posted
Yes, Bob Burns & Dan Antonelli. Possibly a few others i've forgotten. You can click above on "search", type PC 60, & see all the nice things they ever said about it, or wait a while & maybe they will say it again.
Many will not say nice things, these things are also found by searching pc60
posted
My PC60 costs a third of the GERBER EDGE. It prints AND cuts 22" by "whatever". The output is flawless. I'll put it up against anything. In a world where nothing is perfect, the Colorcamm does what it's supposed to do in it's niche, and does it very well. It works with all programs!And you can use it as a back-up plotter when the need arises. A GREAT TOOL, especially for the small shops where the initial dollar investment is tight. But, regardless of cost, the output is excellent. Much of the negative stuff you read has to do with "learning curve" frustrations, and not understanding color reproduction (like who does). The GERBER turns out good stuff too, but it also has IT'S limitations and costs a bunch "in front". You'll very seldom see too many complaints on the GERBER EDGE......after putting out all that money and then finding out you made a mistake, is NOT something that the customer would likely admit to. But these are two different machines.....you just have to figure out which is best for YOU!
posted
I was going to leave this post alone...I swear!
BOB's suggestion that people aren't complaining about the Gerber EDGE because they're somehow embarrased about how much they spent is abolute and utter HORSE **** (pardon my french).
As Doug Allen suggested, PLENTY of rational discussion has taken place on this website weighing the pro's and con's of ColorCAMMs vs Gerber EDGEs.
As ANYONE who has owned BOTH machines will tell you, the Gerber EDGE is UNARGUABLY the superior machine (and the better investment), period.
I even have a series of (never before published) pictures of a former ColorCAMM owner (now EDGE owner) kicking his ColorCAMM out of the back of his van, dragging it out of the box and BEATING IT WITH A SLEDGE HAMMER to prove my point.
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I was going to leave that comment alone too, but... I'm sure Bob does make money with the PC 60, but bashing the edge with fabricated theory seems kind of like the behavior of an underdog.
I've got no reason to bash a PC 60. I bought one, it sucked, I returned it & bought the edge. That's my story. It doesn't make me want to bash the thing, but I guess from Jon's post, if I kept it maybe I would want to bash it
I doubt many have bought their edge cash up front, but I never hear an edge owner gripe or worry, or even mention the monthly payment. Quite simply the payment goes un-noticed due to the profits rolling in. The fact that non-edge owners often mention the "expense" makes me think they are not pulling in enough money to forget about it. After all, when things are going right, it's not an expense... it is running at a profit every day.
posted
I have th 600, not 60, but it works fine for me. It syncs up nicely with my Mac, and current software. No sense in beating a dead horse, but it occures to me that most pc 600 problems are due to operator error rather than machine malfunctions. Haven given and also attended a few seminars at Rolland U, I can attest to the fact that most people have no idea on mainteance and other issues because no one ever told them or demonstrated how to care for the machine.
"Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies. But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be." - Rush Posts: 1192 | From: Washington, NJ | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
We put "all the money" out for the Edge 2, and the only regret we have is purchasing the PC60. Now lets say we want to print an 8x10" 4-color process decal. The edge breezes right through something like that. With the PC60, not only is it slow as hell, but then you have to cross your fingers than something doesn't go wrong during the last pass of the 4th color.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 911 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
You "GERBER GUYS" get so defensive that you don't read what I said: -------------------------------------------------- after putting out all that money and then finding out you made a mistake , is NOT something that the customer would likely admit to. -------------------------------------------------- (If I spent 25 or 30 grand on a machine and was disappointed, I'd be VERY RELUCTANT to advertise it!) -------------------------------------------------- .....and costs a bunch " in front ". -------------------------------------------------- and Jon, you were gonna leave this post alone.....YEAH RIGHT!
