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Author Topic: Questions about Iraq
Si Allen
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Tired of stupid liberal soundbytes, whining and tantrums about the impending
war against Iraq? Here are some snappy answers that may come in handy. Use
them often.

The United States is taking unilateral action against Iraq!
So far it's a 90-member worldwide "unilateral" coalition.

Why is Bush in a rush to war?
An 12 year rush?

Tough inspections can disarm Saddam Hussein without invading Iraq.
12 years of inspections have done nothing so far. Clinton had eight years
to disarm Hussein.

We should let the inspectors finish their job.
We did. They didn't. However, we will.

Why fight? The Iraqi military is weaker than in 1991.
But their biological weapons and chemical weapons are much more dangerous.

There's no proof of weapons.
We know they have 'em, we know they hide 'em, and we have tape recordings
and photographs. What more would you like? An Iraqi rocket in Martin
Sheen's shorts?

If we invade, Saddam Hussein might use those weapons of mass destruction
against us.
I thought Iraq didn't have these weapons?

But terrorists might attack if we invade Iraq.
Oh, so if we don't attack Iraq, terrorists will never strike us again?
That's like bringing a flounder to a football game. It makes no sense.

We shouldn't go to war without a UN resolution.
ANOTHER resolution? What about the last 16 resolutions? Shall we use them to
wallpaper our bathrooms, or shall we use the same resolutions Bill Clinton
used in Bosnia?

We don't have a real declaration for war.
Yes, we actually do. It's called "Joint Congressional Resolution #114."

We are giving 20 billion to Turkey. We could use that money at home.
OK, we'll use that money to strengthen our Iraqi border with Wyoming.

If North Korea has nuclear weapons, why aren't we invading them first?
Uh, hello, isn't that the point? Would you rather make an example out of a
country that does not have nuclear weapons or one that does?

European leaders are against the war.
The Reichstag wasn't attacked on 9/11. The Grande Place wasn't attacked. The
Kremlin wasn't attacked and the Jerry Lewis Lifetime Achievement Museum in
Paris wasn't attacked. America was attacked. And besides, except for the
tantrums of France, Belgium, Russia and Germany, only four European nations
aren't willing to defend freedom. The entire rest of Europe is with America.

The French don't support the war.
Oh, did they surrender already?

Germany objects to this war.
Germany objected to Reagan's "attitude" towards the Soviet Union. They
also objected to our presence in 1943 as well. Maybe they should learn
something from their own sordid history.

Belgians are against the war.
I can live without Waffles and ice cream.

USSR doesn't support the war.
They are still angry over Reagan's brilliant Cold War victory.

Polls show Europeans are against this war.
Polls show Europeans believe their freedom was achieved by endlessly
debating in marvelous dining halls, conveniently forgetting their right to
be pompous blowhards was achieved with American blood, not over rated wine
and brie.

We should build a coalition with our friends.
With friends like these, who needs enemies?

What happens if we can't build a United Nations coalition?
Who cares? The U.N. not only has little credibility left, it barely has
any legitimate reason to exist.

But the UN is the world's most respected governing body.
Not as respected as the US military. The Japanese respected us after we
beat their asses in WWII.

America has always waited until enemies attacked.
Now that oceans can't hold back enemies, preemptive war is forever a
necessity. And if you believe Saddam has no ties to terrorism I have a
bridge I'd like to sell you.

War will cost billions!
And how much is YOUR freedom, your family and your city worth?

President Bush says he's willing to violating the 1976 executive order
forbidding assassinations of foreign leaders.
As soon as the ink is dry on rescinding that idiotic order, will someone
please pull the trigger? The line forms to the right

Many Senators don't support Bush
Are you speaking of the Senators from Bordeaux? Even the duplicitous
Hillary Clinton has jumped on board because it suits her career goals.

Tom Daschle says George Bush has a "credibility gap"
When was the last time we came to Tom Daschle for the truth? And Tom
Daschle's credibility gap from political maneuvering? Are you willing to
put politics over freedom?

These problems didn't happen under Clinton.
Actually, they happened but Clinton ignored them. Now, Bush will clean up
the mess he left.

But Clinton didn't start a war.
Unless his girlfriend was testifying before congress …

Bush 1st should have taken out Hussein in '91.
That 1991 UN resolution forbade a march on Baghdad. Remember?

