posted
Gotta agree with Mike on this one. In the "Real World" most of us are dealing with crappy files. We seldom are using "perfect" files. It would make sense to know what a "not-so-great" file is gonna print out like.
Mike, have you looked into the "Matan" printers? They are higher priced, but work off of a 36" wide continuous foil like the Edge. The machine has 4 seperate heads and hold all the ribbons at once. It's pretty impressive to see. I've sent them a file and they've sent me back sample prints and even went as far as printing out my same file at a show for me.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 912 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Doesn't matter what you print with, crap in equals crap out. Whether you deal with customers that supply crappy files or not.
I see Jims position to a point, I did not see Mikes file nor am a file judge but what we have here is a "dual" between the maxx and the DC3 and the machine will print what it is given to print. So If it were you that had to put your best foot forward, would you wear your best clothes or put on your less than best.
No machine will produce miracles! So maybe we need to work with our customers to produce better files and make a nice additional profit to boot.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I get the impression Jim is looking for a print 'trophy' that he can use to wow at trade shows. Your file may well provide that. 'Sorry' thats not what I provided, nor is it what I'm looking for.
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
posted
Give it to him Mike! What a cop out! Jim just look at some of my work I've done on the edge, in almost all of these Jobs, the Music trailer included, just check out the portfolio page, all those images, the guitars, the drums. the amps, All of them were scanned in on a cheap canoscan scanner, from the Customers Brochures, that's it! there were no high resolution, color corrected, digital files to work with, so we had to use what was supplied. Like Mike said get off the Horse, most large fomat prints that we use are for exterior use on vehicles. And I never had a customer say anything about the color being off on any job I have ever done.
So excuse me for being taken aback on your attack on Mikes files, I for one don't know much about the Technical side of Digital printing, or all the Jargon that goes with it, All I know is that I can scan, adjust in photoshop, if need be the sharpness and color, and print away on the Edge without to much hassle, with great results.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I forgot to show my tongue in my cheek Jim, so don't take my comments personaly, or to seriously. And I do have my Asbestos thong on as we speak.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Jim, I'm not sure if I need a DC3 at the moment, but I'd definintly like a print of Bob's classic design. & you never know, I just may need to expand with an equipment purchase, so chalk me up for a sample print too in the interest of getting the word out on some new equipment I've been hearing about, but have not been shown.
For a sample of Bob's file, please send an e-mail to davep@summa.us. Dave's taking the point to assure no one is left out.
Mike, and supporters of Mike's position -
The irony is not lost on me that all have expressed that "this is what it's like in the real world" while at the same time criticizing me for merely requesting something from the real world.
This thread heated up when Tony posited that it'd swell if we printed a file that Bob Rochon created. Not knowing what Bob's image was, I said we'd be happy to print it and provide samples to all. Bob -- with nothing in it for him -- has gone to exceptional lengths to get permission and transfer the file to us. I'm not afraid of printing "real world" work, and especially wish to thank Bob for his participation and hard efforts. You da man Bob!
Mike (alone),
Call it my high horse if you will. But the file you sent looks bad, by design. Hence the more accurately our printer reproduces what is actually in your file the worse our printing looks. Sorry, we don't do that, even if it means losing you as a prospective client.
Regards,
Jim
PS: when scanning preprinted photos (copyrights notwithstanding) load the image in the scanner at an angle ... that can help to reduce moire so less blurring is needed to eliminate it.
-------------------- Jim Doggett General Manager, USA Yellotools, Ltd www.yellotools.com Posts: 500 | From: Sherman, TX USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Mike, out of Curiosity, is'nt some of that file you requested Jim to do, is that a Ricoh Test? If it is, It should be good enough for a test print.. Gidyup Jim! Heh Heh
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I've had my Summa sample for some time now, & wonder if anyone who got one also got the Maxx2 print? The only request I made for the sample was earlier in this thread. Maybe I should ask Jon directly. Since he seemed to jump right on the idea of a challenge, I guess I thought he would follow through with getting prints out to those who requested it.
I'll go ask him now, but anyone here get one already?
posted
Boy did I jump into this late. While Jim and Jon (and anyone from Matan?) are printing, I'd like to formally request a sample of each as well. We are currently looking into a nice fill between our Scotchprint 2000 (52" print width) and the Edge 1 (11.875"). I guess the challenge is on. Also, have there been other "head to head" comparisons on manufactuer specs. as well? Print speed, materials costs, etc. should factor into all this as well.
-------------------- Scott Pagan Admark Graphic Systems Admark Motorsports Graphics 9700 Metromont Ind Blvd Charlotte, NC 28269 www.admarkgraphics.com Posts: 325 | From: Charlotte, NC | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Okay--Jon and I are fresh back from ISA. Sorry Jim, never did hook up with you at the Summa booth!
Anyways (maybe this isn't such a wise idea) but let's resurrect this MAXX2 vs DC3 thing! I saw the Summa running at the show, and it looked good.
So, let's drop all the problems with Mike's files BS. Let's get Bob's files on CD, we can both run them, I'll send some to Jim, Jim can send some to me, and we'll get them out to you guys!