[ March 28, 2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
posted
Glen, I don't think you'll find anyone to do that... BUT, I used an edge for over a year while doing consulting work for another sign company. I thought the machine was a great tool and found that most of the things that screwed up were due to operator (me) error. Not all of the things that screwed up were my fault though, and there were times when you'd run out of a particular foil and after you would replace the foil you would get this funky OBVIOUS line in the graphic where the new foil started up. You don't get that with a PC60. Then there was the changing of foils for each process color. Not with the PC60, unless you run out of that color. Then, you have to run your print on another plotter to cut... not with the PC60. Now maybe things have changed as this was an older Edge that I was using so I might be talking out of my rear end there.
I did buy a PC60 a couple of years ago and wondered if I was making a good choice. I got it as a demo model for cheap bucks. I had to replace a head... that was under warranty and we'll see how long this one lasts. So far, The machine is working fine and not only prints for me but cuts most all of my other vinyl... so the machine is running every day.
I still find that I have more problems with certain graphics than I do others, tricking the machine to think one color is another and double coating whites confuse me from time to time.
I am happy with the machine, but NEXT time I would seriously look into the edge or a larger format printer of some kind.
EDIT: by the way, I have always had good luck with Roland. One of the reasons that I bought the machine was my old PNC1000... it still runs like a champ after what?, 13-14 years? What a workhorse! I have had great tech support and rapid response when I have had a problem.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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"With the cost of Roland output being about two-and-a-half to three times that of EDGE output, and knowing that they can only be sold at the same price to our customers, doesn't LAYING OUT ALL THAT DOUGH ON AN EDGE UP FRONT look better as you get busier and print more?"
There are machines out there that provide superior output to the EDGE, but in my mind, the PC60 ain't one of them....
After spending money on equipment, it is difficult to admit that you made a bad decision. I don't think there are many (if any) EDGE owners questioning their purchase...
posted
Some of the most prolific & popular ranting around here is when something doesn't deliver on whats advertised or expected. I imagine gerber edge owners would do the same if they felt they had made a poor purchase decision. After all I would think 7 or 8K (or whatever a colorCamm costs)is enough money to make the thin skinned embarrased to rant about dissatisfaction with their purchase, but we hear that here all the time.
Jeff, you are right the changing of a ribbon midprint does not produce a flawless result, so like you would when you approach the end of a 50 yard roll of vinyl, you are better off anticipating that fact rather then get an ugly strip in a job every 50 yards. (my colorCamm had banding issues leaving noticible striping every 1/4" through every print, but that was an older machine also so maybe that is fixed)
Is it really just us gerber guys that sound defensive Bob?
I won't argue that the line when changing foils in mid print isn't a problem. But, it is a minor one at best. Such things like that might happen in my shop once or twice a year. Even if I were to redo the entire print (time and materials) would still be cheaper than the ColorCamm.
As for cartridge changing, its not that big of an issue. Even with the time it takes to make the changes, its still faster than the CC.
And as for having to use a seperate plotter as compared to the ColorCamm, I find it to be a benefit. That means that while my Edge is printing, I have access to the plotter to cut another job, which makes me more effecient with my time. And, while both the plotter and the Edge are running at the same time, I can be prepping another job in Omega.
Lets say that Bob is right and that a complete Edge-2 system cost 3 times as much as a single ColorCamm. So, I decide to buy 3 ColorCamms. Can 3 ColorCamms produce as much in the same given amount of time as an Edge-1 or Edge-2? The answer is simply "no." I can have 4 ColorCamms and the Edge-1 and Edge-2 can still outperform and more profitably still.
[ March 28, 2003, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
Many shops out there CAN'T AFFORD the initial outlay of an EDGE but are able to get into digital with a ColorCAMM. The argument most used by you GERBER guys is the ribbon cost factor. That's no factor at all if you can't afford to buy the machine to start with. But there are plenty of comparison arguments all the way around.....like the ROLAND prints and cuts on 24" vinyl.....the EDGE doesn't. You can walk away from a ROLAND and work on something else while it prints and cuts a complete job. That's pretty handy in a one-man shop.If the ribbon costs really bother you, the answer is a ROLAND Inkjet printer....the CJ or the SolJet. They both print and cut at considerably lower cost than ANY thermal transfer printer, with an initial outlay in the $20K range. I've been using a ROLAND plotter (PNC1100) for 12 years, and the PC60 since introduction, and also an FJ large-format printer. I'm a one-man shop and I can be printing, cutting, and plotting, while I'm designing something else. All my ROLANDS have given me outstanding service and made me lots of the green stuff, plus free-time, because I can let the print-cut machines do their thing while I'm out to lunch or taking a nap, or whatever. If the GERBER stuff is your cup of tea, have at it! Whatever works for ya!
