posted
Joe, I gotta agree with Bruce. No need to attack Glenn personally over this. Thats what turns a debate into something less. Also gotta agree with Steve. Dumb vs. Dumber. That there was a good one.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
OK....glenn just made it happen....i AS AN AMERICAN, who is a VETERAN am more PATRIOTIC then the one who spew the word so vehemently. and i dislike the inferance that if i oppose the war, dont like this administration that i and those like me are NOT AS MUCH A CITIZEN as those who are content and feel this war is just. all the personel attacks on any one oppossing the war, and the calling of names, the HATE FOR THE FRENCH, GERMANYS RUSSIANS CHINESE, because they dont agree with what is going on.....disturbs me very much. i also detest BIGOTS....and those that are calling anti war sympathizers, communists, facists, etc etc. are what really upset me. BIGOTS are not GOOD PEOPLE....and if your one of these with HATE FOR as you call em RAGHEADS, and other names....THIS IS BIGOTED!!!! if you fall into this mind set..then you are no better then, those who are BIGOTS against the UNITED STATES. HATE .....is the sadest part of these world problems. if your a NAZI, WHITE SUPEMIST, then you are condemed for your HATE for other races. now if you are a PRO WAR AMERICAN and you speak out and show your hate for RAGHEADS, TALI BAN, AL-QIDA or almost any people of that area,FRENCH, RUSSIAN GERMAN, CHINESE then you are "just one of the boys", this is the AMERICAN THING TO DO. it comes right back to the BIGOTED behavior, and the people who want this war push that aspect(hitler did the same with the dislike for the jewish)and iam begining to feel your HATE......and when a country begins to divide into US vs. THEM then the imediate govt has done the job they set out to do. as long as we AS AMERICANS stand divided with a govt that has created this divion....then that GOVT HAS DONE the worst thing it can for the people. now it comes to down those that are with us....and we can watch the rest......and iam the crazy one...huh....
[ March 24, 2003, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
As I walk out of my shop this morning it has become ever so obvious how much I respect and appreciate anyone who ever has fought and died for our country. I got to talk to my son this morning, my mom, my wife etc. and I am enjoying the sun from springtime. How selfish I feel at this moment. I could never begin to repay any soldier. So at the very least, the very least thing I can do is totally support them and our leaders.
Enough of the bashing and bickering, like Steve said there is a war going on ....grow up! and if you dont like the good ol USA I believe there are still flights open to leave on the hour every hour. If you need a ride to the airport let me know!
[ March 24, 2003, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
i LOVE THE GOOD OLD U.S OF A. not the new latest version..is where i have a problem. and ill take a plane ticket to aurba...could use a vaction....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I keep being called from Old Europe - way old connections from my former life as a teenager, and also from family.
They want me to come home.
I say to them: I am home.
So there is a quandary, isn't there, with me feeling alienated in a country that has turned into something unrecognizable.
I think I will send Joe a ticket if he needs it, and meet him in Aruba. If this pans out, I'll stay there with him til we no longer level countries and make the rubble, or the sand, bounce.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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your zap from the hip only proves that if you have read any of what I said, ever, you understood exactly zero. Therefore, other than expressing my sorrow for bothering to even write, I can't engage you, now can I?
Carry on, and get into a little in depth study of history and logical timelines. It can only help.
I do find you amusing, when it is not so personal.
posted
P E A C E, Si ! (insert symbol of chickenfoot)
What we had was not an argument.
Myra
I looked up hominim and can't find anything other than it may be related to the family of man in an anthropological sense of representing all of man, as we sort of do on this board.
Other than that, maybe its related to a singular grit, as in the breakfast variety? As in True Grit which is what it takes to stay in this discussion
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I have read these posts over the last few days, and refrained from posting, I think it a shame that we divide ourselves over politics religion and such.
This is a very emmotive time right now, and peoples feelings should be respected whichever side of the fence you come down on.
I don't think there is anybody out there that would deny that Saddam is all the terrible things that people report or say he is, but that in itself is not justification for launching a pre-emptive attack.
