posted
OK - once more with feeling. This post is going to either disappear or stop dead in a lock, and I want to say a couple of things that are very personal on a day that will go down in infamy.
I am extremely upset today. I am as upset today as I was on 9/11 and the people who are dying as I write are not related to it, nor is their leader (who is an avowed enemy of Osama bin Laden), and who is possibly already dead. Yet we are bombing on. He is only linked to it in the minds of those that want to call Margarine Butter, such as in "butter-like".
"Al Quaida-like" or "Terrorist acts like 9/11" is what our propaganda speeches called the bill of goods they were trying to sell us down to the last minute, and unfortunately succeeded in convincing us of to a large degree. Had they had a genuine link of responsibility to 9/11 we would have had it smeared all over us to gather more support at home, to make us look better in the absence of a world coalition.
What I am saying is that we have no proof that the killing we did today was in retalliation for 9/11. We will find nothing that will in any way excuse the rampage we went on today, and the murder we perpetrated, and the ill will of the world we loaded on ourselves.
Not only was there a better way, we were on a path to find it but for the obstinacy and closed ears of our administration who were in a hurry to not miss the best weather for the attack and would not give this a little more time. There but for the sandstorms lie the dead.
In my paper this morning a letter to the Editor had the following quote from President Eisenhower. A speech he gave at Texas A&M in 1953 at the end of the Korean war. I am so upset today, I may never post again, but I want to leave this quote with you:
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. The world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children...This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity that is hanging from an iron cross."
posted
ah yes, the old nitrogen narcosis. I know one thing, without the obsessive compulsive disorder that forces me to concern myself with spelling & other grammatical trivia, I'll bet OP types about 3 times as fast as me. How do you think he got 3800 posts anyway ?
OK Si, no offense taken. We are all forgiven! You too Roger. I'm sure you meant to include a few smily's
I love the Eisenhower quote - but the irony of that quote coming from a former military general involved in one of the bloodiest wars ever loses a bit of the intended goal of the statement, don't you think? We all come to our senses eventually - but when did Eisenhower experience his epiphany?
Also, though I, like you, don't support ANY war, don't you think that taking out one irresponsible regime and a few hundred Iraqi soldiers/military leaders may save tens of thousands of Kurds lives who live just to the North of Baghdad? Remember, they are Iraqi's also. If there wasn't already a killer on the loose over there then we wouldn't need to be there at all. I think that is the basic point the supporters of this action here are trying to get across here.
I saw an Iraqi take off his shoe in the port city of Umm Qasr today when the Marines were tearing down a large picture of Saddam. He beat the face of Hussein with the shoe and then everyone in the streets started chanting and dancing thanking the Americans for their freedom from any more of his oppression. What is your response to that? We are brutal? We are wrong? The Iraqis really do like him? (Sarcasm intended) Maybe you don't like war - and neither do I. But when I saw that I realized that maybe the US policy may have a better understanding of what they need to do. I just don't know. But neither do you. And you don't know for 100% surety that this ISN'T about terrorism - and Hussein's connections to it. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" comes to mind. Hussein and bin Laden share the common hatred of America. But I don't know - and neither do you.
Terrorism aside, Hussein butchers his own people. How is it that you see the US as the irresponsible aggressors and liken our killing to his? I say again, Hussein leaves the country, there is no war. But he stays. Truly a megolomaniac's approach. He only wants to hold power - not really caring for his people.
I also wonder, did you also shed a tear when Hussein gassed 10,000 Kurds? I bet not. But you are quick to apply your point of view on this war as being the right one - and others as being war-mongers who care little about life. The soldiers who are lined up to fight for the freedom of the people of another country VOLUNTEERED for the call to support their country. They weren't forced at gunpoint. Will you shame their bravery by spitting on them when they return? Will you share your disappointment with their decision to go to war for their country's continued freedom? I suspect you won't as you seem like a really intelligent person.
Myra, I hate war. I have never taken the life of a warm-blooded anything (I do fish!!) But war has been a part of the fabric of world order since the first pointy stick was fashioned out of a tree limb. You will never change that - nor will I. If you are Christian then you might understand the inevetability of the failings of man.
Me? I'd like to know why we can't rewrite the ending of the Bible by doing exactly what you propose - living peacefully with all humans. But that, Myra, isn't what the real world is like. It is full of hate, death, sadness, misery, poverty, etc. Some call it sin. And those with faith hope that it will go away someday. Me included. But that is in the big guys hand - not George Bush's, not Hussein's, not yours and not mine. It's a great notion - but it isn't reality.
God bless your desire for a peaceful world. I mean that in all ways. It just won't happen while man still lives on this planet. And this BB should stick to signs as the foreign policy "experts" always come to blows and outright anger. But that, Myra, only reinforces my point about the failings of man.
[ March 21, 2003, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: Jay Allen ]
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
A good friend of mine was a LRP (long range patrol) in Viet Nam. One day commin gin from a 30 day run him and his platoon saw some chickens running around.
Thinkin it was time to eat some real food they chased down the chickens thinking of a good ol home BBQ.
The captain come out an yells Thems my chickens. Leave em alone. Dag nabit they say.
The day goes on and the boys get cleaned up, shave and finally eat canned food all the while staring down them chickens.
Later that evening the Cap comes by and says any one of you eat one of my chickens you all will be in trouble. IF one chicken comes up missing same thing.
