posted
Hello, I have a customer who would like me to paint a mural (about 5'x3') on his son's bedroom wall. A motorcross scene. I don't feel like buying any water based paints, because I am set up for oil based (1-Shot) only. But, how about after I painted/airbrushed the mural I sealed it with a happy water-based, flat finished,brush on clear? Has anyone tried this method with great results? I don't want the guys kid sitting in his room all day getting high off of his mural.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3943 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I don't know about that one... Anytime I did any mural work, especially where kids are concerned I always used just plain Acrylic House paints, I also think they look nicer, for a bedroom. I think you will sleep better at night knowing there's no lead in the house. Maybe I'm being a little cautious on this one.
[ February 21, 2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Neil D. Butler ]
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
How did everybody get so paranoid about One Shot? After the thinners evaporate nobody will be getting high - and the kid would have to eat the mural for it to harm him. The trace element lead in all that would be the least of his worries. I suspect the lead scare is a product of two sources - 1) the water base paint manufacturers and 2) the government agencies who get paid to investigate, scrape, repaint an demolish old buildings.
Remember Cyclamates? In the early '70s diet sodas had them and somebody, no doubt the competition, raised a fuss and said it would kill you. So the labs determined how much that would take and started injecting rats with it. It finally took 140 times that amount to kill any rats . . .that much distilled water would kill you. There's more mercury in your fillings than lead in the amount of paint going into that mural.
Tell them to feed the kid so he doesn't eat the place.
[ February 21, 2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: Mike Languein ]
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
The lead concern is for the sweet leads such as white lead which are no longer in 1Shot. Would not want anyone to injest Chromium Lead Oxide when sanding the paint later but the volume certainly would be minimal. Once the solvents are dry and the resin is cured...about 14 days, there is not hazardous out-gassing. This info is listed on your MSDS.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
The One Shot label clearly states "DO Not apply to toys and other childrens articles, furniture, or INTERIOR FACES of any dwelling or facility which may be occupied by children.
CASE CLOSED.
-------------------- Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I did a mural on my bedroom wall recently. On the advice of a lot of folks on here I used acrylics, the ones in the little bottles that you can get at any art supply. I got mine at Wall Mart. They are real cheap, go a long way and are real easy to work with. Like you , I am set up to work with One Shot and some urethanes. The acrylics were easy to adapt to. I bought a bag of cheap "artist" brushes at Wal Mart , must have been twenty assorted sizes in there and cost less than ten bucks. They worked fine, for airbrushing ad a drop of dishwashing liquid to the acrylic/water mix, works fine. You'll like how quickly this stuff dries. I wouldn't think of doing an indoor mural in One Shot after seeing how nicely the acrylics work.
[ February 21, 2003, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: George Perkins ]
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Mike, you possibly are looking at an older container. The CURRENT formulations of most colors do not have that warning as the sweet leads have been removed. It is always wise to check the label of the can you are about to use for the restrictions which apply to it. While I agree that it is wise to keep the hard leads away from a child's room, dried enamels for the most part are no more hazardous than dried acrylics. FYI uncured acrylic resin is highly carcinogenic and skin absorbtive.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Alicia, use the acrylics for kid's rooms!!!
One shot is for signs and vehicles.
It's not good for you or anyone else to breath one shot in an enclosed space. Besides, it's just plain unpleasant for most people (except Mike, who I suspect breathes it for fun )
What do you need to be setup for acrylic? Water? paper towels? a bar of soap?
It's just a breeze painting kid's rooms with acrylics.
Use small foam rollers for the larger elements, cut in outlines and details with smaller brushes...everything you need is at Walmart.
posted
Alicia, another reason to use Acrylics, is that after the kid gets tired of it, I was going to say "Sick" lol. But after a while it will have to be painted over, and trying to paint house paint over 1shot is impossible to get good results. You will see it through the layers of paint, no matter how many coats you put on. What I mean by that is that it's thicker, kind of like an embossed look. How many times in the past when I hand lettered a vehicle, when the vehicle is repainted, you can almost always see a Ghost of the lettering through the paint job. Go with acrylics there are just too many reasons not to. Good Luck, and afterwards, lets see some photos.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Does anyone here bother to read other responses before posting an opinion?
Go back and read Kent's responses ALL THE WAY THROUGH. If after that, you still believe you know more about paint chemistry than he does, by all means enlighten us.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I wish I had photos of the Playroom I did about 10 years ago, it was really nice. When you went inside and closed the door it was like in a story book, even the door was part of the mural. There were picket fences in the fields that gradually came to the foreground, and once there I turned them into real wooden picket fences nailed flat to the wall, with the grass airbrushed over it to give it realism. the wall and ceilings became one with birds painted onto the ceiling among the clouds, and then cut to shape birds hanging on fishing line just suspended in mid air, a puppet theatre, along with trees and animals, bamby, owls, bunnys, bears, it was like a dream world. That was the last mural I did for a Home owner.. I just don't have the time anymore... too bad.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Kent, Cam, Sometimes it just isn't worth posting only because persons aren't interested in a factual response. Persons never realize the some things labled are put there because of laws. There aren't enough people involved in the things we are and use whatever it is that makes themselves happy for whatever reason.
