It was a pleasure to meet you "in the flesh" at Fred's meet. Although I am far from an expert, I can tell you what has worked for me.
I use a small crockpot to heat my glue (about $8 at WalMart). But be sure to clean it VERY thoroughly (sp?). As the glue will chip the porcelain if left to dry. You can even heat your glue in a microwave, but man that stuff stinks !
1)I use one part glue to one part water. Mix it and let it set for about 30 mins. (or until it starts looking like oatmeal)
2)Heat the glue to 140-145 degrees (meat thermometer at Walmart $2 works great).
3)This is the tough one. It's not liquid but not solid, kinda like "Jello". If you cut the glue with an exacto the cut should "stay" there. If it flows back together and "heals" itself, it needs to dry some more.
4)Things like temperature and humidity can affect this process greatly. No two pieces are ever the same. The "chips" that fly off contain shards of glass and animal hide, which other animals like cats, dogs, squirrels, etc.. love to ingest. Please be careful with the disposal of them.
Email or call anytime!
-------------------- David Cooper, The Sign Shack Enid, OK. Posts: 658 | From: Enid,Oklahoma, USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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G'day Shawn, Greetings from "Down Under" Send me your fax number and I'll send you a copy of "A recipe for glass chipping" given to me several years ago by the late Rick Glawson.
It is 4 off pages of A4 typed sheets giving you a very good insight into the different types of chipping plus the various mixtures. Also you can order supplies from Esoteric when the y re-open.
Have fun, regards John
-------------------- Aussie John Caringbah, N.S.W. Australia
man makes a thing of beauty of that which he loves Posts: 148 | From: Caringbah, N.S.W. Australia | Registered: Oct 2001
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Hello John...met you at Mazeppa, and see your pictures in the magazines all the time.
Really like your work. You know that really makes us want a copy of that recipe. If there is someway I could get it from you I'd even take the time to word process it for others here on the BB, if you want.
posted
Shawn, the easiest way is 1 glue to 1 water, wait 1 hr. microwave till hot , NOT BOILING just keep picking it up with your hand. You'll know when its hot. I find all that double boilers, thermomators, crock pots etc. are a waste of money. DO NOT GET THIS STUFF ON YOUR FINGERS. It takes 7 week to get off .
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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Hey Shawn! Glad to see you were so inspired at Freds meet to try the glue chipping. It is pretty fun to do, if you are ever in the area, we have a book on it that you can borrow.(if I can find it). We have been playing with a few tips from the meet like the acudome material. We had used it before but the meets always make us excited about the sign industry all over again! Have fun, let us know your results! TomKat
-------------------- Tom & Kathy Durham House Springs, MO Posts: 654 | From: House Springs, MO | Registered: Apr 1999
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During the gelling process, allow the glue to cool naturally and it will be easier to cut than if you accelerate it. You Won't have to cut as much if you coat the glass with asphaltum before masking and blasting as the liquid glue will flow up to an asphaltum edge and stop. With a microwave, you can rehaeat as needed and add a little water if the mix becomes too thick. We have been adding a little food colorant to be able to see the glue better in small lines etc. After gel stage it just needs to be in a low humidity enviornment to chip thoroughly.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick suggested using "1 cup of glue to 1 1/2 cups of cool tap water for every approximate square foot and then cover so as to not let it evaporate, for 30 minutes before applying heat.
Using less water in the mix(1 to 1) slows the glue flow and gells rapidly. this can cause difficulty in achieving an even glue layer, yet is invaluable when brush applying multiple thin coats to curved or cylindrical objects such as neon tubes and or jars. Onthe the other hand, when large solid areas are to be chipped(say 4sq ft or larger) you want the gelling slowed down to level out evenly. Here we will use as much as a 2 to 1 ratio. it can take several hours to gell, but as long as you have the glass panel perfectly level, the glue thickness will be consistent"
Of coarse thats just half of page one.
Hope that helps
-------------------- Ron Percell Percell Signs 707-769-0639 Petaluma, California
I really hate to say that 2 1/2 cups of glue will do more than one square foot.
In the Esoteric catalogue, (and I quote) "Use one 3oz. dixie cup full of glue & 1 1/2 3oz dixie cups of water per sq. foot of area to be chipped."
Your formula yeilds 2.5 cups of usuable glue.
The formula above yeilds about 7.5 oz. of glue, which is about one cup. This is what I think you meant. On the other hand, portions are relative, depending on how thick you lay the glue.
"I'll give you a call on monday. Boy do I have news for you."
-------------------- Richard Bustamante Signs in the Pines www.signsinthepines.com Posts: 781 | From: Nevada City, California | Registered: Nov 1998
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Been out of town for a few days, and what did I find in my in-box when I retured...a recipe from John...
Here you go:
One pound of glue will generally chip between 7 to 10 square feet.
HERE ARE THE BASICS
1. Prepare the glass (clean) 2. Mix the glue 3. Apply the glue 4. Let glue dry 5. Clean with warm water after glue chips
IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT
PREPARING GLASS
The surface of the glass required to be chipped must be roughened up to allow the adhesion needed between the glue and the glass. This is usually done by sandblasting the area to be chipped. To do this yourself you will need an air compressor and a sandblasting gun , either siphon or pressure pot. OR check out your local Yellow Pages under "Sandblasting" to find someone to blast the glass for you The material should be at least 90 grit , the higher the better. Your Sandblasting/chipping stencil should be the double filiment sandblasting type.
MIXING THE GLUE.
The type or pattern of desired chip design is dependent on the "Glue to Water Ratio". Generally the dry glue is combined with COLD water in a ratio two to one (2parts water to 1 part glue) This is measured by weight 1 1/2 oz of glue to 3 oz of cold water per square foot of glass. If your glass area is 24"x24" this is 4 square feet, remembering that 144 sqr. ins= 1 sqr. ft., you will need 6 oz of dry glue and 12 oz of water. After mixing, let the mix stand for about an hour enabling the glue to absorb all the water, it could help to stop evaporation if the container is covered.
AVERAGE RECIPE
1 1/2 to 2 ozs of Dry Glue per square foot 3 ounces of Cold water per square foot
Heat this mixture in a DOUBLE BOILER container(DO NOT try to heat the glue container directly on a burner. This will stink tremendously. SLOWLY heat the mixture to 140 to 150f. It is important that you do not boil this mixture and that the temperature remains at 140/150, stir occasionally. HEAT SLOWLY and use a brewers or candy thermometer to measure the temperature of the glue.
APPLYING THE GLUE.
The glass should be clean, making sure all the residue of sand blasting is wiped off, particulaly on the edges of your pattern mask. If there is any dust left from the blasting the glue will not stick to the glass Place the glass on a level surface, pour the glue onto the blasted area (using a regular tomato sauce dispenser) in an even layer between 1/16 th to 1/8 th thick, if the glass is level the glue will level out to an even thickness, the glass maybe tilted side to side to help glue flow. The glass should be at room temperature....CAUTION if the glue is too hot it could break the glass from shock and WHAT A MESS
DRYING TIME>
The glue will go through the initial drying stage, this is the first hour or two depending on the humidity and temperature of the drying area. Make sure the glass is always level. The preliminary drying stage takes between 12 to 24 hours. This is where the glue will and lose most of its moisture. Circulating air will speed up this process. The glue should be left to dry at its own time, do not hurry, uneven curing may cause a result of poor chip pattern. Then it is time for the secondary drying and chipping stage. This is when the glue actually starts to peel and chip. Th glue shrinks considerably during the total drying process, as it shrinks it grips into the pores caused by the sandblasting and literally tears the face off the glass.
SECONDARY DRYING AND CHIPPING STAGE
This when I use a small space heater to warm the glass to about 125 f. Do not point the heater directly at the glass and keep it at least several feet away from the glass. You do not want to get the glass too hot and crack. This indirect heat cause rapid evaporation of moisture leading to curling of the glue and the chipping of the glass surface. The glass is under EXTREME stress at this time and should, if necessary, be handled with care. On sunny days the glass can be chipped in bright sunlight, this is the easiest way to chip glass, but the chips can fly with some force, take caution, ie. safety glasses. After the glass is chipped there maybe small pieces of glue still left on the glass, soak the face with warm water and scrape off the softened glue. If you wish a double chip simply repeat the process after the sandblasting. CAUTION...THE GLUE CHIPS WILL HAVE GLASS SHARDS LEFT ON THEM FROM THE PROCESS AND CAN CREATE A PROBLEM IF NOT CLEAREDAWAY, BECAUSE THE GLUE I S AN ANIMAL PRODUCT DOGS AND CATS LOVE TO EAT THESE CHIPS ...PLEASE PROTECT YOUR PET
VARIABLES EFFECTING THE CHIPPING PATTERN
The chipping pattern is sublect to many variables.The duplication and uniformity of each is dependent on RIGID controls of these variables Some of the these variables are:
1. Glass -type and surface preparation 2 Room temperature during preliminary drying stage 3 Glue type, concentration, temperature at time of application 4 Weight of DRY glue applied per square foot of glass 5 Dryness of glue film at end of preliminary drying stage 6 Temperature of drying room during chipping process.
DIFFERENT GLUE WEIGHTS
Primary control over the chip design lies in the amount of glue to water per square foot of glass
1 1/2 oz of glue per square foot is the minimum, chip will be spotty or none at all 2 1 1/2 oz of glue per square foot gives the best results, uniform chipping is usually the fernleaf pattern 3 2 oz is what I normally use, this gives me a larger ICEBERG looking chip 4 3oz of glue is economically wasteful and usually the glue is so thick it will not chip.
Experiment with these various amounts to see what get, If you will need to repeat the pattern keep good notes
I hope that everyone can use this as much as I can...
Shawn
-------------------- Shawn Setzer Signs by Shawn 826 Hwy 47 East, Troy, MO Posts: 241 | From: Troy, MO, USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Here are a few shots of “Jillbeans” mixing up a double batch of glue using the 1:1.5 ratio during this weekends meet. First photo has Bob Hovanec(R) and Gary Godby(L) giving expert instruction! This piece was produced using the procedure Kent mentions further above, including the food coloring (No, that’s not blood). Last two show the “in progress” as it was inside Bob’s purpose built cabinet.
I agree Don, Rick was thought of and mentioned (and Lola) often the past two days. Hope you guys have a great meet!
-------------------- Bob Gilliland InKnowVative Communications Harrisburg PA, USA
"The U.S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." Benjamin Franklin Posts: 642 | From: Harrisburg, PA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Shawn, I'll add a couple of comments that might help you out with all this.
The formula for 1.5 oz per square foot assumes you are covering the entire surface of the square foot. If you are using very thin sandblast stencil, you might end up actually covering the entire glass surface with glue. If you are using anchor stencil or another similar thickness material, you probably won't cover over the top of it...so you generally adjust by estimating.
Since all the water you add eventually evaporates or dries out of the mixture, the amount you add initially is only necessary to make it poor or spread as desired. The normal "suggested" amount is twice the amount of glue, or two to one (by weight). As it turns out, the water part weighs about twice that of the glue, so one dixie cup of glue to one dixie cup of water.
Also, you will probably find the glue will gel quicker on a cold piece of glass than a warm one. You might want to work in a warm room if possible in the winter.
We found the pour/cut method works fine on large areas and fairly simple designs, but you MUST be prepared to babysit the piece of glass after you pour the glue. You need to be around when the glue gels to a soft leathery state. You need to recut all the stencil edges with an X-Acto knife and carefully remove the sandblast stencil, leaving only the glue areas. If you are cutting too early, the glue reheals as you cut, and if too late, you might not be able to cut through it at all. You can't leave it overnight and plan on doing that first thing in the morning.
We found the asphaltum resit method superior on designs with small intricate elements, but it is a little more messy at the end when you need to remove the asphaltum from the glass.
I did a step by step article on the asphaltum resist method in issue #95 of SignCraft. If you don't have it already, you should be able to order the back issue.
Good luck, Mike Jackson
-------------------- Mike Jackson Golden Era Studios Jackson Hole, Wy www.goldenstudios.com/ Posts: 390 | From: PO Box 7850 | Registered: Nov 1998
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