Not withstanding the temptation bu tnot wanting to ruin thier comming RR the men wait till the chickens go to roost. They were immediatly captured. The cackling cacaphony woke up the dogs but not the captain.
The next morning the boys hop on the first huey out to Thailand for a RR trip.
The chickens were still there walking around naked. 100% plucked... thats the end of the story.
every time i see a naked chicken i think of the boys pluckin' them chikens out of spite..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Just lost my biggest digital print contract!
-------------------- Mario G. Lafreniere (Fergie) J&N Signs Winter did show up! Posts: 1257 | From: Chapleau, Ontario | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
Maybe no one asked George Dubya to be the big brother to the world, but realistically, someone needs to be. I'm glad to see someone like Britain and Tony Blair beside him to help temper thengs a little bit.
Hailing from Canada, my initial feelings were against going in unless the UN gave its blessing. But, when it became apparent that Saddam was still just playing games with the UN, I opened my eyes and saw the need for the invasion.
Unfortunately, the Canadian Government has done nothing but embarass many Canadians by sitting so hard on the fence that it's hurting my butt! The lack of commitment to come out and support our parent country (Britain) and our largest partner in every sense (America) whether we commit Armed Forces or not is truly embarassing for this Canadian. I feel like I might as well move to France!
i agreed and laughed along with everyone of si's points....
Op, why you bringin up the pope... like yur catholic..hahahaha chi man! plus there record is kinda tainted,, they didnt mind war when hitler was rampaging the world...(humor)
I was saddened yesterday, when i heard on a local talk show an 85 year old veteran who was ashamed to be a Canadian, when our country would not stand on the side of our closest ally..were on the same side as countries like Syria, Libya , North Korea,,, and oh yeah France.... which is why were where we are... Jean wants to be the next secretary general (he needs a cooler name like Boutrous Boutrous Chretien)...
its interesting late in the post and the day to see the web posts and reports of Iraqis happier than a hobo with a hotdog, with the americans coming in...
the war reporting is so different, because the war is so different.. ask a vet... the Americans are doin everything in there power to not harm civilians.... if this was the second world war ,they would have firebombed iraq by know and we'd be on to the next rogue...
people will be killed , but in the long run, people will be saved...
be glad you have a leader/administration that has the gonads to stand up to this... Clinton's gonads must of been busy with other stufffff!!!!!!! out!!!!!!!!!!!!
war -------- peace!
-------------------- Del Badry philmdesign Sylvan Lake, Alberta Posts: 636 | From: Sylvan Lake, Alberta | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
To anyone who thought I was harsh with O.P., well I was just offering an idea for him to work with.
He called himself a liberal(not me) he called me and all other supporters of this U.S. action, "sick with a KILLING flu". I say he is calling us names, not the other way around.
For once I would like to hear someone who is unhappy with the way things are, please bring to the table not only your objection, but your ideas to resolve the problem.
Thats all !
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here you go Roger, READ THIS! I think you will find more then whining within those 248 posts.
I think that those that had some genuinely thought out opinions about alternatives that may yet have existed before abandoning diplomatic solutions, are now under no obligation to go into a discussion about options that no longer exist. I don't think that fact voids there right to disagree with the action taken, or there right to our respect.
I personally have moved into a position somewhat in alignment with this military action for reasons similar to what Ted has just stated, but I have seen, read & held opinions that are not only opposed to it, but not without thoughts on otheractions that may have been preferrable.
And Roger, that's what I've been trying to say here.....those oppossing the war, Bush, bombs, killin', whatever ...have STILL not answered my question....
IF...YOU....where the one to make the decisions about Iraq....What...if anything would you do or have done.
Last time I asked here on this board OP emailed me about how...first.... "Bush shouldn't have won...yadda, yadda, yadda......"
But....not one idea or plan as to to what to do about Saddam.
Let's hope he's dead....REAL dead...and then we can get this over with. I see a lot of Iraqi's surrendering....and VERY few civilians or soldiers have lost thier lives....compare that to wars of the past.
posted
That is what makes me wonder if the "anti-war" group is really just "anti-Bush."
If Gore had been elected and made the same decisions, would we be seeing these kinds of protests?
We saw the same protestors with the same signs back in 1991 -- "No War for Oil" and "No Blood for Oil". We didn't see them in 1998 when Clinton initiated "Operation: Desert Fox".
Some, such as Howard Dean, are saying that Dubya is acting unilaterally. Yet, there are more countries participating in Bush 43's coalition than in Bush 41's UN supported coalition back in 1991.
We're told that we will be killing innocent Iraqi children. Yes, that is going to happen. But the number killed will be greatly smaller than those who died under Saddam's regime. And those who survive will have something they never would have had otherwise..... and opportunity to be free. Sadistic pedophiles like Uday won't be around to rape, torture and murder children for sport.
War is a terrible thing. But, doing nothing is worse.
"Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffet
[ March 21, 2003, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
We need a "regime change" here in Canada. Maybe when the US has a spare moment they can help us logical thinking Canadian's take our country back!
-------------------- Dennis Veenema The Sign Shop Dresden, Ont. but what do I know anyway...I've only been doing this for 20 years! Posts: 368 | From: Dresden, Ont.,CAN | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
Topic Closed
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic