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Can I get some oppinions on investing in the Edge? What are some hints, good and bads, personal feelings, etc. Should a referbished be the way to go?
-------------------- Don Klaumann Don's Signs Hebron, NE Posts: 21 | From: Hebron, Ne. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Don what kind of signage do you do? If its large signage like cars , walls , banners etc. I would head for a large format printer just like we have. Its smaller work that you do then probaly the edge.
-------------------- Greg Baker Sign City 14 Milton Circuit Port Macquarie NSW 2444 signcity1@bigpond.com Posts: 48 | From: australia | Registered: Oct 2002
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Find a local source of purchasing edge prints at wholsale prices. If you can do this, start designing more often with the edge capabilities, & selling more with the edge capabilities in mind. You will get a better feel for how much of the products that you can sell that require the edge. Of course when (not if) you get your own edge, you will use it as the easier way to do lots of stuff you can already do, but if you increase a demand within your own existing & future market base for digitally printed products, you will be less afraid to take the financial plunge, & you will already have repeat customers whoose work will suddenly become MUCH more profitable for you.
I sold prints I bought from a competitor for over 3 years before I got my own system. Not the best plan for everyone, but I had DIGITAL PRINTING offered in my yellow page ad, & displayed on my shop sign & truck long before I even had good enough credit to buy an edge. By the time my yearly wholesale edge print purchases went up from $1000/year to $4000/year I was ready to buy my edge2 & envision plotter (brand new would be my choice) & it started paying for itself very quickly at that point.
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I just wrote a reply to this and lost it somehow. So here goes again: I suggest you look in the Search Forum of this board, this topic has been extensively covered, even recently.Type in a few pertinent words and in an hour you will still be reading.
I think Doug hits the nails directly on the head about how to ease into selling Edge work, especially if you lean towards buying all new equipment.
My experience is that I bought a used Edge and would not regret it ever. It makes my work more varied and therefore the perceived value goes up and so does the price. I have had the luxury to use it's output to either make my production life easier with printing rather than cut vinyl (especially tiny letters), I can quickly produce better looking multicolor vinyl images, or scan and print logos or graphics, etc....I say all this to make you start thinking of how you can use it every day as you produce your regular work. I call it a luxury because since the equipment only cost an arm, and I still have both legs, I don't have the pressure to sell Edge work in any way other than what comes naturally by making my service to my customers more varied. My Edge more than makes it's monthly paymentbwith no effort, and after that it just makes me money, because I mention other things I can do when they come to pick up their work, upsell just like McDonald's (do you want fries with that?)
I use the thermal module of Signlab E6 - it's quite fabulous and so there is no need for buying Omega software.
One word of caution: Gerber eliminated its Service Contract program last month for the really old Edges (like mine, a Trunnion). I would call them before making a decision, to see which models are included. I slept better the year I had the contract.
Start reading, and you will find a wealth of information on the topic, hope this is a little of the info you wanted, when it comes to a used Edge.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I did like Doug too, used a shop here that owns 3 Edges and sells wholesale, to do my printing, until I felt confident enough to take the plunge myself.
I bought my Edge to do a certain amount of dekal work to compliment a companys vehicle livery and general signage, and also to enhance the vehicle work we were already doing with airbrush fades etc, felt I could achieve similar results faster, with the Edge, I also wanted to use it for some of my dimensional signage.
I chose not to buy new I bought a used Edge, completely refurbished with new print head etc , and am very happy with it.
I use my Omega software to drive it and my old Gerber Sprint for contour cutting and a Summa SignPro T plotter for our main cutting work.
Its been a smooth transition into digital printing without the worry of how many jobs can I get for that now, and I am not lumbered with huge monthly payments.
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I'd consider a PC 600, which has worked well for me. It cost about 1/3 of the edge and doesnt require expensive software to run. Its all 22.75 inches wide, and a much higher resolution.
Most comparisons of ribbon cost compare sq ft cost, which is deceiving because you must use all 11.75 inches of ribbon for the edge vs. using only what you need for the pc600 (much less wasted ribbon)
My site has a bunch of sample trucks done with it - click on the portfolio button, and then vehicle advertising.
"Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies. But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be." - Rush Posts: 1192 | From: Washington, NJ | Registered: Feb 1999
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Dan is right. It is tough to campare foil usage between the two machines. Maybe this will help. The Gerber Edge always consumes all of the foils 11.8" of width. If you had a job to print one spot blue on white decal 1"x11" you would use 1"x11.8" of the foil. The spot cartridge contains 150' of foil. At a list price of $97.50 it costs you $.65/lin ft or $.055/lin in. Nobody pays list price and nobody prints a job like the this hypothetical one.
The PC 600 has higher resolution and can print wider prints. The EDGE will print faster and can print longer prints. So, not only are consumables an important consideration but also what your output is being used for. No doubt Dan's stuff wouldn't look as nice if printed on an Edge.
Dan, not that you would, but hypotheticaly, what would the foil cost be (at Roland list price) to print one solid spot red rectangle 11"x48"?
[ January 04, 2003, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Brian Snyder ]
-------------------- Brian Snyder Sign Effectz Woodbridge, New Jersey Posts: 723 | From: Woodbridge, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Good Q' Brian - I really dont know. I'd imagine 2 sets of 6 cartridges (CMY) at $15 each, or 2 cartridges (spot) at about $19 each. I rarely use spot colors, so I'm not sure of the price.
Speed demon its not.
But I forgot to mention the print and cut feature, which at last saves the time of using one machine to print and another to cut. The thing prints in the background, and frankly speed is not a factor because its not running all day. If it were, I suppose I'd consider another machine.
Check this months SignCraft on using the machine to do some cool t-shirts. I assume Edge can do it too.
"Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies. But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be." - Rush Posts: 1192 | From: Washington, NJ | Registered: Feb 1999
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No one has addressed the cutting issue...? One of Graphtec's most successful configurations is: the Edge or Maxx printers (thermal resin), a wider format inkjet such as the Encad, HP or other, certainly Omega; and a Graphtec 5100 appropriately sized to the wider printer to do all the cutting. Works well. hk
-------------------- Howard Keiper Independent Contractor Benicia, Ca. thekeip@comcast.net
Should you invest in the Edge? Hell if I know, that answer will be up to you. Ther are a lot of variables to consider.
I did, and haven't been sorry yet. We do a lot of truck lettering, airbrushing, multicolor jobs anyway so the edge was a tool that helped us do a lot of the work we already had a lot faster & more profitable.
The size issue was never one, It's funny how people think a seam at 11.8 is a big deal. On the one occasion where a customer did have a problem, we had a shop near by do the job on the maxx. Which was nice, same foils, same software. as far as dpi, we just frinted a job at 600 dpi gerber tone photo, same job posted in the portfolio section. If you need more resolution than that, then step back my son your sniffing the print.
And that is only on 4 color prints, the spot color option is awesome and the edge has a vast selection of colors for it never mind the available media to print on.
As far as the print/cut option, My theory on any machine that is all in one. is You can be sure only one portion will break someday and usually disable the other as well. Not to mention while my cutter is doing its job the printer is doing another job.
I'd hate to be paying my cutter to stand by and watch the printer print. The edge is faster by far which translates into more profit. I would buy an edge2 if your budget would allow, newer technology and will be supported longer than the edge 1.
Oh well I've blown my horn so I hope this helps, let us know how you decide.
[ January 04, 2003, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Thanks Dan. $38.00 in foil to print a 11"x48" solid spot red rectangle with the PC600. $2.60 in foil to print the same with the EDGE.
Having a seperate printer and cutter is a plus for me. The slower the printer the more I'd want this feature. As I type this I'm printing 33' of vinyl on the EDGE and cutting 25' of vinyl on the cutter. When they are both finished I'll transfer the printed vinyl over to the cutter and cut that. I don't use the machines all day either but the difference between working for 1 hour or 3 hours is important to me.
Again, it depends on what you are doing with the machine. I'm not trying to promote or bash either machine just point out the facts. I've often thought about having BOTH the PC600 AND the Edge.
