posted
oh happy day...you get my award for the biggest f&*kn dumbass in business!!!ding ding ding...we have a winner!!!...what's your address?? i'll send ya a vinyl sticker to proudly display in your window..or better yet..i'll email you the vector file and you can cut it, weed it & apply it yourself!! you go guy!!
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Wow! What a difference a few hours can make. I first saw this post late last night. Never dreamed this character would generate this much excitement.
Like many of you, my first assumption was that Roger was indeed another "Kenny." Kenny was a ficticious personality. Someone's idea of a joke at our expense. It only took a couple phone calls to expose the Kenny myth.
I just got off the phone with Roger. It was a very brief conversation, but he is for real. His main biz is discount furniture.
I was really hoping to gain some insight into how and why a guy like Roger ended up on this BB. He obviously never took the time to investigate what Letterheads are all about.
The best advice I ever got was to only listen to those who have, or are doing, whatever it is I desire. For many years, I relied on business advice from drinking buddies and factory workers. Nice people, but they had nothing to teach me about the sign business or Letterheads.
We're blessed to have many longtime Letterheads here in Letterville. Many have well over 25 years experience in the sign business. Find the person that has the business and/or lifestyle you want and do what they do.
Roger makes signs partime. If you want to sell matteresses all day and make a few extra dollars doing discount signs, Roger's method may work. I'm not interested. I am interested in seeing more about how to determine an hourly rate and doing more to establish a lifestyle that satisfies my creative needs AND allows me to support and spend more quality time with my family.
I regret someone with Roger's attitute got this far here in Letterville. We're also surprized that you guys let him push your buttons and get whatever satisfaction he gets out of your responces. This is the last post you will see from Roger here in Letterville. Let's move on.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
quote:Originally posted by Brian Snyder: What is there to gain by attacking Canada?
"The United States of Canada"... that has a nice ring to it, dontyathink? It's not like they have any military to keep us from taking over either, cause they rely on the US to protect them.
**Edit** Man I thought Canadians would have thicker skins from living in all that cold weather! Only meant it to burn one person but as Steve says, he won't be here anymore.
He does have a point though.. people in other countries DO hate the US.. it's called jealousy.. and they would sing a different tune if the US abolished ALL international trade. The only reason the US imports goods is the cheap labor found overseas and across the border allows cheaper costs for everyone, but we have all the resources to build the same products. Money talks.
By the way, wholesale furniture is SO cheap, even discount stores can mark it up 300% and still undercut everyone else.. the furniture trade's dirty little secret! of course you have to warehouse that stuff so sitting on inventory can be expensive.. I guess having 40 rolls of vinyl is cheap in comparison.
Just goes to prove you can cut your nuts off always trying to be the cheap guy.
[ February 17, 2003, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Mike Pipes ]
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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My Father, Is rolling over in his grave right now. I'm Sure!From the Great Depression, through two world wars and several other conflicts America has been there to help. Including rebuilding countries and allowing freedom all over the world. I have never met an American that was not proud of his country, except for the 'movie star types" that live in lala land. Good Luck in your new business, and hang on to the furniture store, you're gonna need it. Bill
-------------------- Bill & Barbara Biggs Art's Sign Service, Inc. Clute, Texas, USA Home of The Great Texas Mosquito Festival Proud 10 year Supporter of the Letterheads Website www.artssigns.com "MrBill-" on the chat page MailTo:biggsbb@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1020 | From: Lake Jackson,Tx | Registered: Nov 1998
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I bet he does not even own a paint brush. Darn vinyl jockies! (with love) You buy a plotter and Presto! your an expert. One day soon people will realize the limitions that poor signage puts on a business and then what are you going to do? And what about the art? Not just the design, layout, and application. I mean the ART. By the way Rodger, I'm new here too and I have enough class to know that the people here are good people. Don't pee in thier cornflakes.
-------------------- Lee McKee McKee Studios Birmingham, Al Planet Earth (sometimes) Posts: 277 | From: Birmingham, Al | Registered: Jan 2003
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HAHAHAHAHA.....WHO REALLY CARES WHAT ROGER-HOLE DOES!? IF HE MAKES A LIVING, HE'LL HAVE TO WORK HIS BUTT OFF DOING IT, OR FOLD. I THINK HE SHOULD CHARGE 30% ABOVE COST SO HE CAN MAKE THE BIG BUCKS!
posted
I'm far more offended by Mike's comments. I don't know Roger...sure never met him in real life. Right about now, I'm wondering what my pal Mike really thinks about me and other Canadian Letterheads. See how it gets started? Grrrrr.
