Been in the sign trade for 10 years now. 5 years at Joe Gerard Signs in Costa Mesa, California and the last 5 years job hopping from a-hole boss to a-hole boss here in Alberta, Canada. I have had my own Summa d-60 24" cutter and software for 2 1/2 years now and am FINALLY FED UP with taking orders from the boss. I CAN DO THE JOB BETTER MYSELF! LEAVE ME ALONE! HOW DO YOU STAY IN BUSINESS WITH PRACTICES AND QUALITY LIKE THAT?! I KNOW I AM BUT A HUMBLE LITTLE EMPLOYEE BUT "MY CUSTOMERS" @ SignCONCEPTS WOULD NOT LET ME GET AWAY WITH WHAT YOU'RE DOING!
O.K. enuf! My problem is how? How do some peolpe make it look so easy to go off on there own. Now, I admit, 2 1/2 years ago MY busioness what alot less stable than it is now however, I feel the need still for that guaranteed paycheck. I do no selling and have a 1/4page ad in my small city's yellow pages(pop. 20,000) and make $700- $2000 a month on top of my employer(guaranteed check). I would think that if I freed up 48 extra hours a week that I would have NO PROBLEM goin' it alone. My wife and I have "FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN" and she even mentioned me getting a p/t job at TIMMY'S or something like that to make ends meet.(you Canadian's know what Timmy's is). I don't want a boss though and the extra time pouring coffee for some schmuck who's just gonna spill it on himself on his way to HIS employeers business would be taking time away from what I want to do...being my own boss.
Funds are low, gas is up. I am just not sure if this is the right time...FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN. I want it to be the right time but, like when I left my parents, I KNEW IT WAS THE RIGHT TIME.
Back to my question... WHEN DID YOU KNOW IT WAS THE RIGHT TIME TO LEAVE THE NEST? ANY GOOD/ HORROR STORIES???
posted
Hi Corey...I am by no means the expert on making it look easy to be on your own. (that's the Canadians job) It isn't always easy! At times it is downright hard work. But to answer your question...When did I know it was time to leave the nest...? I was working at the drugstore as their signpainter. I knew it was time to leave when I started making more money doing side jobs. Lettering boats...walls....etc. It was a great feeling walking down the stairs and out the door. But it was also a scary type of excitment. It is definately a roller coaster ride. You just have to jump aboard and hold on tight.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN... You'll probably always have a little of that. All you can do is continue to try to improve your skills, all of them. Not only your artistic or layout and design skills, but skills like bookkeeping, communicating with customers and clients... being on time and making your product in an efficient manner. That does not mean cheap and tacky.
You will improve all of these things and all the while, trends and circumstances outside of your world will change... the price of gas - power - phone - garbage will go up. Housing costs and rent will change, you can't control all of these things.
When I was working full time in a non-related business and operating a sign business part time, it was very easy for me to think that if I could work as hard for myself as I was working for my employer... a full time business would be a piece of cake. Not exactly true. There are lots of things to consider and those things will always change and always stay the same... make sense?
FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN will change to "becoming comfortable with the unknown". Be flexible and go forward.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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Be ignorant, like me! I retired from the military, 2 years ago to start a sign shop. I can make the product, but I had no idea what I was getting into by running my own shop, so we're learning as we go along. Kind of a do or die,(or get a "real" job) situation. I know that in the long scheme of things it will work out, it always has, so I just continue to work my ass off and make this work.
Just remain ignorant, its workin here!
-------------------- "B0LT" on the chat room thing.
posted
Simple answer: As soon as you have "the balls" to quit fearing the unknown, and realize that YOU CAN do what you are about to set out to accomplish....that's when it's time to leave the nest. I guess that boils down to having the necessary confidence in yourself, and your ability, and the will and determination to succeed.
Realize too, that not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur. You have to have the courage to make that "leap of faith", in order to become your own boss and the master of your own destiny. If the "comfort level" of having a steady and regular source of income is more important to you, then perhaps you're just not ready. That's sort of like when you learn to ride a bike using training wheels. Sooner or later they'll have to come off if you really want to have genuine freedom to go wherever you wish.
One thing I would strongly advise is to have a definite business plan, and a source of "business operating capital" available. Most businesses fail during the first year because of being underfunded to start with.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
I say go ahead and try to expand the amount of work you have at home, while keeping your other job. But put more and more focus on your own business, until you get so busy that you HAVE to quit you other job (give 2 weeks notice). This way you just get busier and busier, and it takes away all the fear factor. I guess this solution is more fluent, and less black and white as the option of quiting one thing to start another. If your making what you said, on the side, then you're already half way there. Good luck !!