Millions of peace activists are demanding we stop the war.
Millions of Iraqi's are begging for us to start the war. They want the
same liberty as those protesters.

Thousands of innocents will be killed or injured.
That's a lot less than Hussein is killing right now. Of course, there's
only one man that needs to be killed …

Young Americans will die in battle.
Would you prefer they die in skyscrapers?

Protesters have genuine objections to war
Just like they did in Somalia? Bosnia? What happened to their whining when
Clinton sent our troops to those countries? If you don't like
conservatives just say so, don't hide behind false arguments.

People are coming from all over the world to act as "human shields".
Actually, they've turned tail and run now that they've seen Sadam's
intentions to assign them around power plants, oil fields, military sites,
etc.

This is about American Imperialism
So which country do we own? What nation sends us their tax dollars? If
America was imperialist, we'd already own the entire world. Who could stand
in our way?

This is blood for oil.
The only blood is the Iraqi people tortured, starved and killed while
Hussein builds massive palaces to hide nuclear weapons, all financed with
Iraqi oil. If we really wanted Iraqi oil why didn't we just take it in
1991?

This is a racist war.
America happily endorses a multicultural approach toward anyone who dares to
take away our freedom. Regardless of race, color or creed, we hunt them down
and kill them. We think that's fair.

A U.S.-led invasion of Iraq is a great recruiting tool for terrorists.
Have fun recruiting people into oppressive misery as they enjoy their first
taste of freedom. Only the deranged and fanatics will attend.

An attack on Iraq could seriously undermine and destabilize Arab nations.
Destabilize the region? The sooner these oppressive 14th century dictatorial
terrorist sponsoring regimes fall the better.

Are we prepared for a multibillion dollar occupation?
Were we prepared to liberate Europe and Japan in 1945? South Korea in 1953?
Grenada? El Salvador? Kuwait? The Eastern Bloc? Afghanistan?
Nations always love America when we rescue them from tyranny. The price of
freedom is never free.

Polls show Americans are more concerned about the threat from al Qaeda than
from Iraq.
It's not a war against Al Qaeda. It's not a war against Iraq. It's a war
against terrorism. Anywhere we find it. One nation at a time.

American opinion is against the war.
No, it's not. A majority of Americans want to fight now, not later.

According to a recent poll.
You know what? Screw those polls. We're in a war against terrorism. If you
don't want to fight the bastards, get the hell out of the way. Go visit
Paris, Antwerp, Berlin or Moscow. You can stay there forever. But this time,
don't call us when the heathens are at the gates.

--------------------
Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA

(714) 521-4810

si.allen on Skype

siallen@dslextreme.com

"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"

Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!

Brushasaurus on Chat

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Deb Fowler
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Si,

did anyone tell you lately that you make a hell of a lot of sense? you do.

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Deb Fowler

"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966)

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Doug Allan
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The time for diplomacy has come & gone. For myself & others who have had comments in the past about weather or not to use force yet, that is a non issue now. Even the house (or congress?, I forget)voted unanimously to come together in support of our troops.

The relevant attitude at this point is "United we stand!" (As shown so eloquently in the image posted by Shep)

So, why all the divisive responses to questions no one here is asking?

--------------------
Doug Allan
http://www.islandsign.com

"you get what you settle for"

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Aaron Haynes
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right on si! you said it!

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Aaron Haynes
Aaron's Signs & Windows
Napa Ca
aa4signs@sbcglobal.net
------------
Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two"
------------
If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes.

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Stephen Deveau
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Hi Si..

Remember Me! (The SoapBox Canadian?)

All you have said is true to your own beliefs.

As a Nation of 300 million people you have the right to voice your opinion,as I do within the Great Canadian Nation of 30 million.
So as your Leader "Barks" the order to do something around the world...Everyone should JUMP!

Sorry Si.. but there is still (6 BILLION PEOPLE) left to voice thiers.
So if a free vote is in order, to say YA! or NAY!
What happened?

[ March 20, 2003, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: Stephen Deveau ]

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Stephen Deveau
RavenGraphics
Insinx Digital Displays

Letting Your Imagination Run Wild!

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Curtis hammond
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Uhhhh Steve.

Our president is not barking like a dog ,,,, he has called our nation to unite. He did not bark and have me JUMP. He is responding to a threat . Also, I called him first via a email just as so many others the day after 4 of our flight crews were assasinated and our cities were invaded and our government was attacked in an assasination attempt via an enemy who came in thru your country. So many canadians I have the pleasure to know told me they are really upset this happened thru their back yard.