[ February 15, 2003, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
We have a BARBER here in Prescott that does SIGNS on the side......his intent was to undercut everybody......after a year, he's still cutting hair, NOT vinyl! Hey ROGER-HOLE......in the end, the customer wants SERVICE & VALUE, with PRICE being a distant 3rd! WAKE-UP!!!!!
posted
Mike is the other side of the U.S. we were discussing on "that other thread" Steve. Just ignore him, He most likely hasn't ate lunch yet or somthing like that. I'm sure he didn't mean it THAT way anyway. We Americans get crabby if we skip lunch you know. We wouldn't want to take over Canada anyhow...It's just too cold. All the smart people in the States live in the South where it's nice and warm. Carribian Beware!
-------------------- Lee McKee McKee Studios Birmingham, Al Planet Earth (sometimes) Posts: 277 | From: Birmingham, Al | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
yeah Mike, hurry on back after lunch to get that edited. I know Mike wouldn't mean to let that remark stand "out of context", but even spoken to a nationalist idiot trouble maker, it still bothered me too. (My dad's Canadian & I always considered myself "half" Canadian in my own way)
Steve, as for "letting him push our buttons" if he was standing in the corner of a live meet shouting inflamatory remarks, I don't see how ignoring him completely would help. Some ignorant fools like this guy, may not even know what a dumass he is without a little enlightenment from reaping the responses to the disharmony he has sown. But thanks for showing him the door...good call on that!
[ February 15, 2003, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
posted
This guy is on to something: face it, the sign industry is way overflowing with "talented -er... funiture store owners", and the likes. So why not beat em at their own game. I already have a resale number, so I just called a furniture buddy who gave me a couple phone numbers of wholesalers, set up a couple of accounts and voila!
I'M NOW IN THE FURNITURE BUSINESS!!!
The beauty of it is I don't have any overhead and I can easily pay for all my own furniture with just one sale! I don't have to make much of a profit, just as long as I can under price the other stores in town! (You wouldn't believe the markup on sofas.)
BTW, We did this with Music equipment a couple of years ago, we were spending a ton of money on equipment, so we went into a side business selling Music and Pawn stuff.
(I guess we "stupid Americans" have never thought about the "free enterprise system" -oh wait, I forgot, that's one of the fundamental concepts that the rest of world wishes they had!)
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1736 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Roger; take a closer look at what your intending to do, are you shooting from the hip? My ex wife was from Truro, would you like to borrow her bifocals she left behind when she jumped out of the bedroom window when I came home unexpecedly on that night of infamy.....He also left one shoe behind which I have had bronzed and use it for a gas pedal on my big block 46 chevy pick up truck.
J.G. Kurtzman
-------------------- John Kurtzman J.G. Kurtzman Sign Shop 97 Taylor Ave. Norwalk, Ct. 06854
----------------------------------- Creative communication since 1959 Posts: 213 | From: So. Norwalk, Ct. USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
i cant belive this post has gotten to 2PAGES!!!!! mikey as for the canadian "dis" job....think you need to rephrase it....if it was ment to be funny, you need to make known.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Yea Mikey, if the Great USA Did'nt "force" their "Opinion" that we "Canadians" don't "Need" or "Should" have our own Airforce with our advanced, superior, "Canadian Made" Delta Wing Super Sonic Fighter, of the 1950's known as the "Avro Arrow". Then maybe we would'nt "Need" The protection of the United States, from all the countries who Hate us, from being the War mongers that we are. LOL Said with "Toungue in Cheek"
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well, apparently some of you don't know a good thing when you see it. At those prices, we should all farm our work out to Roger. And while he's busting his butt making nothing, we can be out doing what we enjoy most.
I'm heading out to do some snorkeling in Burmuda. Who's with me?
posted
Since Roger is no longer allowed to post & therefore will not be able to further stir the pot, lets get into a nationalistic North American pi$$ing match among friends.
Loser pays green fees, OK? I have a 163 handicap... LOL!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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No fair Bruce! You have any idea how much it cost me to get good at golf?
In the past seven years I've shot well over 1,600 rounds of golf and bought three sets of clubs not to mention food and drinks. I have to earn it all back somehow even if it means hustling a little
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
Glenn we don't use caddys' down here. We do it the old fashioned hard way and have to drive our own bag around on a golf cart. Makes for a tougher day on the course than having somebody else carry your things for you.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
The best thing that could come out of this post would be a discussion on determining an hourly rate. I can tell you from experience that it is an eye opening experience. Mike jackson, Chip Carter and Jeff Cahill have done some excellant articles on this subject.
Insulting Roger won't solve anything. Let's use this as an opportunity to really look into this money issue. Bob Stephens has some valuable insight on this subject. Here's an article he did for us back in 1998.
More to come on this subject, but each of us needs to break out a calculator and pencil. The first thing to determine is what you need to bring home each month to support your lifestyle and family. What are your housing costs, groceries, heat, electricity, insurance, clothing, etc, etc, costs? At the end of this exercise you need to know what you need,as well as what you would like to make a year. We'll use this as a starting point to determine what your shop rate HAS to be.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
Roger certainly knows what he wants to do and being a free country he pretty much can do as he pleases.
We certainly don't have to agree with him or do as he does... that's our right.
I know from experience that even with minimal overhead if I want to earn $20 per hour I need to charge at least double or triple that that.
In our little operation I charge out at $100 per hour if I am billing that method. That doesn't mean that I earn $800 per day however. Even if I manage 8 out of 8 hours at my desk - not all my time is billable. I find even on productive days I can't charge all my time to customers, it wouldn't be fair.
On quoted jobs I like to do considerably better than an hourly rate as I am also taking on risk. If something goes wrong I have to make up the difference.
And on what I do bill I personally only get to keep what is left over after ALL the company expenses are paid.
The company needs some money left in reserve to pay the ongoing bills, insurance, tools, new programs, equipment, carry inventory and especially pay taxes. I hope you make enough money to pay taxes. Our company owns and maintains a top quality vehicle, tool trailer and even a travel trailer to use on our out of town worksites, or as an office locally on sites.
The company paid for my new camera, and purchased a new computer and a bunch of other stuff this past year too. The business even paid for our recent trip to Florida.
It will also build me new shop and studio when the time comes... all legitimate and worthy expenses.
When all is said and done I want to be well paid for my creative skills that I have spend decades developing. I'm 49 years old now, and I if I don't start capitalizing on my hard earned skills now, WHEN WILL IT HAPPEN???
My time is valuable to me and to my family too.
And my dreams for the future won't come cheap.
Don't sell yourselves short.
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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You are just the guy I've been looking for...
Whenever I find a shop like yours I send them all the "crap" work ...it keeps them busy and out of my hair for all the high profit good work.
Not only that but I can "sub' out to them and sometimes even get a shop discount rate because I'm in the trade.
Sounds like nirvana to me ...
Keep up the good work...oh and what ever you do don't raise your profits or your goals, you'd only have to compete and after all why would you want to do that?
Are you sure this will leave you any time (or enough money) to get to a live meet?
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
Mike- You been reading to many Tom Clancy books...we don't "rely" on anyone to protect us... Let us keep this above the belt, and the next time someone posts like this, just ignore him (except Karyn-haha go get'em Karyn!!). The worst thing we can do is legitimize his inflammatory drivel by replying!! If a bonehead falls out of a tree and no-one is there to hear him, did he still make a sound?
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you Posts: 359 | From: NS Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I know someone that spent MILLIONS of dollars outfitting a company to do large format digital. Came from a totally different industry with the same ideas as this "sign-guy"-- "When I saw how much mark-up the local sign guy was charging, I figured there was a killing to be made in this business...." That seems to be a philosophy with these start-ups sooooo often. They think that the cost of the raw materials goes up ten-fold for a selling price, taking no account of; a) Quality b) Reputation c) Quality (again!) d) Layout and Design e) Physical work time f) Paying heat, light, hydro, equipment lease g) Overall skill and reputation
I know that I don't do any business with someone who has lame signage! I agree----if I had a job come thru the door I didn't want to do, I'd gladly send the customer down the road to a so called professional like this.
To quote Steve; "I just got off the phone with Roger. It was a very brief conversation, but he is for real. His main biz is discount furniture."
posted
Ted, I agree with your abc's of what those lame"discount" guys forget, but one comment many of replies here made was:
quote: I agree----if I had a job come thru the door I didn't want to do, I'd gladly send the customer down the road to a so called professional like this.
On Steve's thread for figuring out our hourly rate, I read this great link he posted by Bob Stevens. Bob made a good point that I think is rather obvious to many of us, but somewhat contrary to replies to this Roger bozo in question. There are "discount" shops that are professional, although maybe not always quite of the letterhead persuasion. The referrals we make are a reflection on us, & some folks that may need a discount job at this point, may really want a higher quality sign from you when they can afford it, so be careful with your referrals.
posted
there's nothing wrong with $20/hour. on some days i'd be happy at that. that's $40K/year -- if you have no expenses -- and MORE if you're working more than 40 hours/week.
of coures, you gotta charge for time you spent: on phone with customer showing font list to customer calling customer back for check writing the invoice in the bathroom calling the supplier chatting with the driver on the Bulletin Board chatting about the sign.
So that 2' x 4' "Open from 8 til 5" corroplast sign only costs the customer...
$2 materials $80.00 labor (4 hours) === $82 -- hey, that's a deal! its$2 less than the sign pricing guide price.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
We have a similar situation in my town where one of the biggest Commercial real estate saleman has gone around beating up every sign shop on prices. He has ****ed off everyone to the point where nobody will make signs for him, so he opened up his own shop.
Ahhh... There's nothing like the smell of fresh changable letters in the morning like on his shop (main copy) - need a sign anyone?
-------------------- Brian Diver PDQ Signs Everett, Wa
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It's not like they have any military to keep us from taking over either, cause they rely on the US to protect them.
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Since Roger is no longer allowed to post & therefore will not be able to further stir the pot, lets get into a nationalistic North American pi$$ing match among friends.
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