-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Joe, thanks for the info, I will enjoy reading it later, but I just have to say. let this subject die will ya? this is a sign Board and I am getting tired of the political wedge that is being slammed between fellow letterheads.
Now back to making signs and a living!
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I don't beleive "the powers" would waste time or money listening in on citisens computor/phone messages unless there was a reason.
I have no fears here, I don't conduct any buiss. or conversations that would interest any govt. agency in this country or any others. If the govt. wants to moniter my dealings/messages with out of country suppliers or customers, that won't bother me at all.
In other words "if your not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about".
Just my opinion.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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Bob: No Wedge slamming here! The cartoon proves it - we're almost interchangeable - as humans, anyway. It's only six degrees of separation between you and me, and every one of the rest the people on earth.
When you allow yourself the time to read about the Patriot act, do not expect to enjoy it. You may very well join me in running screaming into the night.
It is someting that may interfere with YOUR freedoms, YOUR wonderful life making signs, and YOUR well being in this country. It takes a patriot like OP to bring it to your attention, while it is quietly being swept under the rug right now as silently it creeps up on us.
The Patriot act has the potential to contribute to a freedom altering change in our lives that if things continue on this proposed path, our soldiers will not really return home into a Democracy as we know it.
So, how about a little compassion for us who can't manage to quite detach from paying some attention to the mess we are in. We let you detach, if you let us worry.
Ignoring this won't make it go away, or make it better. You have struck a pat-us- on-the-head tone which can be a really good thing if you just carry it one step further and ignore us. We don't want to bother you. Can't we just co-exist?
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Call me uncompassionate, but the name of this site is Letter-Ville not Capital Hill.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I've read Steve, firmly state he does not appreciate these posts which DO seperate fellow letterheads several times, and to continue to post about them is plain disrespect!!!!!!!!
So co-exist as you will and I will remember to stay away from these posts.
[ March 27, 2003, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Bob: Why did you get mad here? Are there other posts that don't interest you? My goodness, just handle this the same way.
Steve keeps a strong vigil, and if we are civil he has proven he allows us to be just a little multi faceted in these interesting times.
I think he is cool handling this by himself.
So please don't be upset, and about the wrong thing, at that. It was nothing but a link to something that affects us as people and is well worthy of our attention if by chance we don't know about it.
A service. I hope you will read it.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Myra, that is one damn good answer IMHO.(I meant your first post, but both actually) No wedge, no forcing views, an invitation to follow a link or not, to hear an opinion or not, to respect anothers right to have a different opinion.
Until there is no more OT friday funny's & OT happy birthday's, the Off topic posts will exist. As for the question of Steves concerns about politics being a topic that does not belong here...
1 a : the art or science of government b : the art or science concerned with guiding or influencing governmental policy c : the art or science concerned with winning and holding control over a government
The link above is none of those things. It is about a law that has already passed & affects us all already.
quote:Main Entry: 1law Pronunciation: 'lo
1 a (1) : a binding custom or practice of a community : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority
although more OT then talking about copyright law, it is no more political then talking about copyright law.
I've expressed my views on using this BB to promote political and religious views many times. On several occasions, I have talked on the phone, or in person about our feelings on this matter, as well as the rational behind them. Looks like our conversations mean didily squat.
I'm sure you all have your own house rules. Do your friends respect these rules or ignore your wishes and do whatever they want. Would someone who professes to be a friend actually do something like this? Sure makes me ask a few questions.
I'm seeing links, as well as cut and paste comments, to and from all sorts of political forums. I repectfully ask that those of you putting in these links and/or cutting and pasting other's comments from unrelated sites. If you enjoy this type of debate, why not go to those forums instead of dragging them to Letterville?
These are steves words directly.
Rationalize whatever you want. !!
But your still being disrespectfull
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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we can choose to take offense, or we can choose to ignore posts labels "OT" (that means "Off Topic" in case there are some new folks here).
if we're looking to take offense, then the Catholics can be upset every time they see a sign for a Protestant churce in the "Portfolio" section, and the Libertarians can be upset when they see a post about keeping sales tax records, and everybody can be upset about Californians... and lets not even get into that whole thing about the CANADIANS! (giggle)
i don't choose to be upset. i choose to be amazed at the passion and convictions of a wide slice of creative and artistic business people.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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i'm with you bob!!...this whole war topic on the BB is starting to make my a$$ itch! i can certainly handle some OT posts (si and glen taylor make sense to me, for the record)...i'm sure there is another site somewhere else that would love to share all the view points and links that are constantly shoved down each others throats. we all know who is against the war and who's not on the BB..(whoop dee f&*kin doo..ya aint changin my opinion anymore than i'm gonna change yours...move on folks!!)...this is not the place for it, as steve has mentioned many times before...can't we show him the respect he deserves and take it elsewhere?!
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I've answered about 5 on topic posts today. I posted about 5 on topic threads last week. There was so much BS going in the off topic posts, that I got little or no response. I notice that a lot of other folks needing help are getting little or none...... If I were King, I would be on the delete key all the time. "It's good to be King"
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote: Steve keeps a strong vigil, and if we are civil he has proven he allows us to be just a little multi faceted in these interesting times.
I think he is cool handling this by himself.
So please don't be upset, and about the wrong thing, at that.
I'm with Scooter on this one, even talking about paint vs. vinyl or mac vs. pc can divide us.
be civil or be divided...your choice (or be disrespectful)
Rationalizations aside, the fact is this post is not about war or politics anyway, it's a heads-up on a REAL LAW on America. Being so concerned about posting your interpretations of the laws of letterville, one would think you wouldn't mind an american law being posted in a civil manner.
With enough squawking this post that has already been derailed can get run into being deleted. I refuse to help do that any further
Thanks for the link O.P. *edit* guess I should have said "I'm with Myra too", as I was quoting her.
[ March 27, 2003, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
LOL! Quite the jump, eh? Go for it... it'll look good on you!
Have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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So its okay for Si and GLenn, who both I respect quite a bit,to post, but us free loving liberals dont need to do that Karyn? Only the posts that go with your point of view are the ones that should be allowed? I didnt read the link Joe posted yet, but I guess I will now to see what its all about. God Bless LEtterville!
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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[ March 27, 2003, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Roy Somers ]
-------------------- Roy H.Somers Signs Of Distinction 609-652-6507 Oceanville, New Jersey Posts: 107 | From: USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I really do try to look at each post on it's own merit. Over the years, it's always the same people debating the same old issues. Nobody ever changes anyone's mind, and in my own opinion, it really does get old after awhile.
I'm not against political/religious debate, but it's counter productive to our goals for Letterville. I'm a signmaker and a Letterhead when I'm here in Letterville. I want to know how other signmakers,Letterheads, and their families are doing. I say we do our political/religious debating in Forums that specialize in those issues. Let's keep Letterville the one place we can seek refuge from these other issues and just be Letterheads and'or PinHeads. Does that make any sence?
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
Hey....it is "ALL SMOKE AND MIRRORS" anyway.
The powers that rule this whole scam are quite aware of how we (Useless Eaters) allow our minds to process information. If you say "hey, I believe this or that because my president or CNN or any other of the many folks on TV say it is so...you are living in a very deep illusion. Now, I am not saying that they are incorrect in everything...it is just that it is engineered to pacify and keep you in that illusion.
If you were really aware of how we are programmed to chase that carrot...then you would surely see thru the "Smoke and mirrors"!
All it requires for you to do is admit that the possibility exists and start to think for yourself. But I fear that the smoke is just too thick right now to see clearly.
Also to those that don't like this type of post....think of it this way: If I am standing out back taken a leak...you would walk around me so you wouldn't get your leg wet...same way here....no need to get **** on your leg...your choice!
As the Group says: "It is with the greatest of honor that we ask you to treat each other with respect, nurture one another and play well together"
-------------------- Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun" Posts: 1000 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
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quote:john deaton " So its okay for Si and GLenn, who both I respect quite a bit,to post, but us free loving liberals dont need to do that Karyn? Only the posts that go with your point of view are the ones that should be allowed? "
welllll yeaah!!
but seriously...the person i sided with on this post was bob rochon, stating the political bullsh!t should be debated elsewhere...i personally have stayed away from repeatedly pontificating my political beliefs...cause really who gives a rats a$$ what i think...it isn't going to change your opinion.
just because si and glenn make sense to me doesn't mean i agree that they or anyone else should be duking it out here.
quess you missed my point. that's ok...i'm always misunderstood...or maybe i just misrepresent myself...yeah yeah that's it. my apologies!
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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All right, children, it's time for your spelling lesson...
This is an O. Say ohhhhhhh
This is a T. Say teeeeeee
When you see an ohhhhh and a teeeee get put together on the playground, then you have to decide whether or not you really want to play in THAT particular sandbox. Cuz the kids in there might be talking about something that's not FUN for you! Or maybe it will be about something that you don't understand very well.
When that happens, you should not go into that sandbox and kick sand all over the other children, who are playing nicely together.
No, if you see the ohhhhh and teeeee, you should go to another part of the playground and find some kids who are playing a game that YOU like.
Or, maybe you should go play on the swings.
Or, go suck your thumb...
