posted
We live in an area of incredible natural beauty. And it offends me to see the terrible mess of signs which litter our area.
The proliferation of sandwich boards, temporary signs, backlit plastic offend me the most. And the fact that they are illegal but still there year after year irks me even more.
Our place is in the middle of a 600 acre park. The park could be a world class facility without much effort, instead of the mediocre mess that currently exists.
We are working hard to change that. We did a presentation to the park board a while back and got their support to implement a sign program through the park over the next few years. In return they promise to enforce a sign bylaw which has been on their books for many years.
The first two signs went up last spring. Two more go up over the next 6 weeks. The business directory will allow them to get rid of the proliferation of sandwich boards at long last.
And talks continue (as well as many drawings and plans) to put a new face on the 70's style strip mall, facing it instead with stone and timber construction, more suited to a beautiful park. With that change the backlit signs will disappear as well with dimensional handcrafted signs taking their place.
Three of the largest local businesses have climbed on the bandwagon already to redo their signs in similar fashion. And the area is looking more like a world class park every day.
There's no money, only work in this project for me, but my payoff comes big time as I see the transformation of the area. But I believe it will bring prosperity to all the local businesses (including mine) as a result.
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8766 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
We tried something similar here in Prescott a few years ago....the result: Elimination of sandwich boards Elimination of billboards over8X10 Maximum 50 sq.ft. of signage for any individual business.....40 sq.ft. for 2 or more businesses at one location.
Our HISTORICAL COMMITTEE has totally taken over the design/style/color of ALL signs in the Historical area.
In other words, we help to cut our own throat!
The way the CITY has set itself up....CHAMBER of COMMERCE/ENGINEERING DEPT./HISTORICAL COMM./DOWNTOWN ASSN. etc. etc......the only thing we have a chance in achieving is the downsizing and/or elimination of our bread and butter. We're still working on it.......!
The cheap, quick, tacky 'signs' will give way to handcrafted works of art which fit into the park setting we want to preserve.
It's a park after all.
And to contradict your presumption that it will destroy business for sign folks, I believe the opposite. Last week I designed a new monument sign for the golfcourse. It replaced an inexpensive plywood billboard sign which was proposed. I didn't have time to take on the project and referred it to a local signshop.... estimated budget for the project... $7-10,000.
Our replacement program for all the monument signs for the park has a value in excess of $100,000 over a period of 5 years.
The replacement of the backlit signs in the plaza with dimensional signs will create work for local sign folks. And those signs don't come cheap.
And eventually ALL the street signs, no-go posts, and a thousand other signs will be replaced with higher quality, more park-suitable signs... many, many thousands of dollars of work for local shops who can think out of the box.
Rather than being limiting, this program can make the park more beautiful and create LOTS of choice work in the process.
-dan
[ April 07, 2003, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8766 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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I've been working for the past few years to get our town to be "more" restrictive in the types of signage in certain districts, particularly the historical districts. It has led to nicer, higher-end signage.
The only problem I've had is getting the city to enforce its own rules in any consistant fashion.
I'd love to see something like this happening in our Main Street shoping area, but I've always wondered how you get businesses to actually go along and buy new signage, redo their storefronts, etc., in other words, "spend money". I'm a member of the local Chamber of Commerce, but many businesses are not and seem to care little about the look of their building, and even among the chamber members there is widespread pessimism about any kind of a change. I guess I just kind of wonder where to start, and whether I even want to take on something like this...
posted
A great idea. if it does not get so expensive that the local small bizz man can't participate. We have the OLDE TOWNE project going here too.
All was fine until a very restrictive sign policy went into place. The new signage became so expensive that no one wanted to open a new bizz in old town. Hence, they made a few mods and now its working.
You cannot put a caddilac seat into a pinto and make it worth while..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5278 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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I assume you were commenting because the second post I entered was edited. (The opening post was not)
In this case it was because of spelling and grammar. And if you check through my many posts you will find many of them edited. On checking later I find that my words often don't come out quite like I intended or meant or my spelling is attrocious and so edit them. I always edit my posts within a little while of posting them... check the times if you like.
Sorry if it offends you. I don't intend to stop editing my posts however as I feel the result is better than if I don't edit.
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8766 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Dan, I think you may have mis-read what I tried to say. "cutting our throats...." etc. My dinky little sign biz is a "bread and butter" operation. My little "market" does milk, eggs and bread"......I do very little "veal and caviar". I do most of my business on the low end of the scale.....I like it that way....I make lots of bucks on signs that the other shops can't and won't do. My normal turnaround is one day for most everything except the "good" stuff. I do lots of a-frames and like that, for your run-o-the-mill retailers. I honestly don't like to tie myself up in the artsy-craftsy end of things. I'm more the "advertising/merchandising" type. Don't get me wrong. I love to do some high-end work, but my situation is such that it wouldn't pay for me, especially since I have no desire to "grow". I've found my niche, and I'm comfortable in it thank you very much. Going after "the City" to beautify the world of signs, I THOUGHT was a great idea, but in this town, it just backfired for me. I don't live in a park unfortunately. I live in a regular low-middle income residential area, where i work outa my garage.
posted
we all need to just throw in the towel. Have at it Dan. Beautify.