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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1. A self employed type of person stuck at working for someone else.
2. Someone who gives a damn about what you put out, but your boss is just looking for the money out of all this and could care less about the quality.
3. You need to get the hell out of there and strike out on your own. It must be killin' you to stay there. I know how it is, you get the feeling like "man, what the hell am I doing here?" Believe me, I know.
I think you'll be alright. I am on my own now and it's rough, but I am making it. What the hard part is that you have to now pay the house bills with only YOUR income.
I am the same way. I have been self employed before for 5 years (not signs) but now I'm doing signs full time now after getting laid off from my last job. I was doing signs on the side,and building my biz to go on my own, so when I got laid off it was actually the best thing to happen. Now the sign deal has to work now!
I took a part time job with a customer/friend and that will help us out for slow times. That would be something you could look into, not in the sign biz though, my friend owns a carpet cleaning company and have been working with him some nights steam cleaning offices, and have been gaining some new potential clients out of the deal. Always look for oportunity.
If you not completly sure, I would wait a little longer and try to give your side biz a good marketing push to build it up a little more and then go for it.
You are the self employed type stuck at a job that your full potential is being limited. Use YOUR passion and drive to work for the one who gives a damn . . YOU!
-------------------- Tony Broussard Graphic Details Digital Media Loreauville, LA Posts: 395 | From: Loreauville, LA | Registered: Jul 1999
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WOW! POSITIVE INCENTIVE! Some REALLY POWERFUL, positive comments here. Exactly what I need and exactly how I am feeling.
It feels kinda like that motivation you get right after an AMWAY MEETING (ok, I went 12 years ago).....except for that there is a REAL opportunity for success!!!
posted
the first 3-5 years i did accounting in the morning and cleaned banks at night to help pay for my sign business...i knew absolutely nothing! never had made a sign in my life...i loved art and being creative but i had much to learn (and still do)...that was 10 years ago...i left the accounting first to free up my day and then 5 years ago i left the cleaning(circumstances beyond my control)then i started a candle making business(theres a no profit business for ya)because i was afraid i couldn't fully survive on signs...then i decided to sell the candle business and focus all my attention on sign making...once i made that total committment my sales went up 60%..and just recently i bit the bullet and bought a cnc router...it's a continued struggle...i work solo 7 days a week and i never know what's around the corner. i must say i do love what i do and i work comfortably out of my home. could i make more $ being a bean counter..hell yeah but i'd be bored to tears...plus i like writing off every cool tool i want to buy..and a truck to boot...the trade offs are well worth the risk...go for it!
[ April 06, 2003, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Don't overlook the good ole canadian way. Get involved in the Entrepreneurship project offered by EI. You can collect unemployment insurance for up to one full year while building your business. During this time they assist you with business plan ('cause they think you need one) and then let you go to it. Any income you make is yours and the EI cheque comes in so you can keep the lights on and groceries coming in if there are any lean times.
-------------------- Murray MacDonald OldTime Signs 529 Third Ave S Kenora, ON. P9N 1Y3 oldtimesigns@gokenora.com Posts: 781 | From: Kenora, ON | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Corey...I'll add my encouragement also. My words of advice, since you have the practical experience at actually "doing the job", is to spend a lot of time keeping a close watch on the money flow. Watch the profits, watch what you are paying for materials, don't be afraid to charge a decent price for a decent product.
I think the biggest mistake that new entreprenuers make is opening "accounts" with suppliers and not actually looking at the costs of materials as they are purchased. Without following price increases it is very easy to fall into the trap of static pricing when material costs are rising.
Being in business for yourself is rewarding and freedom creating but requires a great deal of self-policing.
Go for it!!! And I wish you well!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
quote:i did accounting in the morning and cleaned banks at night
Are you related to the James Brothers? lol
-------------------- Mario G. Lafreniere (Fergie) J&N Signs Winter did show up! Posts: 1257 | From: Chapleau, Ontario | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
So how do you claim EI from a company that won't 'let you go' but, instead, give you the 'Forced out' feeling so you quit???? I will either get fired or quit and it is going to happen soon. Could be in 2 months...could be in 2 hours. Anybody know any tricks on how to get "let go"?
posted
tell the boss to go f&*k him/her self...that should do it...or just start coming in late everyday and take long lunches...or pretend you have terret(sp?)syndrom..in front of customers.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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You are at the toughest point of your carreer... GO or NO-GO...
Been there done that.
I worked night shift (while working day times on my new job) for 4 years at a job I hated with a fierce passion before I made the jump to light-speed (total self employment).
We had some very skinny times being self employed, having had to take back the pop bottles and going through the couch for supper money. But we never went hungry and never have missed a payment over the years.