( btw: Roger and Chris, you were playing nice in Joe's sandbox )
-------------------- Steve Purcell Purcell Woodcarving & Signmaking Cape Cod, MA
************************** Intelligent Design Is No Accident Posts: 900 | From: Cape Cod, MA | Registered: Oct 1999
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i posted this NOT FOR ANY OTHER REASON THEN WHAT I SAID...."JUST READ".....and as for me driving wedges....that wasnt my intent......again like i said....JUST READ.....if it upsets you, as it did me then maybe there is a reason to KNOW WHAT YOUR GOVT HAS DONE. as elmer fud says...bubububububudup...thats all folks.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Putting it in the context of sandboxes, this whole BB is one big sandbox and these " Ohhhh Teeeee" posts like these are those little tootsie rolls in the sand that the local cat leaves behind!!!!!
And if you going to crap in the sandbox then you well deserve sand kicked in your face. So maybe I will go play on the swings but as for the thumb I got another spot for that but there isnt anyroom cuz somepeole have their heads in the way!
Oh BTW, I agree, Karen's point was totally misinterpreted with all due respect John. It is funny sometimes how the same words can mean different things to different people. especially in the written context.
I may disagree with some of you on topics like this but I do repect each of you for you contributions as far as the BB is concerned when talking about anything but politics and religion. And I also enjoyed reading what Joe linked to but I'd rather talk to him in private or on another BB than bring it here.
Agian go back and read my earlier post. Its all about RESPECT so that in mind I will do the same and walk away here, seeing as I'm the village @$$hole. I wasnt coming back here but another head made mention to me about some posts.
plus who wants to play in a sandbox full of sh*t!
and the above line makes reference to the topic not anyone in general.
[ March 28, 2003, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I still think the problem would be best solved by Steve opening an OT forum, and enforcing that these posts stay there. That way we would get to talk about these things (which I think is an outlet everybody needs) without filling the sandbox up with s**t, as Bob so eloquently puts it.
-------------------- Best Regards, Mark Smith EstiMate Sign Pricing Software It's Not Luck. It's EstiMate.™ http://www.EstiMateSoftware.com 1-888-304-3300 Posts: 724 | From: Asheville, NC, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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This post and the current political climate have got me wondering and looking around. Specifically, what is Mark doing in that picture? Awfully suspicious.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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I ’m a happy camper this morning. This post has produced some creative responses.
Yesterday we were sort of stuck in the morass of the righteous and the angry where the main message, (along with an AMEN chorus) was Quote ----------------------------------------- time for Steve to start deteting all these antiwar, bleeding heart,make you feel guilty posts!….. I am tired of their incessant bleatings! ----------------------------------------- This morning it’s more fun, like Bill Murray diving in the pool in Caddyshack ------------------------------------------------ And if you going to crap in the sandbox then you well deserve sand kicked in your face. So maybe I will go play on the swings but as for the thumb I got another spot for that but there isnt anyroom cuz somepeole have their heads in the way! ---------------------------------------
Read on because I’m learning a few things.
ONE I agree with Mark that an off topic section or forum would be worth discussing (again). Obviously we are filled to the brim with “stuff” of one kind or another, and it surely gets misdirected the way things are now. No matter how much we are reprimanded, OT’s keep popping up. That’s, I suppose, because we are people, not robots.
TWO: Name calling and labeling of other people’s ideas, even unexamined, wins out here every time. At least on the surface. That’s really kind of awful, isn’t it? We all walk on eggs, not knowing what will happen, and in the diversionary tactic, and preventive verbiage, the message gets lost. I see what in my opinion is interpersonal abuse and rudeness, and what in my opinion could be called careful discourse ( does not matter who does which or what), all get poured out with the bathwater.
THREE: Many interesting people have given up in disgust and disappeared from here, in my personal observation. I miss them, and the dimension they brought to the table. Additionally, this is a much wider circle of people on many sides of the issues, than the few who post. I hear from some on the board privately, or from some who are gone forever, who do not speak up because of the abuse and rudeness prevailing.
I could not presume to speak for Steve, but I don’t think it can be fun for him to constantly have to decide when the labeling of personalities has reached its apex once again, and when to come off the fence and in which way to interfere on our “playground
Since the idea of an off-topic forum has been discarded in the past, and may be again, I think it might be in the best interest to seriously discuss to not allow any OT posts. Period. No exception, no vacillation. In “raising children” we have to be consistent. In the few years I have been around here, the problem will not go away, that has proven to be true, it just circles around and around, increasingly viciously.
In such a case the self appointed OT vigilance support team could be freed up.