[ March 28, 2003, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
posted
I can't argue with that. In fact, as I said, the next time I'll probably look at other alterantives. Some tools are better in certain hands than others.
Cost does matter and when you do the long term math, the Edge looks pretty darn good. The question for some out there is whether or not to make the transition into digital printing as apposed to vinyl or paint only. The thing you need is a market (it's out there) and the ability to use a new tool to produce items in a new way. Digital printing opens up a lot of areas. Speed and durability have improved over the years.
If we have a tool that works, make good use of it. If looking into one of these tools, do the homework and discover what's best for your particular situation.
No argument from me, just rambling on and since no one is here to shut me up, I'll do it myself.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Like Bob said I couldn't afford an Edge so I went with the PC-60. I have been happy, made lots of money, and actually like the print better. Especially if you are reproducting a raster image. I can't stand all those individual dots from the Edge. The thing with the PC-60 is you have to keep them clean.
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
i bought my edge a year after it came out and had to pay 26K for edge, software and plotter...gee if ya think it doesn't make me puke to know that now an updated new model can be had for $14k...think again....i have to be honest though...it's long paid for and i do use it..but certainly not everyday...and if i'm doing someones van and it has shadows..do i use the edge..hell no..cause i know in 3 or 4 years it's gonna fade to sh!t ..yellow and red definitely fade and yes i clear coat them...i know that high perf 2 mil is going to look great for at least 5 years...now i do use it for complicated graphics and small decals...who doesn't...and if i had 4 jobs a week doing those type of things i would be making big bucks...but those jobs a few and far between for me...maybe i just don't market myself well enough..who knows..i'm only a one person shop with ADD so what the hell do i know...except..when this machine goes, will i get another edge? i really don't know...i will research it more because i really don't think it's the cats meow, and maybe there is something better out there for me...keep doing your homework and buy what fits in your budget.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Bill, you've said nothing to speak of from what I can see, so were just having our own little debate here on your thread. Join in if you want to tell us your Roland story, or engage in the discussion.
posted
like my PC60. I charge $40 per Sq. Ft. Thats .28 per S.I. I would still charge that if I owned a Gerber. My average truck is $225 for 2 prints. I can't hand letter for any less or I'd go broke. The only time I have a hard time selling this is on job site signs for contractors, they don't want to pay for full color logos like on the vehicles, but to me, its the same.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
The one thing i learned about our PC60, the banding doesn't show up in pictures, but everyone knows it's there. The only time you won't see banding is a solid fill with a dark spot color then clear coat.
Every one knows that Roalnd's sample prints come from Gerber Edge's anyways.
Every notice that the sample they print at the shows is very small, and dark?? gee, make you think? If we print something that only has 3 or 4 bands, maybe they won't notice it. Well, let's make the picture real dark too, and better chance that they won't see it.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 911 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I ran this on my Edge I system four days ago and have sold over 100 units so far.
• Materials = $1.08 for 9" x 12" version • Materials = 45¢ for 5.75" x 7.5" version • Total Production Time (including weeding, masking and trimming out = 4 to 5 minutes each (averaged) • Selling Price 9 x 12 = $7.96 Wholesale / $11.95 SRP • Selling Price 5.75 x 7.5 = $3.96 Wholesale / $5.95 SRP
The finished piece has no banding. Color variarions in the image are supposed to be there. The gray background is there to represent glass. The piece is a full cut.
[ March 30, 2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Fred Weiss ]
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Thanx Jon and David. I can't take credit for the graphic as it is an unmodified EPS clipart file imported into the piece. The arched text with the red to blue gradient was the only creative thing I did.
The fact that the piece if fully cut out is what makes it sell well. We've found that window decals are the bumper stickers of the new millenium.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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