Nobody has proven extensive links to Al-Qaeuda,(they're opposites in beliefs and ideals) nothing major has changed in Iraq in recent times to add urgency to the last 12 years, that couldn't wait a few more months ( apart from face saving US governments massing of troops and firepower in the gulf). If the chemical threat was so great why hasn't he used them already?, with the first advances into Iraq?
Why suddenly after 12 years has it been so important to bring this to a military conclusion?
Israel is currently flouting 37 UN resolutions, but then some of the top people or advisers in the current administration are Jewish? There are promises of a solution in Palestine as a result of this conflict....but I think that is just to curry favour with other Arab nations, the Isrealis have built so much now in the occupied territories that going back would be very difficult.
Alot of these situations in the world are of our own making, the west put in a government in Iraq before Saddam, what are we going to do after this?
The shi-ites in the south, and in Iran, and Kurds in the North.
This could have been averted. We don't seem to bother much about Mugabe in Zimbabwe, or how are we going to deal with North Korea?
Saddam was not behind 9-11, but watching American propaganda you would think this was all intertwined.
Over here on the other side of the world it comes across like unfinshed family business (Bush).
I think most Europeans have a great deal of respect and thanks to the USA for the help they gave in WW2. That doesn't diminish because we cannot accept the actions of your current President.
Over here in Europe and outside of the UK, we get to see Fox, CNN, and CBS news we get the BBC ITV etc but we also get homegrown Swedish news as well as German and French, so you find yourself not automatically swallowing the endless propoganda that abounds just now.
Being a socialist or a liberal is not a bad thing or a swear word! Living in a country that has been socialist for 50 years, I have a good standard of living, good business house 3 cars, pension sickness benefits, good unemployment benefits, (80% of your income) same with 1 years maternity leave etc etc.
Over here people are very worried about how the world will be post "Bush in Iraq".
This is not limited to a few extremists, socialist workers, freaks etc this is a concern of a huge section of the worls society from all walks of life.
I really feel for the families of those that are killed in this conflict on both sides.
[ March 24, 2003, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: Henry Barker ]
This post was getting dumb & dumber & a voice of reason is refreshing. I would honestly have been refreshed to read a reasonable post in favor of the war too, but those are few & far between.
I was not impressed with OP's personal comments to Glenn. He says Glenn "made it happen" Personally I think "I'm sorry" would have come off better... BUT, I do think Glenn's post of the banner reading "we support our troops...when they shoot their officers" was the beginning of the downward spiral of this thread.
allow me to quote myself:
quote:...folks spout prejudiced caricatures of those who support peace, either maliciously, out of ignorance, or misplaced perceptions of patriotism, they are helping no one, while hurting their own credibility.
Here's an offering from my 2 minutes worth of searching the net
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Support the Troops: End the War and Bring Them Home
I'm getting pretty tired of hearing well-meaning but ignorant people say, "We can't protest the war--we need to support our troops!" As anyone who wasn't a right-wing fool in the 1960s knows, one of the strongest and most vocal contingents of antiwar protestors was Viet Nam veterans themselves.
If Glenn & Si & others have something credible to say about the war on Iraq lets hear it, but if bashing the opponents of this war is all you want to whine about, THEN GO IN THE STREET AND BASH THE ONES UPSETTING YOU!
Or if you can be reasonable about this like you are both known for being on every other topic (you too Curtis)take issue with Henry's comments, or Myra's, OP's, George, Karen, myself, John, or many many others who ARE NOT the pacifists who "...cost the US attacks on the embasies, the Cole, Samalia, Yemen", AND NOT the "...anti war warriors (who)kept the USA out of WWII almost long enuf to let Hitler win..."
We are your neighbors, and hopefully will continue to be so long after this current news has run it's course. If you want to think we wouldn't have the freedom to converse freely on the internet unless history played out exactlt like it is today, then go ahead and think that. Just don't get so defensive about it that anyone who disagree's has to be painted into being a obstacle to freedom who needs to "find a ride to the airport"
-------------------- Karen Sartain,'Pisel' on chat 11699 E Hwy 181 Willcox, Arizona 85643
We are not human beings on a spiritual journey.We are spiritual beings on a human journey."-Stephen Covey Posts: 336 | From: Chiricahua National Monument, Az | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down ye-eah we wept, when we remembered Zion.
