posted
I have read posts where this has been discussed but never had a demand for flat paint until today, so I hadn't memorized what I've read.
I have a painter in here today wanting a sign for his gallery. He is requesting a flat background color of a deep dark "sherwood" forest green. The lettering will also need to be flat ivory, so I will probably need to use a mask & mix a flat paint for that as well.
posted
doug, the problem i have had with using a paint mask on a "dead flat" background is the mask does not stick well enough to insure a clean line.
i have done lettering for television(interior) and have found that i have better luck with finishing the signage(after the fact) with a matte finish clear. (paint mask seems to work better on a semi-gloss background, i guess it's a matter of "tooth")
at most paint stores one can buy a gloss modifier(tends to be "chalky in appearance" and uneven as far as a true matte finish)
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Hi Doug, I do a lot of props and things for the theater, and they need a flat finish. Just roll, or foam brush a couple coats of a flat vinyl topcoat. Ronan makes one called "Vinyl Cote Flat". I still have the Chromatic "Ti-Cote" flat on hand, and I don't know which other brands have a product like this in their lineup. Besides being used for topcoats, it is also used as a barrier coat on vinyl banners so you can paint with oil base paint without plasticizer migration. I make some pretty elaborate art for theater stuff-Edge prints and cut vinyl included. This topcoat solves gloss problem.
If you still want to use flat paint, Chromatic made a "Flattening Paste". You have to experiment a bit to get a finish ranging from "dead flat" to "satin" to "low gloss". Paints that have been flattened have a tendancy to be a little streakier when hand lettering. Plan on double or triple coat. And mask adheres poorly, so you will need to make a pattern and hand letter.
posted
What do you know, I had a request from what is turning out to be the customer from hell today for the same thing.
Does flattening the paint in anyway change the life span of the surface?
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Jeffery..Ask you paint supplier... My answer..Yes, using flatting (not flattening) agents voids the warantee on any paint.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
talcium powder in the paint!!!!! baby powder will work....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I'd paint it the regular way and then put on a coat of flat varnish over top.
keep it simple.
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8739 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
My paint expert says that talc has been the flatting agent for paints over the years, but they have little request for it anymore, so they don't stock it. He said baby powder would sub for it, but not to use over 10%. Unfortunately it took at least 30% to get it to a suitable flatness. I would say the life will be shortened considerably.
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Very interesting replies so far. Thanks again to all who have offered advice.
I found a matte clear in a spray can today. For $5.00 I figured I'd try that while I look for the other suggestions.
My immediate needs are for interior signage so I will also try the "over 10% talcum powder idea. No one I've asked on Maui is aware of flattening (flatting)agents, but I will be contacting my off-island suppliers tomorrow.
posted
Why not use.... One Shot/3000 series? This is an oil based paint used on "show cards" WITH THE REPUTATION OF 1SHOT behind it! I use it mostly for window SPLASHES for the "contrast" of Shiney Glass Glare with the FLATNESS of the letters for more visual definition
Also known as poster(show card)paint with an oilbase,... NOT WATER!
Hope this helps
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I have never encountered the Chromating flattener...but I have used Nazdar Flattner for over 25 years and have never found it to reduce the life of the paints in any way. (I never use it more than 25 percent) it gives you a really nice satin finish with no "flashing".
I've used flat varnishes before but never found them satisfactory on an outside sign (the turn "milky" then flake after a while).
The talc deal works but makes the paint "chalk" prematurely.(especialy in dark colors.
I'm mentioning these things because they are the exeriences I've had with them...Nazdar has never let me down...who cares about the paint warrantee, the most you would ever get is some paint back...you loose the labor no matter what and dimes over dollars never made sense to me anyway.
"werks fer me it'll werk fer you"
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
There is a flattening powder available for screen print inks that works great with one shot. I got mine from Canadian Signcrafters (who are merchants here) If you do add flattening powder to your paint, make sure you strain it before using it.
Suelynn
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
So much great info... gotta love this place.
Monte, do you use the Naz-Dar flattener with one shot paint? or with Naz-Dar ink?
I actually (sort of accidently)rolled out a panel with Naz-Dar enamel ink just last week & was very impressed with the results. It went on so thick that when it flowed out to cure, it was much more glossy then what I have been able to achieve with one shot.
George, is that automotive flattener only good with automotive paint, or can that be used with one shot?
Suelynn & Pat, 2 good ideas there. One price I pay for living in Maui is a very limited source of sign supplies in the islands. One shot 3000 series is probably not available (I will check though as that sounds like a very direct solution) Shipping in a quart will incur a $50 hazardous material charge. Flattening powders are probably not hazardous though, so I will call Canadian Signcrafters & Naz-Dar. If the automotive paint folks on island have it though, that may be my quickest way out.
One last idea, inspired by Pat's suggestion, I have a good deal of Naz-Day poster inks. I will check them out when I get to the office. I'll be rolling this out on Sintra. Maybe that will work ???
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Doug, here's one I've done in a pinch: go to Walamarty or a hobby store and get the little bottles of flat model airplane paint. I only needed it for lettering, not a bkg, but it shore did work. (Man they'll let ANYBODY post here!) sincerly, Radar murdok!
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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You still having that identity crisis? I thought we cleared that up... the name's O'Reilly...Radar O'Reilly Heres a pic for you for when you get your residency.
*edit* (Maybe it's me whoose confused, I never watched the A-Team)
[ April 10, 2003, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
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So that's it huh? Questioning my wierdness. As if recomending model paint on a fine site like this wasn't wierd enough. Well, looks like I'll have to ratchet it up a little. The model paint reminds me of the time in my 5th grade class that the teacher had two contests. A sewing contest for the girls, and a model building contest for the boys.(Guess they weren't very P.C. back then) Anyway, I entered both. I made a folding wing WW2 airplane for the one contsest, and a dress coat to fit a doll for the other contest. I won both. So see, having mix and match name isn't too far fetched(for me). I could talk about the PHILOSOPHY of being wierd, but I'll save that for later. Man the things a guy has to go through to maintain a reputation! sincerly, Radar O'Murdok.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Doug ...yes the Nazdar flatting paste can be used in One Shot...I used to use it in Chromatic and have even used it in Sherwin williams enamels.
It has never failed me!
Like you I have been in a bind for color and had to use Nadar for a finish coat...it has always worked well. The main difference is the pigments are ground finer...it drys faster...gets a really good flow...and of course neds to be thinned.Other than that I've not encountered any adverse problems...even in the long run it doessssn't "chalk" the way lettering enamels do.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
Thanks for checkin' back in Monte. I bought a pound of the Naz-Dar flattener from the Honolulu branch of Hawaii's only sign supply outfit. It's on the barge now & will arrive in a week minus the hazardous materials charge.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
You still having that identity crisis? I thought we cleared that up... the name's O'Reilly...Radar O'Reilly
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