Especially since they do not always turn out to be correct in their assessment of what they need to “purge”. Like they were not in this case. A good idea, like a suggestion to read about the Patriot act, which will affect our lives and therefore our sign making livelihood, got covered up in brown speckled sand, and discarded.
No question it would sure as heck be easier for me to make a post that says: ----------------------------------------------- time for Steve to start deleting all those pro war, stone hearted posts, that make me feel righteous…………….I’m tired of their incessant barkings……………… -------------------------------------------
(and "bark" reminds me: I would like to add"tree-kicking conservatives"for the sheer heck of it),
But then, if that's my contribution, what's gained by that? And how would it make me feel?
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I've said it before and I'll say it again; there are other sign and striping bulletin boards that deal only with the subject at hand but they do not generate the attention that Letterville does. They don't have the diversity. Mark has a good idea about the separate forum, suggested several times before, btw, or there is plenty of room in the heading to give a hint as to what your post is about; you can say OT-Political, or OT-Pro War, just like you can say Brush Q., or Vinyl Related, etc. That would make it easier to choose whether or not to take a look -- then later on, when you are looking for past info on a particular subject you might be able to find it in the archives.
Maybe we should have a forum just for stupid comments, fighting and name calling - no holds barred, not monitored. Wanna do something about it you #@!!)(*&!!! ? Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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Not sure what the big deal is. If you don't like the topic don't read it.......but then what do I know? I am just a 'visitor' Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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I'm with you Cheryl. If something doesn't interest me, I just don't read it. It's pretty simple.
If anyone wants to start slinging insults at anyone else or cutting them up for their beliefs, that's their perogative. They are only embarassing themselves.
If I'm at a Letterhead meet and there's a seminar going on that doesn't interest me, I'm going to move on and find something that does.
Now if a couple people start getting in an arguement and it turns into a fistfight, I just might hang out and watch that.
posted
yep, o.t. topic don't belong period. This site is about signs and that's the only reason i come here. I don't care about anyone elses political views are about their new dog(no offense). Those topics at best should be in another ot forum, especially on a site like this where people are capable of arguing about what color the sky is. I doubt there will ever be a OT forum because my bet is that people just wouldn't go into the forum too much.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 912 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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No, it won't happen Bruce because like Steve has said over and over, Letterville is like a Letterhead meet. At a meet, people mingle and talk about all kinds of stuff, on and off topic. Limiting Letterville to on topic only pretty much takes away from what this site is all about.
posted
people who write "I don't agree with you & here's why..." are almost always recieved & responded to with a fair measure of respect. Or "I do agree, & here's why..."
To completely hijack a thread with incessant bitching about how someone's fukked for having some opinion, or fukked for posting it because it will divide people is so ironic it would be funny if it wern't truly dividing people I respect from each other.
I've learned volumes here on the sign topic. Mostly advance knowledge I wasn't even looking for which is thoroughly interesting even if I may never use it, but of most value, I usually learn what I need every time I ask.
In truth I feel I take home a wealth of information from OT posts as well. Not just absorbing the offerings of others, but then circulating others views & information through my own mind to make myself grow. I learn from the alternating exchange of ideas within a thread to dig below the surface & encourage better understanding of the views of others even when I don't agree.
It may not be about changing each others opinions.
Instead of gritting one teeth, & flashing the cross, the strand of garlic, or the wooden stake in hopes to repel the approach of the evil of different ideas, open your mind & allow diversity to exist.
No one says we all need to believe as OP does, or Bob R. does.
Arabs will never be the same as Americans, but how can we hope to live peacefully in the same world if a bunch of signmakers can't upload typed discussion onto the same server without attacking anothers right to a different opinion.
(oh, & don't give me that crap about the OT topic started the act of dividing us, & the self-appointed ethics enforcers are innocently protecting our peace here. As any can read...that aint how it happened)
[ March 28, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
posted
O beautiful for spacious skies, For amber waves of grain, For purple mountain majesties Above the fruited plain! America! America! God shed his grace on thee And crown thy good with brotherhood From sea to shining sea!
O beautiful for pilgrim feet Whose stern, impassioned stress A thoroughfare for freedom beat Across the wilderness! America! America! God mend thine every flaw, Confirm thy soul in self-control, Thy liberty in law!
O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife. Who more than self the country loved And mercy more than life! America! America! May God thy gold refine Till all success be nobleness And every gain divine!
O beautiful for patriot dream That sees beyond the years Thine alabaster cities gleam Undimmed by human tears! America! America! God shed his grace on thee And crown thy good with brotherhood From sea to shining sea!
O beautiful for glory-tale Of liberating strife When once and twice, for man's avail Men lavished precious life ! America! America! God shed his grace on thee Till selfish gain no longer stain The banner of the free!
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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