Neil actually said something that may be of value when painting the walls over the existing mural, that is if you look down the road.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
For the most part the chemicals used for colors in acrylic artists colors are basically the same as those used in one shot,...if they are of any quality. Same goes for oil artists paints. One shot makes a blue label brand that would be great for indoor murals as it is totally lead free. The primary thing as artists and tradesmen we deal with is bright brilliant color. The only chemical compounds that do not deteriate when suspended in a medium such as acrylic polymer or oil based resins are basically the same and labeled as such by a majority of quality manufacturers. These chemicals are commonly called pigments. They usually start out as a powder and then can be added to either the acrlic water based paints and or the oil based solvent paints. Both types of paint have brand lines that advertise toxic free compounds. Both types of paint lay claim that the other can cause cancer and brain damge under certain circumstances. I have read where each type of paint caused bad reactions amongst users and abusers. Usually these statements have been written in defense by the opposing manufacturers and are somewhat factual. In the end as artists and graphic designers we are givin a variance to use traditional high quality materials which do sometimes contain these toxic compounds. There are inherent potential drawbacks to use of both types of media if abused.
As for covering up old artwork in the event that the owner no longer wishes to have it on their walls both types of paint will have to be sanded smooth and coated out with a stain blocker such as kilz or equivilent brand regardless of what type of media used in order to hide the bright vivid colors for a mural.
In the end as a supplier of graphics and murals you will need to educate yourself in order to provide your client with the highest of quality graphics and or artwork that their budget will pay for. The highest quality murals are traditionally done in artists oil pigments and are way out of the average homeowner's price range. Many people do not realize that artists oil paint has lasted on panels and unflexible surfaces for over 500 years if applied in the proper manner.Acrylics polymers lay claim to lasting as long but they have only been around for about 40 or 50 years,..you do the math,...
I've done a lot of murals in my nieces and nephews rooms. They were all acrylics and turned out great.
Our own kids were a lot older than they were and had murals of their own as well that I did. Peter in particular got the first (he's 27 now) I remember proudly painting the door, windowsills his crib and everything else in that very special room. The mural matched the curtains. It was cool! And ALL of it was done in OneShot... even the crib. I didn't know better then, in fact I did it that way because he was to get nothing but the best!
He survived with no appearant ill effects. We lived in that house for less than a year and he was only in the room for a few months....
I would only use acrylics now, because of their ease of use and the safety factor for our precious kids.
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8764 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Kent, Thsi can of one shot was delivered on Tuesday of this week. If thats too "old" of a label for you , say so. The bar code Number is 0500201482 you can call one shot at 219-949-1684 if you think this is an old label. I don't.
Besides, it would be complete arrogance to dismiss the warning. It's there for a reason. Until we see the chemical compounds actually go in the can, who here really knows what they are talking about?
The post was about safety, blow off the warnings if you wish, and proceed at will.
-------------------- Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Just because you receive a can of paint recently, does not mean that the label is current. 1Shot is in transition to the new requirements, like most other paint companies. Since I am not privy to their current process, I cannot speak for them. In their transition however, after the purchase of Chromatic Paints, I became familiar with their intented process which I am seeing the results of in the most current label in my stock. If it is anything like it was a Chromatic, it may take 2 or 3 years before all the label stock is rotated. Their concern for safety is evident in their willingness to go above the Federal standard. The paints are for USE by professionals who know how to properly handle and apply the product. The same is true of many high-end acrylics, industrial coatings, powder coatings and automotive finishes. The average do-it-yourselfer should not be applying these products, even with a weekend workshop under his belt. While we all must be concerned for the safety of others, my point is to know the relative hazards of the products we use everyday. The mural in a child's room aside, we put up signs in many areas frequented by children, the aged and the infirm. We should be concerned about protecting the general public during the application and removal of paints and be aware of the relative hazards that they subject us to and those around us as well. Not all resins, pigments and the other inert components of dried paint films are alike. For instance, the yellow and green pigments we see in enamels will not stay in suspension in a waterbourne resin. Substitutions must be made which effect the relative durability of color from one type of paint to another. Not all oil colors are alike and not all acrylics are alike. The bottom line is that with the exception of Chromiums, the relative hazard of the dried paint film is the same. This is now mandated by Federal regulation and is controlled at the source for manufacture. My intent is not to start an argument about the relative merits of using a particular paint, but to pass on the facts that I have acquired so that anyone can make an informed decision.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I have a couple of questions about using One Shot:
What about the reflections from the shine of One Shot when painting stuff like this? I don't want shiny trees and roads and what-not. I painted an ice cream cone and it was so shiny on the brush strokes I couldn't even "see" it at certain angles.
Also, can you go over One Shot with an acrylic clear?
-------------------- Penny Baugh Lee Edmund Spyro Design Group
Spyro Graphics 3458 Main Street, East Fort Payne, AL 35968
posted
Use a flattening agent to reduce the gloss such as Chromatic or Dupont Flattening paste. Once cured you can use the topcoat. I would prefer topcoating with waterbourne acrylic such as UV topcoat clear or Ti-cote, both of which come in gloss and flat. That might be a better option for recucing the gloss.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I think Kent knows what he's talking about.
That said...
There is no good reason to use 1 shot for any sort of indoor project. There is plenty of paint in plenty of colors, gloss, semi, flat whatever you might want. Probably even glow in the dark! Specifically formulated for indoor use.
The "1 shot" label clearly states...
Safety: This product contains lead and is for professional, commercial, and industrial use only. It is not to be used in or around the household. See Warning and Caution statements on label. For health and safety considerations, consult the current "Material Safety Data Sheet" for this product.
I made a healthy (no pun...) attempt at getting the 'MSDS' for 1 shot products. The links at their web page are broken (404 error).
I e-mailed them about the broken links, hopefully they will be fixed soon.
posted
Steve, I think you have an older label as well. I would not use 1Shot that has a label with that warning. I do not disagree that using alternatives indoors especially in a childs room is wise. When 1Shot is the paint that you are most familiar with using, then with the newer formulations, it is not necessarily bad to use. This is not your father's 1Shot, nor mine. Using older formulations of artists oil colors is not a good move either.
Your supplier should be providing you with current MSDS with every shipment and be aware that they are updated regularly.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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