posted
Thanks to all who have replied to my first post.
First of all I understand the concept of needing the capital for the startup. My wife who has a background in business admin as well as accounting is the one pushing me the hardest to do this. She has decided to take out the loan for the intitial investment herself if I will do all of the other footwork and homework. How much I will need remains to be discovered at this time. She has a secure job at this time but wants to turn this into a family operation eventually but she has offered to do the business end for me if I do the work.
The digital/CNC idea is mine. I can do miraculous things with vinyl but have not blasted anything in a while personally. Where I work now they shy away from HDU pretty much due to personal preferences of their own. I on the other hand have dabbled with carving the stuff an find it to be something I want to explore in depth. I have much woodworking experience as well as fabrication experience with metal, plexiglass, Komatex, etc. I also want to experiment with combining different media possibly using stained glass in some projects. I have a wealth of ideas that my present employer does not seem the least interested in. To answer the question about the failing business I work for now, I can only say that the business is not being properly promoted. We do zero advertising except for a small Yellow Page ad. Change is not welcome there either. They are from the"old school" so to speak and do not take the time to keep up with the trends. Turnaround time with the sandblasted signs is awful. Two to four weeks is the norm and sometime longer. Don't get me wrong here though as the workmanship and attention to detail is amazing and we turn out some real gems. But since I run the vinyl department I cannot get them to try different things with the sandblasted signs. I really wish things were different there, I really do. I am busting at the seams wanting to explore different styles and techniques which is my main reason for wanting to go out on my own where I have no limits on my abilities or ideas.
Can somebody give me a ball park figure on how much capital I am going to need for this adventure as well as advice on which areas to focus on while getting started? I have been doing signwork off and on for about seven years collectively and I have the computer skills as well. I have learned all I know from hands on experience. I started out working for a company cutting dimensional lettering and graphics from Gatorfoam in the mid 80's. I can do laminating as well as most any phase of woodworking. I could list more talents/experienc but nuff said about that. I feel that the time is right for me to do this and I'm going to do this somehow or another. I love doing sign work. It appeals to my creative side emmensely. Ever read "Do What You Love And The Money Will Follow"? I'm reading it now and I am pumped up for this.
Thanks again ladies and gentlmen for your input, ecouragement, insight and shared experience.
Rick
-------------------- Rick Haywood High Country Signs Waynesville, NC Posts: 12 | From: Waynesville, NC | Registered: Mar 2003
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A few thoughts. If your employer is so unmotivated, maybe he would not be threatened if you discussed getting into CNC stuff (or digital) on the side. Keep working for him for a while, & start getting your self set up at the same time if you can pull this off. Maybe offer to spend some time doing sales work off the clock (like you will for yourself anyway) & try to sell CNC or digital. If you make sales (weather or not the leg work was with his blessings) since it may have various elements beyond what you are set up for, offer to run the job through his business, but with the CNC or digital work subbed out to you. This may be far fetched but it seems like keeping your job, while investing in equipment, training yourself to use it in the evenings, & getting out beginning to sell yourself & the new capabilities you have.
If this idea above is not an option, or of no interest, my other suggestion is start up the company as another vinyl based shop. Maybe with digital too, since that is a logical extension of a vinyl shop, & relys on the same supplies & tools your vinyl shop would have, as well as the skills you already have, plus embelishments of your current sign design skills.
Since you don't have the CNC skill, or the market established yet, that idea as a main focus sounds like a suicide of sorts to me.
For as little as $15,000.00 you could get sign supplies, computer, plotter & software. Like others have said, get going on awesome signs for your building, showroom, & truck. If you can be one of the few in your area selling digital signage, maybe you could wholesale it to other shops. If you can spend closer to 40K on your startup, & the digital market seems to be established then go for that.
My personal opinion is that the CNC should be added when you are already at a plateau that you have steady clientele & are meeting your expenses with time to spare. It seems like lots of expense on equipment, shop space, materials, & a learning curve on something quite different from cutting vinyl. If the market is not yet demanding this kind of work, you may need to add that to your services over time.
posted
You will need enough money to buy all the equipment and supplies you need to start. And I would suggest enough to pay for 6-12 months rent on a shop if you aren't home based.
Small items required for opening will surprisingly add up in a big way. Don't count on a salary for quite a while, and much of the profit will be re-invested for the first while on more supplies and things you haven't thought of.
You mention your current employer doesn't advertise. You won't have a yellow pages ad the first year. And you will need to count on non-productive time pounding the pavement while you get word out.
Do you need a truck? Big expense there.
Think of all the tools, not just the small ones.
Things like insurance add a considerable expense.
Like Doug says, starting from a standstill is very tough.
I started as a second side-job and toughed it out till I could make the jump to lightspeed. (full time) And it took me four years with two jobs. I worked nights the last couple at my regular job. If someone phoned when I was sleeping my wife took their number and I returned the call. My customers thought I was in business full time. It was an exhausting period but that is what it took in my case. The first couple years self-employed were pretty skinny financially for us but we survived! And we did it with my wife not having an outside job.
Write a business plan. It will make you think of all the costs involved and give you a plan of attack. Don't fudge the figures and don't be too optimistic.
If you are too conservative it will be a nice surprise! If you aren't it will be a rude awakening.
Good luck!
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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I would suggest farming out all your cnc jobs to a wholesaler until you have enough steady business to justify the expense of a cnc system. There are several wholesalers in your area who will fullfill any of your needs and leave plenty of room for markup and profit on your end. Mossberg comes to mind as they are near Lancaster,SC.This way you can build your business on a firm foundation and not speculation. Once you have a reputation and a firm footing in your market area a cnc system would be a sound investment and not a speculative risk. Just my 2 cents worth after 25 years of sign work in the Carolina's,...hope this helps ya!
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick, These guys are offering you some pretty sound advice...... My post towards this answer is on your first thread. Might I suggest that you post in a single thread, as it is easier to keep the thought pattern together.
I thought I would add a few real ringers to your decision. Consider bookeeping expenses and Tax experience. Also business phoneline expenses and probably a second line. Liability and completed operations insurances. Added business taxes. I am a one man operation. My taxes and insurance alone are over 400.00 per month for my business. Phonelines (1 plus Mobile) run approx. another 150.00 with no long distance services.
If you really want to go CNC, think about the ShopBot on the side in a small workspace with little overhead. You can set up completely for less than 10,000.00 including computer and softwares. Your outlay (overhead in total) will be less than 300.00 a month. It will not appear to be a competition towards your employer, other than moonlighting, so maybe he will be interested in some of your output for his shop. The ShopBot owners are very happy with their equiptment, and they are much less expensive than the others. Go to the ShopBot homepage and get on a talk board and see how they operate. Maybe this will curb your appetite for work adventure for a while, until you establish yourself in total. Good Luck. Jack
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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