Just for the records...

Iraq is not supposed to be possessing SCUD missles according to thier agreements. Guess what. They fired two so far.

Hans Blik said this is and much other evidence is proof they are not in compliance.. He also said that they were not allowed to inspect the basement ares of certain buildings. He said this is where the illegal stuff is being hidden.

Why didn't he look ther in the first place? he said they wanted to eliminate all the easy places first.

Well now. Looks like peace had a chance. And Iraq blew it..

[ March 20, 2003, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Curtis hammond ]

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Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate.

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Mike Languein
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"Free vote", Stephen? Ha ha, you silly boy.
We have a few sayings; "It can't happen here." "Not on our soil" and "Tell it to the marines."

I've been having "Shock & Awe" since the last election.

[ March 20, 2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Mike Languein ]

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Stephen Deveau
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I bow down!

ENJOY YOUR Oil product PRICES! from this point on.
Home,Car,Commercial.
[Eek!]

--------------------
Stephen Deveau
RavenGraphics
Insinx Digital Displays

Letting Your Imagination Run Wild!

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Glenn Taylor
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Actually, oil prices have started dropping - 9.5% on Tuesday alone.

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BlueDog Graphics
Wilson, NC

www.BlueDogUSA.com

Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.

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Adrienne Pereira
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 -

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Adrienne Pereira
Splash Signs

Port Angeles, WA
----------------
"Sure, it's colder in the Northwest, but...it's a damp cold!"

360-477-5656
splashsigns@msn.com

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Glenn Taylor
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Hey, this site is suppose to be about signs.


Lets do a workshop and see what we can do to rework this Nascar fan's sign to make it better....

 -

Now, right off the bat, the biggest problem I see with it is the margins. They're just too crowded.

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BlueDog Graphics
Wilson, NC

www.BlueDogUSA.com

Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.

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david drane
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Myra? Myra, where art thou?? [Wink]

--------------------
Drane Signs
Sunshine Coast
Nambour, Qld.
dranesigns@bigpond.com
Downunder
"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer"

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John Deaton
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quote:
So, why all the divisive responses to questions no one here is asking?
I agree with Doug here Si. Why are you posting something to just start up a thread that will divide people on here when now more than ever that shouldn't be.
Why offend people when there is no need. There's no place on this board for posts like this Si.

--------------------
Maker of fine signs and
other creative stuff.
Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave.
Harlan, Ky. 40831
606-837-0242

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FranCisco Vargas
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I totally agree with what you say Si. Somehow I think the post might not last, but then again if everyone keeps their cool and shows somehow it's sign related like I saw pictures so far, you will have a "collectors item post"
Hope you don't mind I did a copy and paste of the words just in case. That was HEAVY! RIGHT ON BRO!
Teddy would have done the same!

--------------------
aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist"
http://www.franciscovargas.com
Fresno, CA 93703
559 252-0935
"to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98

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Myra Grozinger
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Why David: I did not know you cared!
Now that some "butt" is being kicked in Iraq, no need to offer mine as well.

Also: In raising my children, and in living in general I have learned that when really juvenile and inappropriate and offensive things are being said, to stay quiet is also a valid response. If everyone gets lucky it challenges the speaker to examine his "product" as it simply hangs out there in the air.

--------------------
Myra A. Grozinger
Signs Limited
Winston-Salem, NC

signslimited@triad.rr.com

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Glenn Taylor
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quote:
In raising my children, and in living in general I have learned that when really juvenile and inappropriate and offensive things are being said, to stay quiet is also a valid response. If everyone gets lucky it challenges the speaker to examine his "product" as it simply hangs out there in the air.
 -

 -

 -


Well said, Myra.


(sorry, I couldn't resist [Wink] [Razz] )

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BlueDog Graphics
Wilson, NC

www.BlueDogUSA.com

Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.

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Si Allen
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For all the people that got upset by my post.....it is not to start an argument....it is to answer your questions!

Somehow all the treehuggers, bunnylovers and pacifics seem to think that their emotional viewpoint is the only valid one! There are other views and beliefs! They only protest and critice, but never offer a solution...except that we are to blamed for everything!


just my point of view!

--------------------
Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA

(714) 521-4810

si.allen on Skype

siallen@dslextreme.com

"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"

Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!

Brushasaurus on Chat

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Myra Grozinger
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Glenn, one thing you are not considering, my friend, is this: (so let's have a little tete-a-tete):
It is a well known fact of psychology, that oftentimes people who are ignored and put down by those in power (such as wives of abusive and oppressive husbands) rise to bizarre and exaggerated behavior in order to either affect change or to get heard, and then they are called the crazy ones.
Nothing new here.

[ March 20, 2003, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: Myra Grozinger ]

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Myra A. Grozinger
Signs Limited
Winston-Salem, NC

signslimited@triad.rr.com

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Glenn Taylor
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So, were these protestors abused as children or are they just having a tempertantrum for not getting their way?

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BlueDog Graphics
Wilson, NC

www.BlueDogUSA.com

Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.

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Curtis hammond
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wow myra, are u bein' abused?

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Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate.

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Gavin Chachere
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Myra.....while it is nothing personal,if you really wanted to present your opinion objectionally like you claim,you would stop posting with the underlying tone that you and others who share you viewpoint are the only ones capable of understanding the subject at hand,having feelings or emotions about it and thinking it thru, and anyone who differs form your view is automatically one notch lower than you and automatically a horrible person. FOr those who claim to be/want to be percieved as the most understanding and open minded,you present the most close minded point of view.....any opinion that differs from yours is immediately dismissed as horrid,awful,vile,disgusting blah blah blah with pretty extreme prejudice and negativity...and lord forbid anyone speaks out against that,why they do it b/c they just can't think is what they're told...then we wonder why divisiveness starts??

--------------------
Gavin Chachere
Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.

"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two"

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John Deaton
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Just heard on tv of 16 US Marines and British soldiers that were killed in a helicopter crash.
God Bless them and their families.
This war has already cost us too much.

--------------------
Maker of fine signs and
other creative stuff.
Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave.
Harlan, Ky. 40831
606-837-0242

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Myra Grozinger
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I think I just got my butt kicked, after all. I need to go think now.

--------------------
Myra A. Grozinger
Signs Limited
Winston-Salem, NC

signslimited@triad.rr.com

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Glenn Taylor
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No one is getting their butt kicked, Myra. [Smile]

Everyone is just letting off some steam expressing an opinion. I just hope all of us don't let it become personal or make it personal. You are still my favorite liberal with a true heart of gold.  -

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BlueDog Graphics
Wilson, NC

www.BlueDogUSA.com

Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.

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John Deaton
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quote:
any opinion that differs from yours is immediately dismissed as horrid,awful,vile,disgusting blah blah blah with pretty extreme prejudice and negativity...and lord forbid anyone speaks out against that,why they do it b/c they just can't think is what they're told...
Although Myra and I think quite a bit alike, I cant put it into words as eloquently as she.
I really cant see where she comes across that way as described by Gavin.
Myras guilty of one thing, thinking liberal among a highly conservative board.
Just my opinion, y'know.

--------------------
Maker of fine signs and
other creative stuff.
Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave.
Harlan, Ky. 40831
606-837-0242

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Si Allen
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That's OK John...you are forgiven.

[Smile] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

--------------------
Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA

(714) 521-4810

si.allen on Skype

siallen@dslextreme.com

"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"

Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!

Brushasaurus on Chat

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John Deaton
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You are too Si. [Smile]

--------------------
Maker of fine signs and
other creative stuff.
Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave.
Harlan, Ky. 40831
606-837-0242

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david drane
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quote:
Now that some "butt" is being kicked in Iraq, no need to offer mine as well.

Hey Myra it is good to see that you are still keeping a sense of humour. I hope you noticed that I did use the little "wink" icon. I think you are a good debater and you sure as well would be capable of kicking my ass any time in a real debate (even though I would be right!! [Wink] [Wink] )

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Drane Signs
Sunshine Coast
Nambour, Qld.
dranesigns@bigpond.com
Downunder
"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer"

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Gavin Chachere
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John,it's nothing personal...and i'm not singling myra out or trying to argue with you,but i guess maybe we read diff boards at times? I would go back and read mosts posts on topics like these,anything other than the moderate to liberal viewpoint gets attacked and then we ramble about the horror and insensitivity of what so n so said etc. If I was gonna make a personal attack i guess i could've but i didn't. Heres an unrelated question...you by any chance do t-shirt artwork for the WPO Bench Bash for cash Meet in new orleans in oct? looks like your style email me and i'll scan the shirt if i can

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Gavin Chachere
Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.

"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two"

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Kelly Thorson
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"Somehow all the treehuggers, bunnylovers and pacifics seem to think that their emotional viewpoint is the only valid one! There are other views and beliefs! They only protest and critice, but never offer a solution...except that we are to blamed for everything!"
Just because a person is not in favour of this war does not make them treehuggers, bunnylovers or pacifists.
I find that the posts of these so called pacifists are far less inflamitory or personally directed than those of the people who are posting the pro war posts. I personally find Myra's posts to be extremely articulate and intelligent.
Please reread the thread and see whom is attacking whom.
I respect everyones rights to have their own opinion. Please do not start personally attacking someone because they have the gall to think different from you.
Respectfully,
Kelly
[Frown]

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“Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?”
-Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne

Kelly Thorson
Kel-T-Grafix
801 Main St.
Holdfast, SK
S0G 2H0
ktg@sasktel.net

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Mikes Mischeif
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Did you know that 90% of canandians live within 100 miles of the US border? You guys get any closer and we'll move the line..... [Wink]

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Mike Duncan
Lettercraft Signs

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David O'Hanlon
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Nobody loves a Soldier until the enemy is at the gate.

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Army Dave
Oz

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Mikes Mischeif
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A Speech by Alabama State Auditor Beth Chapman.
"I’m here tonight because men and women of the United States military have given their lives for my freedom. I am not here tonight because Sheryl Crowe, Rosie O'Donnell, Jane Fonda, Martin Sheen, the Dixie Chicks, Barbra Streisand, the Beastie Boys, George Clooney or Phil Donahue, sacrificed their lives for me.

If my memory serves me correctly, it was not movie stars or musicians, but the United States Military who fought on the shores of Iwo Jima the jungles of Vietnam , and the beaches of Normandy .

Tonight, I say we should support the President of the United States and the U.S. military and tell the liberal, tree-hugging, hippy, Birkenstock wearing, tie-dyed liberals to go make their movies and music and whine somewhere else.

After all, if they lived in Iraq , they wouldn't be allowed the freedom of speech they’re being given here today -- ironically, they would be put to death at the hands of Saddam Husssein or Osama Bin Laden.

I want to know how the very people who are against war because of the loss of life, can possibly be the same people who are for abortion?

They are the same people who are for animal rights but against the rights of the unborn.

The movie stars say they want to go to Iraq and serve as human shields for the Iraqis, I say let them buy a one-way ticket and go.

No one likes war, I hate war. But the one thing I hate more is the fact that this country has been forced into war -- innocent people have lost their lives -- and there but for the grace of God, it could have been my brother, my husband, or even worse my own son.

On December 7, 1941 , there are no records of movie stars treading the blazing waters of Pearl Harbor .

On September 11, 2001 ; there are no photos of movie stars standing as human shields against the debris and falling bodies ascending from the World Trade Center . There were only policemen and firemen -- underpaid civil servants who gave their all with nothing expected in return.

When the USS Cole was bombed, there were no movie stars guarding the ship -- where were the human shields then?

If America’s movie stars want to be human shields, let them shield the gang-ridden streets of Los Angeles, or New York City, let them shield the lives of the children of North Birmingham whose mothers lay them down to sleep on the floor each night to shelter them from stray bullets.

If they want to be human shields, I say let them shield the men and women of honesty and integrity who epitomize courage and embody the spirit of freedom by wearing the proud uniforms of the United States Military. Those are the people who have earned and deserve shielding.

Throughout the course of history, this country has remained free, not because of movie stars and liberal activists but because of brave men and women who hated war too -- but lay down their lives so that we all may live in freedom. After all -- "What greater love hath no man, that he lay down his life for his friend," but in this case a country.

We should give our military honor and acknowledgement and not let their lives be in vain. If you want to see true human shields, walk through Arlington Cemetery . There lies human shields, heroes, and the BRAVE Americans who didn’t get on television and talk about being a human shields, they were human shields.

I thank God tonight for freedom -- those who bought and paid for it with their lives in the past -- those who will protect it in the present and defend it in the future.

America has remained silent too long. God-fearing people have remained silent too long.

We must lift our voices united in a humble prayer to God for guidance and the strength and courage to sustain us throughout whatever the future may hold.

After the tragic events of Sept. 11th, my then eleven-year-old son said terrorism is a war against us and them and if you're not one of us, then you're one of them.

So in closing tonight, let us be of one accord, let us stand proud, and let us be the human shields of prayer, encouragement and support for the President, our troops and their families and our country.

May God bless America , the land of the free, the home of the brave and the greatest country on the face of this earth!"

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Mike Duncan
Lettercraft Signs

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Adrienne Pereira
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I suppose we should have minded our own business when Hitler did what ever he thought was right with his own country too....after all, it wasn't any of our business either.....

I don't understand what all the protesting is all about.....WHAT IS it you are protesting?

Are you protesting freedom for oppressed people?

Are you protesting the removal of an evil dictator who tortures and rapes his own people?

I thought liberals were all for human rights and liberation...

And still, not one of you will offer a realistic solution to what we are to do about Saddam Hussein....or are you suggesting we turn our heads, walk away and hope for peace...get real

A

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Adrienne Pereira
Splash Signs

Port Angeles, WA
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"Sure, it's colder in the Northwest, but...it's a damp cold!"

360-477-5656
splashsigns@msn.com

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old paint
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OK....this 1st piece on this post is load of crap!...if you belive everything that is said in it, you been drinking to many green beers.
i can post things like that that is more truthful.
the pope says this war is not right, 1000, and thousands across the nation and around the world say its not right. and all you good "sheeple" belive in this crap. and listen to you..all head up..lets kick ass, yea we gona get that s.o.b. its pay back time. well so far 16 american soldiers have died....not by enemy guns. but hell we gota lose a few to protect the many....yea..up untill 2 days ago nobody was dead, and sadamn wasnt comin down main st here.
oh well we better get him before he gets us... the boogie man will get you if your not careful too!!!!
i feel for all those have died....and will die for something that didnt have to happen. if this makes the world a better place, i will say i was wrong, but thru all the history of wars good and bad ones....A LOT OF PEOPLE DIED so those that were in power could LIVE ON!!!! and that is the point of my distane for this INVASION.

[ March 21, 2003, 02:57 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]

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joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
850-637-1519
BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

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Gavin Chachere
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I rest my case.

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Gavin Chachere
Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.

"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two"

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Jon Butterworth
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I agree with most of what Si posted. He's no Red Neck, gun nut, nazi ... just a loveable old arab who lovs life and his country. I got to know him pretty well recently [Smile]

Of the things he listed ... one strikes me to the heart ... how come if the Iraqs said the didn't have missiles, they using them now? They said they didn't have any chemical warheads left too ... god help our troops when they get to outside Baghdad:(

Got an 18 y/o son in the Special Forces Airborne doing Chem Warefare training in the Ozzie desert right now!!!!!

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Bushie^
aka Jon Butterworth

Executive Director
HARDLY NORMAL
SIGN COMPANY

http://www.icr.com.au/~jonsigns

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Doug Allan
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this pro war chest thumping comes off like a bunch of adolescent tension whipped into a frenzy because your heroes are out gun-slinging & your butts are sat at the computer looking for an enemy to blast your self-rightous mouth off to, to somehow make yourself part of the home team, the few, the proud.

There is no pride in a pre-emptive strike against un-named "protestors" and un-voiced "questions about Iraq"

Gross generalizations are being made against those who may have voiced any opinions in opposition to, not necessarrily any or all use of force, but either the timing, or the sequence, or the justification of said use of force.

Sure there are some real dumbass protestors out there getting there picture in the paper. Don't for a minute think there are not an equal number of pro-war goons with murderous rage unleashed on the bandwagon of war with complete clueless & uneducated predjudice as their only motivating force.

I have been "reluctlantly convinced" (to borrow Cams words) in the last weeks that agressive disarmament would probably be necessary. I don't try to second guess our government on every aspect of determining timing, sequence, or justification for use of force. I second guess myself, to examine my perceptions, the level of understanding I have actively sought to aquire, & the evolution of how that perception & understanding help me come to grips with an opinion I can put my soul behind, & not just my mouth.

Like Kelly said, opposition to war does not make one a tree-hugger or a pacifist.

Opposition to anti-war protestors does not make one a patriot. It does not make one brave, or honorable, or just. It most definintly does mean you would have fought valiently & triumphant while the "protestors" would have somehow failed to rise to the challenge.

Chest-thumping war hawks are about as impressive as Mike Tyson, while the tempered & introspective restraint behind opposing views may conceal the wisdom & balance of a samauri warrior.


Si, your original post didn't comeout & say "hey all you dips#it anti-war losers in letterville this is for you!" So I really didn't take it as being directed at anyone here. I only took it for what it is, a divisive, inflammatory, & intentionally confrontational rant that has absolutely no business being posted here. It seemed to be simply a normal reaction to your being tired of a bunch of liberal hogwash. (Which I can assure you, there are those who would still hold out hope for a peacful solution who are also tired of liberal hogwash)

But Si, you then came up with this comment:
quote:
For all the people that got upset by my post.....it is not to start an argument....it is to answer your questions!

Somehow all the treehuggers, bunnylovers and pacifics seem to think that their emotional viewpoint is the only valid one! There are other views and beliefs! They only protest and critice, but never offer a solution...except that we are to blamed for everything!

Now you are "calling out" your neighbors here in Letterville. You are not answering letterville questions, your are making them up to make your point. That is fine but admit it, don't pin it on some anonymous "protestors" who "asked" questions. Sure, you are drawing from reality, but the extremist idiocy of the questions you raised do not represent any views I have read here in letterville. I read every post in the 200+ comments on this topic last month.

You claim that "They only protest and critice, but never offer a solution...except that we are to blamed for everything!" Either you did not read that thread, you didn't remember it, or it served the making of your point to disregard facts & go for sensationalism instead of honesty.

I am a proud American supporting my country & our soldiers. Why, when, & weather to put them in harms way is not an easy decision & I don't envy the responsibility of those who must make those decisions. As nobel & dedicated as our soldiers are, I would doubt they want that decision to be made with arrogance or anger. Now that it has been made, the arm-chair-Generals out there can rant on with rightous indignation at any who ever questioned this war, but IMHO, it may have been those who questioned the war that truely had the best interests of our troops in mind.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, but more then any other political thread I've seen here, this one really started out completely out of bounds. Si may have gotten a bunch of atta-boys out of it, but it is sad to see how camparatively little response was given to Aaron Haynes patriotic post It has ten times the merit of this thread for those that want to show their support of out military in these troubled times.

In this excerpt of the anonymous quote Aaron posted here are words that ring of truepatriotism to me.

quote:
He feels every note of the National Anthem vibrate through his body while
at rigid attention, while tempering the burning desire to 'square-away'
those around him who haven't bothered to stand, remove their hat, or
even stop talking.


In an odd twist, day in and day out, far from home, he
defends their right to

be disrespectful.


Just as did his Father, Grandfather, and Great-grandfather, he is paying
the price for our freedom. Beardless or not, he is not a boy. He is the
American Fighting Man that has kept this country free for over 200 years.
He has asked nothing in return, except our friendship, support and understanding.

...so give them your support. Bashing your neighbors is not really so high on the list of what would show that support.

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Doug Allan
http://www.islandsign.com

"you get what you settle for"

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Jon Butterworth
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Doug!
Feel safe in Hawaii? [Wink]
Don't think yer going to get another Pearl Harbour!

Just a car bomb or two outside one yer busiest Tourist Bars downtown ... like in Bali Last year! Lost lot of innocent Ozzie Tourists in that "act of war" against us. Couple from my home town! Kill ratio was 50 times what America suffered Sept 11 when you considered population!


This is why Australia has a commited thousands elite troops, airforce and navy to the conflict. My own son is shortly to become one of them [Frown] .

Hopefully the whole exercise will be over quickly with minimum loses both sides. Got a feeling it will .. pray it does anyway.

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Bushie^
aka Jon Butterworth

Executive Director
HARDLY NORMAL
SIGN COMPANY

http://www.icr.com.au/~jonsigns

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Neil D. Butler
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Curtis, Did I hear you Correct? Did you say that the Guys who attacted the Pentagon and the world trade Centre came through Canada? If that's what you're saying, I believe you are wrong.
Also I'm not saying that that I don't support you in this war either, it's just that all those attacks, I believe came through you're borders, after they were trained in your country to fly planes.
It's just too bad their was'nt a better way, I just heard on the News about the First American Soldier Killed in Battle, lets think about him and his family, and hope and pray that there won't be too many more, On both sides.

--------------------
"Keep Positive"

SIGNS1st.
Neil Butler
Paradise, NF

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