-------------------- Brian Snyder Sign Effectz Woodbridge, New Jersey Posts: 723 | From: Woodbridge, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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No contest here.. the Edge outperforms period. Like Rob said look in the portfolio section, look up his truck lettering job, look at the music trailer job I did, and see if the resolution is good enough, and then imagine how much and how long it would take to print that. And no I'm no beta tester.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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I have had a PC-60 for about 5 years and got an Edge a few months ago. I think they both have their place. The PC-60 has never given me any trouble, but the higher foil cost always prevented me from doing any large decals. I never did small decals in quantities of more than 100-200. I did find that 0-nine foils worked as well as OEM and cost aprox. 40% less. The extra dpi is nice but really not necesary for me. When I show a customer an Edge print I hold it up for them to see before they get close enough to sniff it( a good 1st impression makes it easier to expain "all those dots"). I actually only use the Roland for cutting vinyl. The ability to cut on scraps and up to 22.5" wide are the only real advantages of the PC-60 as far as I'm concerned. I have already done a lot more print work with my Edge in 6 months than I did in 5 years with the Roland. My 1st job was over $1200 in short term graphics on a van and they want me to do another one in the spring. I bought the PC-60 because that's all I could afford at the time and I'm not sorry I did. However, the Edge is a better investment with it's expanded versatility over the Roland IMO. Marketing prints you source elsewhere is not a bad Idea. Unless you have a background in digital color printing, the learning curve to get started can be pretty steep(looked more like a wall to me at times ). If you make the jump be sure to let existing customers of all the things you can do for them that they are currently sourcing elsewhere. Too many times I have met with a long time customer for a project and found they aquired things from competitors only because they didn't know I could supply them. I am still learning! Hope this helps.
-------------------- Dan Vanderknaap Atlantic Autographics Scoudouc NB Posts: 43 | From: Moncton,New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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The big issue that no one is mentioning regarding the PC-600 is the level of service you will receive. There is none. I have had my PC-600 for 10 months (actually got it with a bad head straight from the factory). Still have not gotten a single print. I have also gotten no help except them asking 1,000 times is color correction turned off. Before buying anything do the research in many places. You will not find bad info about the PC-600 as I did not either before I bought mine. I do not know why this is but, it is not that way anymore. If you want a true account of how Roland support helps go to my website and read my story that is still being updated to this day as I try to work with this awful machine. By the way instead of offering help, Roland offered to buy my machine back after 10 months of arguing with them. They will give me the full price I paid for it. Unfortunately, my business loan with my bank will not allow me to sell it.
posted
okay, getting away from Roland vs. EDGE and back to what Don was asking.....
The EDGE is a great machine Don---I've run one for 10+ years and would never go without it. That said, I like Doug's advice to start your digital business by growing it thru outsourcing initially. Yes, you will be paying someone else's trade mark-up, but you also won't be scrambling to cover your nut on the machine----face it, New or Used, you're looking at over $500/month just for the EDGE.
So, where is your business at now? Start-up? Established? One of the big things with the EDGE is time-savings. Alot of people considering "taking the plunge" think going digital means pretty pictures, vehicle wraps, $900 4x8 signs, etc---that's not the case! Sure, you might be able to do a black and red cut vinyl job on a white truck for a little less material wise than printing it on the EDGE, but wouldn't you rather go home at 6 pm intead of 10pm??? Print the black on the red, cut it once, weed it once, mask it once, apply it once---no laying up!
Also, take the time to look at the MATERIALS STREAM for the EDGE----it's not just a white vinyl printer. Print on coloured and metallic vinyls----print metallics in your designs. Print directly to MAG stock and cut it to shape. Print on HOLOGRAPHIX shiny polyester for cool effects. Offer your customers more than a sticker or a sign---offer them an identity program---an EDGE can do that for your company!
Go new---go used? Well, there's nothing wrong with a good used machine if it's been refurbished correctly. That said, I know there's great financing deals and packages including cutters and start-up packages of foils up here north of the border----check with your local distributor and see what they can do for you.
By the way, check out the possibility of LEASING the machine. Going used may preclude this, where a new machine might open a whole new avenue of capital expenditure tax breaks and all....read TAX WRITE-OFF...
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Ditto to Doug! That's how we started. We now have the Edge with no regrets. The only thing I will say is that you better have it moving to pay for it. It's a bummer to make a payment when it's idle.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3486 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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The Edge is the industry staple for a reason. 6,000 happy owners in the United States. True the Roland has sold more (on price only)but now there are aprox 9,000 dissatisfied Roland customers.
The Edge outperforms the Roland hands down, everytime. I've sold both (sorry again, to everyone I got involved with roland)and when it came time for me to purchase one of my own, it was a no brainer.
-------------------- Jeff Garst Garst Signs Ct Posts: 19 | From: CT | Registered: Mar 2003
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What are some hints, good and bads, personal feelings, etc. Should a referbished be the way to go?
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