In a way, I can understand Jim's hesitations to print a file. I know what you guys mean about getting crappy files from your customers---let's not go there. I get 'sub-standard' files all the time for sample requests , and believe me, it doesn't make you feel too good to crank something out, even if it is the file's fault and not my machine's fault. So, instead of beating on Jim and possibly Jon and I, let's all work together and try and help some of you guys make a good informed decision that's going to allow you to make the right decision for your shop. I know Jon and I want you to be successful so you buy more stuff, and I'm sure Jim does too!
I will touch base with Jon tonite to see if we did indeed receive Bob R's file on CD. If not, could you please make arrangements to get it to me Bob?
posted
Dear vendors, I also requested the samples that were offered to all who were interested. To date I have not received anything. Is there some other criteria that one has to fulfill to get these. Perhaps there is some screening on who is a "real" potential buyer rather than a curious "tire kicker". We purchased the first MAXX delivered in the U.S about 4 years ago. After two years it wasn't up to par and Gerber did the "right thing" and worked out a fair resolution. Because of that I have not given up on Gerber and consider them a Top Notch company. Wide format outdoor durable, above average resolution printing is a future purchase for our company...the offer to provide test samples seemed genuine...are you guys serious?
-------------------- Tony Lucero Eagle Graphics Waterford, MI www.eaglegph.com Posts: 305 | From: Waterford, MI, USA | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
To date, we have not receieved the file in question from Bob Rochon. I don't have an FTP site at my disposal, so he had agreed to Fedex a CD to me. If I don't see a post from him by the end of the day, I will give him a call.
For the record, I would be pleased to get Mike O'Neil's "ugly" file printed, but seem to be having a tough time getting that file, as well.
Also for the record, no-one is more upset than me with the fact that those of you who want to compare Gerber MAXX2 prints with Jimmy D's are still waiting on MAXX2 prints. As soon as I have Bob's file, we will start "production".
[ April 11, 2003, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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With regards to "tire-kicking", I don't have a problem with that----you never know where tire-kicking may lead someday. If we do a good sample for you and get it to you (& others) it definitely keeps our offerings in the front of your mind.
That said, remember that we "vendors" are no different than any of you-----hundreds of things to do, and not nearly enough time to do it----sounds almost like a sign shop doesn't it?? Before going to ISA, I know that Jon and I had alot on our plates, and I'm sure that 'Summa JD' did too! Jon and I weren't off the plane 48 hours before we were doing seminars on Thursday to our Toronto customers (3 sessions!) to report on the ISA show.
So, again, let's get these Bob and Mike files to both Summa and ND, give us some time, and we'll print them.
Once the files are rec'd, Jon or I will post here---samples can be requested.
posted
I got my Summa sample a few weeks back and the quality is fantastic. The gradients and the feathered shadows came out great, (they printed my logo) very smooth.
If I had the cash today I'd buy one tomorrow.
-------------------- Tony Broussard Graphic Details Digital Media Loreauville, LA Posts: 395 | From: Loreauville, LA | Registered: Jul 1999
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quote: Also for the record, no-one is more upset than me with the fact that those of you who want to compare Gerber MAXX2 prints with Jimmy D's are still waiting on MAXX2 prints. As soon as I have Bob's file, we will start "production".
Jon, glad to hear you are still up for the challenge. I'm sitting in my first home typing this post remembering the day I came here kicking the tires (thinking I was teaching myself "househunting skills" for the distant future when I thought I'd really be able to hunt)So, as Ted says, you never know where it will lead.
quote: So, again, let's get these Bob and Mike files to both Summa and ND, give us some time, and we'll print them.
Once the files are rec'd, Jon or I will post here---samples can be requested.
Forget Mike's file. Why muddy the waters beating a dead horse. A file has been agreed upon by 2 or 3 different representatives of digital print/cut technology. Summa already recieved the file in question & has sent copies around the continent. I'd say the ball's in Gerbers court. And since this has been delayed anyway, how about you Howard? lets see what Graphtec can do here as well!
On March 7th Bob wrote:
quote: CD's are burned, they have .tiff, .psd, and for Jon I even have the .plt files. I need to get some padded envelopes tonight at Staples and they will be in tomorrows mail.
It seems Jim got his CD. Hopefully ND will too, & we will soon be invited to provide our address's & see the results of the competition. At that time it would be great to have actual material costs & production times compared as well.
Jimmy D has the advantage of having an FTP site, so he didn't have to wait for the CD.
I'm not ready to forget Mike's file...because that is what Mike wants to see.
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I am writing from my bunker in Iraq, the bombing has been heavy and internet goes down on a moments notice............
Nahhh I'm just a procrastinating unorganized but head who needs his ass kicked hard. Jon my whole hearted appologies.
I tried to e-mail the file this morning before I went to the cape on a job. I had no luck I tried sending the files attached to an e-mail right from the cd, didnt go so I'll be home tomorrow afternoon, and I can use the dsl connection to try again. I will try to copy them to the pc first then send em Jon.
Fedex is not near me anymore but hey thats no excuse, I could have tied them to a snail and had em there by now.
Sorry for being an ass
I cant wait to see the print form the maxx as well.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
, and believe me, it doesn't make you feel too good to crank something out, even if it is the file's fault and not my machine's fault. So, instead of beating on Jim and possibly Jon and I, let's all work together and try and help some of you guys make a good informed decision that's going to allow you to make the right decision for your shop. I know Jon and I want you to be successful so you buy more stuff, and I'm sure Jim does too!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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