.) This was after the verbal agreement about the logo.
I set the price at $250.00, but might go up on it. I normaly charge about $350.00 and up on logos.
I will go and check the buses out and take a pic, if the graphics don't have my logo, I will still send them a letter stating that the logo belongs to me and they are not to use it any furthur or I will charge them the fee.
-------------------- Tony Broussard Graphic Details Digital Media Loreauville, LA Posts: 395 | From: Loreauville, LA | Registered: Jul 1999
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I agree with Chris 100% Its the ol' bait the sign guy trick, and you fell for it. Count it as a blessing that you didn't lose more. Remember time is money, and unless it was a bad logo, he is making money on the work you did, CHARGE FOR ALL YOUR WORK! Guys like me get paid a lot of money to design a logo, the reason guys like him go to a sign shop for logo work is that he wants a deal, I guess he got one.... Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1539 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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"If you do not have 'Terms of Business', you do not have a business." Without Terms of Business, you are an amateur playing at running a business.
The whole point about constructing Terms of Business is that YOU define on what terms you will, and will not, do business. Remember that if you do not define your Terms of Business, you are at a disadvantage in any dispute. In such cases, the client's version of what he/she thinks you meant or agreed to has as much weight or more than yours does in a court of law. BUT if you have a copy of your Terms of Business signed by the Client, he or she must abide by those Terms. In other words, if you are wise, you will set the ground rules for your business relationship before somebody else sets them for you - to your detriment.
With regards to payment terms, Get money up front. Call it a Commitment fee. Call it a Downpayment or Deposit or Payment on Account. Call it a Client Registration Fee. Call it what you will, but get a payment up front - IMMEDIATELY AFTER the client has signed the Terms of Business Agreement (T.O.B.) and the Client Instructions form.
The payment does not have to be large, but it is a SIGN of COMMITMENT by the Client, and this is something that you MUST HAVE before you proceed any further.
The point is that they HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION to buy your services, before they will make a payment. It is the Decision that is important. The payment is the sign that a favourable decision has been made. It is a good sign that if the contract is completed satisfactorily you will get paid.
If you do not get this Sign of Commitment, do not do any work, because you WILL NOT GET PAID.
If the Client is unable to make a payment at that time, assure him/her that you will start work as soon as you receive the Deposit/Fee - and stick to that, or you will run the risk of being conned into doing work that you will not be paid for.
Remember, that in general, the law protects your customer, but it is YOU that many customers are trying to rob. You need proper paperwork to prove that in a Court of Law. Do not be found wanting, or you will lose - not only that, but they may successfully claim compensation or damages against You - unless your T.O.B. etc., precludes those possibilities. Never mind that they do not have Small Claims Courts where you live. The Client's attempt to Claim against YOU will NOT BE SMALL.
If you are not being taken seriously by your prospects, it may be because they are not really serious prospect! In other words, you need to more closely define and qualify those prospects that you intend to target before you waste your valuable time visiting them.
finally Dress the part - wear an appropriate business "uniform", that says that you have come to do business. Above all, you must not under-estimate the importance and power of the appropriate uniform
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Tony, I feel for ya buddy. Probably the first thing you did wrong was to offer the logo free to get the buses. Maybe discounted it some, but definitely not free. It probably gave the person the idea they could jack you around. Some customers are always looking for the easy way out, which means screw the signguy if I can. I never send out artwork without the copyright warning on it. If they use it, they pay. They also sign the artwork with the disclaimer on it. That way, you have a paper with their hancock on it. No disputing that. Ive been where youre at Tony. I always try and be nice to the customer and during these times, each and every customer is worth keeping. But sometimes jerks can spoil the apple barrell.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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T-Boy, that will be something I don't miss about Cajun country. That seems to happen so often in Laf to me. Customers are shopping signwork all the time.
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