By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down ye-eah we wept, when we remembered Zion.
When the wicked Carried us away in captivity Required from us a song Now how shall we sing the lord's song in a strange land
When the wicked Carried us away in captivity Requiering of us a song Now how shall we sing the lord's song in a strange land
Let the words of our mouth and the meditations of our heart be acceptable in thy sight here tonight
Let the words of our mouth and the meditation of our hearts be acceptable in thy sight here tonight
By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down ye-eah we wept, when we remembered Zion.
By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down ye-eah we wept, when we remembered Zion.
By the rivers of Babylon (dark tears of Babylon) there we sat down (You got to sing a song) ye-eah we wept, (Sing a song of love) when we remember Zion. (Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah)
By the rivers of Babylon (Rough bits of Babylon) there we sat down (You hear the people cry) ye-eah we wept, (They need their God) when we remember Zion. (Ooh, have the power)
posted
You know what I am going to exercise my freedom and never click on this thread again. I dont like whats going on here, I am losing respect for those who I have respect for in concern to signs.
So before it goes beyond recognition, buh byee!~
See ya in a sign discussion...........or NOT!
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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I've expressed my views on using this BB to promote political and religious views many times. On several occasions, I have talked on the phone, or in person about our feelings on this matter, as well as the rational behind them. Looks like our conversations mean didily squat.
I'm sure you all have your own house rules. Do your friends respect these rules or ignore your wishes and do whatever they want. Would someone who professes to be a friend actually do something like this? Sure makes me ask a few questions.
I'm seeing links, as well as cut and paste comments, to and from all sorts of political forums. I repectfully ask that those of you putting in these links and/or cutting and pasting other's comments from unrelated sites. If you enjoy this type of debate, why not go to those forums instead of dragging them to Letterville?
Myra asked a simple question here. Can we not put aside these same old political comments, most by the same old political personalities, and talk about something we can agree on?
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
for a thread that started about patriotic signs it sure got off topic.
-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Boy, talk about temptation to take dead aim and fire. I have more than a few extremely unpleasant things I could say to one or two of you - nah, actually, just one of you. ONLY my respect for the ground rules of this forum prevents me from doing so.
What becomes apparent is that "this" war started long before the first shots were fired, and will continue long after it ends.
Having sworn off TV, this forum is one place I go for entertainment. I also pay for that priveledge, unlike some who use OTHER people's generosity to provide them with a forum in which they insult their neighbors and run off at the fingers.
Oh, enough already.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
thank you henry for a "world" view. iam looking from the same place. this is why i FEEL the way i do. i cant say iam sorry doug, because it would make no differance. and your right about the pics of A FEW stupids...and this why i cant say iam sorry ......cut & paste is just that. nobody wants to address the HATE & BIGOTRY....oh no we cant go there...but it shows in their posts...these are the people who still are "closet racists", who never say the N word except in their closed conversations with their like minded associates. so its not hard to generate or tranfer the HATE and BIGOTRY toward any other sector be it IDEAOLOGY,POLITICAL PARTY, NATIONALITY, ANTI-WAR OR RELIGION...yes i said the R word....most are good god fearing people. the ones who take religion as ive said before "GOD BLESS AMERICA" is not my idea of UNBIASED and FREE OF RACISIUM AND BIGOTRY. for those who dont know the meaning of the word...BIGOT: a person intolerant of creeds, opinions, etc other than his own. oh yea thats "old paint".....huh....then if iam a bigot, how do you see yourself? iam the one puttin it out here, for the reading, before i get my ticket punched!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I was arrested once when standing among 100's of other Led Zeppelin fans about 9 hours into an overnight lineup for concert tickets. At sunrise the single file line of diehard fans leaning against the wall or sitting on coolers, with blankets etc. was rushed by other 100's from the line that wrapped clear around the Chicago Stadium, & in an instant the line turned into a 20 person wide shoulder to shoulder crush of people so tight you could lift you feet & still keep your head up from the crush. The police who watched from horseback moved barricades into the lines edge, but did nothing to facilitate any crowd control. (This was prior to the loss of life at a Who concert years later)
OK, as for relevance... people started chanting fu*k the police. Being swept into the mob mentality I joined into what I knew was "wrong" (or at least anti-social, & unacceptable) behavior. I ended up being one of the relatively few who ended up in a paddy wagon, & after posting bail following an imposed waiting period, arrived back at the ticket line some 6 hours behind where I otherwise would have been.
So, Steve, please accept my apologies. I guess I didn't learn my lesson from that experience as well as I may have thought.
Although at risk of watering down my sincere apology (though I hope I don't) when these discussions are allowed to continue long past when you most likely would have first been aware of them, it can appear to be considered as another acceptable exception to your policy. I do not feel that any of my comments are of a personal attack nature, but I may be blind to a more objective perspective. Steve, I most definently see how this thread has detoured into just the type of divisions of otherwise friendly neighbors that you warned us of based on your experience with the history of this site. I also see that intelligent replies like Henry's still crop up. Given the chance, my optimism would want to believe that individuals who may have offended each other would clear up their differences within the same thread (though I'm not even sure if the thread is still open as I type this)
Glenn, Si, & Curtis if I offended any of you, or came off as posting personal attacks, then accept my apologies. That was not my intent. Though I chose to take issue with the manner of stating your opinions, in many ways the full gamut of my beliefs include many aligned with some of each of your comments.
posted
Just spent more than an hour driving around my town, in the heart of Bush country, "that's for sure".
As I did, I was fooling myself that I was not running errands and picking up supplies, but clearing my head. Because, I'm sure it shows, I am affected by feeling so strongly about what is going on.
Most of what I thought about was how to formulate an apology when I got back, an apology to Si for losing my temper. I think that's the only place where I owe one. But I will be happy to make it more universal than that, because I am genuinely and thoroughly sorry for showing that I have a temper to lose. I also regret my attempts at sarcasm that weren't even very funny ( see the strain I'm under....)
Just because I labor to make my points, and to address what I think may be genuine points of difference does not mean I have to fly off the handle when it becomes obvious that it does not make a difference.
I must not be making these points well enough yet, so I'll just have to keep on trying
As for the original question I posed, which was something I was actually curious about when it came to the rest of this country, I looked at every car I could without causing a wreck- both directions - on my long drive with 6 stops in different parts of town. I saw 2 cars with the handkerchief size flag actually fixed in a window. And I counted 12 flag decals of the wavy standard 9/11 5x8 variety. I saw 4 houses in the burbs that had a flag flying, and that does not count my own on a 20 foot pole. I still have not had one call for anything resembling anything to indicate pride in this war of ours.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
To speak ad hominem means to try to rally people toward your point in an argument by making a direct appeal or attempting to make a direct appeal towards your target audience's feelings and emotions in order to turn them to your point instead of using logic and facts...also means that when faced with losing an argument you attack your opponents character rather than focus on the argument at hand. You guys are forgetting that joe n si talk alot and that hominim=hominem in pribishese
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Lol Doug...I talk to OldPaint so much on Chat, that it is affecting my spelling and vebage. (Hope that I don't wind up as a tofu muncher, also!)
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I know I'm repeating myself here, but I think its bears worth repeating.
I realize I'm opinionated. I realize that sometimes, due to my lack of skill with words, I come across as some hardass. But that's just me and I'm not about to change for someone who might be thin-skinned or overly sensitive.
So, for Pete's Sake....Relax.
I love Myra. She is one of my favorite people on God's green earth. We are nearly polar opposites on many issues and I find it refreshing.
---
Doug & John are some of the few here that make reasonable opposing arguements. I like the fact that they can keep me on my toes. I have a lot of respect for them.
---
Joe,
For what its worth, I have never accused you of anything. I challenge you to point out where I have. If you want to think I'm some confederate member of some bigotted organization hellbent on world domination and the oppression of the masses because I'm a conservate that believes in self-reliance and that government social programs destroy more than help, that's fine. I know who I am. I am nothing like what you've implied. I also know you are nothing like you imply that I've said. You've served (willingly or drafted). I haven't. I'll never know what you've been through. That still doesn't mean that I can't study history and current events and come up with my own opinions and be able to support them with facts. Like you say, "beware the truth; you may not like what you find."