It will not be easy, especially without a backup savings program.
But it will be more satisfying than you can imagine!
A few items of advice... Keep current on your taxes, keep current with your suppliers, pay yourself with what is left.
Enjoy and have fun with your new career!
The first 20 years I was self employed I had a smock (I had worked in a grocery store) hung behind the door in my office. Every time things got tough I would see it hanging there and instantly realize how much better off I was than before.... and feel more positive about where I was.
Good luck in your jump to light-speed!
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8741 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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I arrived on Maui with 5 yrs. signshop experience. I got part time sign work as a subcontractor. $10/hr. no benefits, no guaranteed hours. We had a Sprint IV B for cutting the copy, & did a lot of projector pounce patterns & hand cut vinyl logos. Previous experience had been all state of the art software, plotters & scanners etc. I needed more income & wanted more current technology, so I found a new printing/typesetting business just opening & they hired me full time to set-up their new sign department. (I had more sign experience then them) They had a clean new office, with cutting edge technology & promised me the world.
After quitting the part time job, I started getting the new shop set up. The owners (a couple) did not provide a desk or computer as promised, & instead wanted me to swap onto the owners typesetting & design workstation when I could pry him off it. I found an old drafting table & grabbed a light & phone so I had a base from which I found the best suppliers, drew up shop design schematics, & prepared supply & tool shopping lists to present the owners with. I was getting the beginning of a flow of sign customers, making deadline committments, & then the owner couldn't be pryed off his computer fast enough to allow me to keep my promises. I had their shop pretty well established with the production areas created & outfitted, good wholesale supply accounts & some great discounts offered through business relationships with suppliers I used during previous employment.
Anyway the terms of my employment had an initial pay rate that would be raised after 90 days. During the 90 days there was some friction due to the husband & wife's own power struggle & their mutual desire to boss me around with contradictory goals. I was guilty of expecting some of the sign department management responsability they had offered. This situation awoke the sleeping giant of my own latent neccessity for steering my own ship.
When they said they could not afford the 90 day pay raise I told them that was flat out unacceptable & to cut costs where needed but breaking a contractual agreement with me was no way to start our professional relationship.
They fired me. I didn't realize it right away, but they did me a big favor. They didn't have to lie to the employment office though. In order to cheat me out of benefits they made all kinds of accusations about punctuality & attitude problems, so I ended up living off the guitar player in my band for a while.
As an ironic footnote the previous employer, after 20 years in business, bought a new computer, scanner, plotter, & sign specific software during those 90 days I was gone. Of course he had replaced me, & that position became full time.
The silver lining was that the previous employer shared rent with a screenprinter. This guy did not print shirts, just signs & decals. Since the only signs he would do was screenprinted ones, & the other guy did everything except screenprinting they could share space without fighting over clients. The screenprinter had "borrowed" my services to handcut films & cut stuff on the IV B, so when I returned from my 90 day failure with my tail between my legs he offered to train me to screenprint, since he was getting burnt out after 20 years in the business. I had worked for him almost 6 months when his ex-wife made plans to leave the country with his son. He wanted to stay close to his son, so he offered me to buy Island Sign for 25K. I had no savings but he gave me "nothing down, no interest" terms if I could commit to $1000 a month for 25 months. I had absolutely no business experience, but we looked at the books & the existing clients doing repeat business made it look like a safe bet. I agreed on the requirement that he help me move the shop to a new location so I could expand into doing all types of signs in competition with the guy he was subleasing space from.
There were some scary months trying to cover the expenses, but it was the most exilerating experience of my life, & in many ways it still is 6 years later.
I liked a lot of comments here. One of Karyn's deserved repeating:
quote: once i made that total committment my sales went up 60%
I think you have reached the point ($700 - $2000 per month) where if self-employment is ever going to be "for you" then now is the time to go for it. I agree with you that an extra 48 hours a week is going to bump your sales, like Karyn said. I really don't think you will need a lot of time spent on sales. I have seen work & money flow like water. If you are ready & willing, it creates a cosmic vaccuum & you soak up the work you need like a sponge. Call me crazy, but whenever I take time away from the biz to do a project at home, I have just enough work to allow me to get time away for my home project. Then when I decide I need more sign income, all I do is stop working at home. The sign jobs multiply instantly. I think the less cosmic explanation would be that you selling skills to the call you already get are subconsciously geared to your needs. When you are ready for them you will sell more jobs or bigger jobs, or both.