To all the rest of us......weed yourself out
"The proliferation of sandwich boards, temporary signs, backlit plastic offend me the most. And the fact that they are illegal but still there year after year irks me even more."
posted
Cultus Lake Park is an anomily... not private but not provincial. The land is owned by the city of Chilliwack, but governed and run by an independant local board. And the land on which businesses and residences are located is leased.
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8766 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
If Sandwich boards did not work, businesses would not use them. Business does NOT thrive with a lack of signs. Wood and so on need a huge amount of maintenance, and look like crud if they don't recieve it. Soon you could set up a board to regulate how often the signs are maintained. You could make them get only really expensive signs. You could start up another board and regulations to regulate colours used, that suit a park. You could regulate the boards with a master board that oversees all of them. Quite obviously, you do NOT support free enterprise. Maybe you should start up a Cultis Lake anti-business regulation board and eliminate all businesses within the park. After that you could build a ferry or 2... Am I ever glad I don't live in Cultis Lake.
-------------------- Brian Crothers CR Signs 1790 C Tamarac St. Campbell River B.C. V9W 3M6 briancrothers@crsigns.ca Posts: 82 | From: Campbell River B.C. Canada | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Our town had an ordinance against them until we were invited in participating in a rewrite of our sign ordinances a few years back.
I understand where the "anti" crowd comes from. I've seen a lot of "UGLY" sandwich boards and so had they. What we had to do was come up with an ordinance that controlled "beauty" without doing so directly. The result was to come up with a "appropriateness" clause. In other words, was the sign design appropriate for it's environment and/or surroundings. The basic thought was that a sign design had to be appropriate for the period that the building was constructed. Designs had to be approved by the appropriate review committee. So far, I've been pleased with their efforts.
posted
Hey Dan At last, a kindred spirit...I have longly and loudly proclaimed my avowed intent to rid our downtown of every piece of plastic crap and ratty a-frames before I go to that big panel jam in the sky...to this end , with the recent amalgamation of three towns into one city, my wife and partner and boss{she really does wear all hats cause she is the one with the smarts} is on the local sign committee,which has started by rewriting the sign bylaw into something useful, and then doing a complete inventory of all commercial signage inthe city, carried out by guess who. Kenora is a city that can't quite make up its mind what it is...mill town, railroad town, gov't town or tourist destination. We are on the shore of Lake of the Woods, with a gorgeous harbour,a Victorian/Edwardian downtown hiding behind a lot of 50's facades. An effort by a group of downtown merchants, aided by the city administration, is endeavouring to do something significant, as is a group called Kenora in Bloom...flowers, doncha know... and they proposed building a couple of gateway signs at either end of town... to this end they staged a contest for the design. I don't usually...hell, I never!...enter these things, but this time we decided to do so, wanting to insure that whatever went up looked decent...my my, what an ego...we won the contest, and offered to provide the design, fabrication and installation for FREE, if the committee and the city would help us find some donors for the material...it worked and the city is going to have some pretty decent welcoming signage at last. Now all we have to do is the rest of the place! As you may have guessed, I don't do no vinyl...farm it when I need it, and my apologies to all the people out there what do illuminated stuff. Our slogan is "If it holds still long enough, we'll paint it." Keep on keepin' on!
-------------------- Murray MacDonald OldTime Signs 529 Third Ave S Kenora, ON. P9N 1Y3 oldtimesigns@gokenora.com Posts: 781 | From: Kenora, ON | Registered: Jan 2003
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It sounds like we could have a lively debate on the merrits of various types of signs and their effective use.
I respectfully disagree with your position.
I love creative signs. And I do support free enterprise. And I don't care much for over-regulation.
My point in this discussion was celebrating a small victory in the issue of quality and the elimination of third party signs in our little town. Signs that were not legal long before I came here. If that is evil and oppressing and anti-business, then I guess I fit the description rather well.
In my view (and the view of many others who live here) the proliferation of third party signs made the town look trashy.
I tackled the larger public signage and directories as a volunteer effort... a gift to my home town. I put my money and effort where my mouth is. And I am slowly replacing the hodgepodge of signs which were in place. The Park Board didn't have the money to set this project as a high priority. I understood that. We saw it an important issue in the success of our own and other businesses in the area. So we took on the project.
Same goes for the redevelopment of the plaza (which is owned by the park board) To have a legitimate say in the ultimate look of the commercial core, I volunteered my services to them as a designer. It's not my decision whether or not they adopt my ideas but I enjoy the fact that I can stimulate discussion and have some input to the final plan.
The ultimate goal is to have quality, sustainable businesses thriving throughout the community. Something many businesses are having trouble with as the town looks presently.
I know from experience that quality buildings and signage are key ingredients to success in a tourist town. (You may be familiar with the little town of Chemainus on Vancouver Island where we fought this same fight many years ago. We were sucessful there and business increased dramatically. I lived and had a number of businesses there for over 18 years.)
(And for the record, I cheered last week when those miserable failures called fast cats were sold off last week for what they were really worth )
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8766 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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I know Kenora (did a mural there a number of years ago) I'll look for your new signs the next time I pass through!
That place has a ton of potential especially with all the visitors that pass through in the summer months!!
Good luck in your efforts!
Glenn
quote:In other words, was the sign design appropriate for it's environment and/or surroundings.
This is what we are fighting for exactly!
-dan
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8766 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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