No hard feelings here. Never have been. Never will be.
---
And for anyone else who is still reading this meandering missive , I offer this little tidbit....
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." --Plato
posted
I have a series of tapes called "introductory logic", by R.C. Sproul, Ligonier Ministries. I'm trying to commit the material to memory, but alas, I do have my limitations. He says, ad hominem reasoning comes in two forms. The term is latin for "to the man". In one form, ad hominem abusive, you leave the subject at hand, then go "to the man", calling him (or her) names. The other form is called (I'll spell it in a phonic way) reduxio absurdum. It's where you go "to the man", pick up his argument, and run it to it's absurd conclusion. The first one is considered a fallacy, the second isn't, and can be very effective. I've got some words of caution about this war, but I don't know how much good it would do, I don't want to run Myna's post OT that way, and I've already been reprimanded about rules. "Hey, look at the newbie on thin ice". Jim.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Look at who is at a loss with words. Not YOU!! (I have by now stolen all of your wonderful smileys, including the one you reserved for me, which is special)
I'll settle for being called refreshing, if I can't get no respect; (it's a start)
Was that really your last post of a patriotic sign? (or is it like me, posting on this board for the last time three days ago)
And as for you and Joe.... don't worry, I'll lure him away to Aruba if it's the last thing I do. He obviously has vocabulary skills to pass on to me, (see Si's use of the fancy Pribish word) and I know I can teach him how to spell.
All you have to watch out for is our return. We'll be unbeatable.
posted
Although there have been times I have been offended by a remark made about something I believe in, I forgot about it and hold no ill will, mainly because I know most about everyone on this board or feel like I do. These are surely tough times and probably will get tougher, so emotions on both sides will run high. Steve is letting us know that this post too, has run its course, as well he should. I support our troops with all my heart and prayers and hope that this is all done and gone before long. Joe ol buddy, I hear ya, and understand what you are saying. You have alot of valid viewpoints and I for one will defend your right to say what you please, but I think at another place another time as Jerry Lee Lewis would say...getting personal just makes the point be lost. This is a great watering hole for craftsmen of all types in the sign industry. Lets keep it that way. Ill surely bet this is tame compared to what happens on some political boards.
[ March 24, 2003, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: John Deaton III ]
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
you know, i've been observing this board and am a member and i've never had the inclination to post on any topic...these recent posts concerning the situation the u.s. has gotten itself into does provoke me enough to at least put in my 2 cents worth...it can't be much more misguided than some that already exist...i am a vietnam combat veteran (I corps...68-69) have been pretty quiet over the last 30 years but proud that i did what i felt was my obligation for my country and help enable us to keep the freedoms which we are exercising now...i am not one of those that say send me over and i'll finish it...been there done that (never finished)...i do not agree with the situation we are in BUT our president is the comander and chief and in that position i have to support him...i know not very many of you are vets...i respect that and applaud your gumption to state your positions..i do find the "find a peaceful solution" folks may actually be latent hawks because they seem to be a little more verbally combative and certaily easily riled up....whether you agree or not, let me make you painfully aware of one thing...while you are having peace demonstrations, anti-war rallies or just plain bitch about the situation, remember if you're 10,000 miles from home.up to you ass in sand or swamp water all you know is it's real lonely when you think no one supports you...put yourself in those shoes and don't tell me that's what your trying to do (bring the boys home) because simply put IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN..till the politicians, big corps, political activist and funeral directors have made their nickle.....thanks for the soapbox, quit this silly assed debate and put the same effort in supporting the people who are really being "inconvenienced" by this situaion- THE TROOPS....i've said too much
-------------------- George Williams Pinstriping By George Lascassas, TN Posts: 40 | From: lascassas, tn. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
OK I LOVE ALL OF YA....iam the only one here that has said that!!!!!.and if you cant see that then your all blind. iam gona go cry in in the corner and mumble "pribishese". if i said anything to hurt anyone i apoligize. and to those who drink bartles and james..."thank you for your support".
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Call me a hardass if you will, but asking for forgiveness without offering an apology is just another way of evading responsibility.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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She is one of my favorite people on God's green earth. We are nearly polar opposites on many issues and I find it refreshing.
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