I think it was Ken who pointed out that to make it you really need to NOT INVEST IN THE FEAR. You have to find the excitement in the fear like Cheryl said. Your wife may not be able to let go of the fear, but you will need to transform it. Go to Timmy's & try to get a smock, or a paper hat or something like Dan had hanging on the door. Remember, if your worst (biz related)fears materalize, you can still bite the bullet at that time & go back to being an employee somewhere.
posted
Made signs on the side for 15 years. Hated my old job which was giving me ulcers. Sent me to the ER twice. Then one day I walked into the boss's office and turned in a two week notice. But, the shop we were building wasn't done yet. So, about a week later, I walked BACK into the boss's office and asked for an extension. She said "you can stay as long as you want". I said, "how about two months". So, I stayed another two months....but after two months, the shop STILL wasn't quite finished
I experienced that uneasy feeling in my stomach which Mike mentioned but it sure felt different from the ulcer. That was three years ago this past October 1st. Since then I have had ZERO trouble with ulcers or indigestion....well....maybe a slight twinge a couple of times.
Wish I had quit much sooner.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Well, this Canadian didn't have it all that easy. Rough start actually.
I got 'fired' from two sign type jobs before I had the nerve to just go for it. (looong stories, lousy places to work) I wanted to learn more more more and was being held back. So when I was looking for work, I decided to go back to school for awhile while building my own biz. So I had the UI backup thank goodness!
And did I ever work HARD to be where I am now. Going to school fulltime, working in the evenings, learning on my own with library books galore in front of me in my 'spare' time. But I focused on my goal and I made it fall into place.
Your attitude will get you where you want to go if you want it bad enough. Just have a backup plan until you build up clientelle. You'll probably go without a decent wage (if any) for at least a year while you build. I spent investment money to get by and paid myself back when I could afford it.
Know exactly what you want and go after it! If we can do it, so can you.
My story is simular to many of you. I was a Trim Liner. We did graphics and pinstripes for the wholesale dealership market. During an economic slowdown, my best dealer offered me a position to "sell" service because of my ability. My family was suffering because of my lack of work. I was transfered to an undeveloped territory of 25 dealerships. So I accepted this position. I stayed there seven years, and did graphics on the side. When our son graduated, I knew I could'nt stay there because I was using all my vacation days to do lettering jobs. Finally I jumped ship and this time am a much better business man and money manager. Today, we have a retail spot on the hottest piece of highway in Michigan. We have a full time design artist and an office manager. Oh yea, I'm there too to sell and manage customer service. As a side note, I love this website!
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3496 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I cannot relate to anything more than this post. I've been making "stuff" on the side for 10 years now and doing signs for the past 2 years. My full time job is sales for my family's company. It's a pretty good job with all the trappings of a decent sales rep. Company car, decent income for my area, etc. etc. But.....My heart is just not totally committed to it. I've always been driven to do my own thing. Learned to carve/etch glass about 10 years ago,which evolved into making furnature to display it. Sandblasting glass evolved into sandblasting wood and making signs, and two years ago I bought a CNC router because I could see its potential as an outlet for my drive to ... "make stuff" I guess I would be classified under self taught. I see something I want to do or envision it and consume every book, every piece of information I can get my hands on to get me from point A to point B. My skills are finally becoming refined enough that people other than friends or family are seeking me out to pay me good money to tackle their project. I read this website everyday, and am planning to go to Indy to meet Ray Chapman and take his class at the end of this month. I cannot stress enough how much I love it. I spend my days getting excited about my evening and weekend projects and and trying to figure out a way to devote full time energy to it with the least amount of pain/fear associated with "leaving the nest". I've got a double whammy because I'm not sure my father would understand, me being the heir to the business and all. If I worked for anyone else I'd probably be gone by now. One bonus is my father in-law has been a signmaker for 25 years and he's all but said "take my business." I don't know. Rock and a hard place I guess. The plan now seems to be chug along as long as I can and accumulate all the equipment,savings, and clients it would take to make the decision less painful. Any suggestions would be appreciated
Bill
-------------------- Bill Jarvis Rookie432@AOL.com
"A customer is someone who deals with you. A GOOD customer is someone who refuses to deal with anyone else." Posts: 81 | From: Cambridge, Ohio, USA | Registered: Oct 2000
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![[Wink]](wink.gif)
It isn't always easy! At times it is downright hard work. But to answer your question...When did I know it was time to leave the nest...? I was working at the drugstore as their signpainter. I knew it was time to leave when I started making more money doing side jobs. Lettering boats...walls....etc. It was a great feeling walking down the stairs and out the door. But it was also a scary type of excitment. It is definately a roller coaster ride. You just have to jump aboard and hold on tight.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
So, about a week later, I walked BACK into the boss's office and asked for an extension. She said "you can stay as long as you want". I said, "how about two months". So, I stayed another two months....but after two months, the shop STILL wasn't quite finished ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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