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sorry no time to type right now.............got a bunch of signs to make!
-------------------- Aaron Haynes Aaron's Signs & Windows Napa Ca aa4signs@sbcglobal.net ------------ Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two" ------------ If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes. Posts: 241 | From: Napa Ca. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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karen, just kill them all and let god sort them out.
-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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glenn.....you have to ask? ill splian it...you posted DUMB things that anti war protestors say, and all i did was post some dumb thing a real religious person said.....just to show you that i can find dumb stuff that other people say just like you found dumb stuff anti war protestors said. if i belived that ALL PROTESTORS where that dumb....then all what i posted you should believe ALL RELIGIOUS people are that dumb!!!!! see what cut and paste can do?
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Karen that letter was written by the Terry Jones he of Monty Python fame, I think you missed the point mind you Eddie Izzard did say that "Humour is wasted on the Americans"
[ February 27, 2003, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: Stephen Broughton ]
-------------------- Steve Broughton Alpha Grafix Signs Lowfields Road Benington, Boston Lincolnshire, England Posts: 315 | From: Boston, Lincolnshire, England | Registered: Aug 2001
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Karen says right there who wrote it. What's to miss? It's not like theres any deep hidden meaning to Terry's humor. Maybe you missed Karen's point in posting it.
As for English humor, a lot of seemingly worthless drivel is wasted on Americans... Many of us Yanks may just want something a little more thought provoking in our humor. But, I know I'm guilty of a bit of tunnelvision & not at all well traveled out of the states, so you could be right, it might all be way over my head & I'll never know.
Feel free to enlighten us if you really think there is something there besides basic satire.
quote:Originally posted by Doug Allan: to imply that any opposition to declaring war on Iraq, constitutes support of a "regime which murders its citizens..." makes an otherwise well thought out & articulate opinion lose all credability. End Quote.
1. This statement drops the context in which it was made. Let's try again: 3. The current administration fully understands that NO decision it makes will satisfy those who protest against a war with Iraq. The motivation of the protest leaders is far deeper than the current situation, the Iraq crisis is an opportunity, not a cause, for these protests. Further, the nature of the Iraqi regime and its actions are an established fact. This is a regime which murders its citizens and wars with its neighbors, in violation of the moral standards of every enlightened human being. To support such a regime, as an excuse for villifying a political or ideological opponent, is a destestable act of hypocrisy.
I'm actively interested in a non-military solution that will remove the current Iraqi regime. However, observations of the results of sanctions and inspection protocals of the past eleven years tells me that these methods have not been successful, and show no sign of being successful anytime soon. As to what constitutes "support for a regime that murders its citizens...", we have activists and protest leaders that have actively sought to defend the continued existence of the SH regime, to the extent of offering themselves as "human shields". (As an aside, I have a friend, an African-American, leutenant in the Air Force, who has confided that he would find deep personal satisfaction in seeing Jesse Jackson through a bombsight over Iraq. Not my opinion, just something I thought I would share.) I realize that not all protesters have expressed this level of support (what else would you call it?) for the Iraqi regime, and to imply that I would include anyone who opposes military action with those individuals is a stretch.
To quote Doug again:
America's leaders are "protesting" Iraq's proven inability to play nice in the global sandbox.
I feel that... "The motivation of the (Presidential)protest leaders is far deeper than the current situation, the Iraq crisis is an opportunity, not a cause, for these (Presidential)protests. Further, the nature of (America's Presidential administration) and its actions are an established fact. This is a (administration) which... wars with its neighbors, in violation of the moral standards of every enlightened human being." End quote.
This adminstrations "wars with its neighbors, in violation of the moral standards of every enlightened human being."?? Pray, tell, Doug, where exactly has this happened? I must have missed something. When exactly was nerve gas used to kill anyone who opposes Bush? When exactly did the US military, under this administration, invade Canada? You are seriously comparing the moral standards of the Bush adminisrtation to the regime of Saddam Hussien? As I said, I realize that moral relevancy is a common argument of th Left, but you are going to have to do MUCH better if you are going to convince me. Really, Doug, I'm surprised at you. Up to now I had a lot more respect for your position.
quote by Doug: 4.Again I agree. Particularly this comment "The sad fact is, sooner or later there will be a war over Iraq." Even sadder is that there will most likely be further acts of terrorism against America, & there may be possibly preventable attrocities committed by SH, before the world joins to stop "tolerating" Saddam's "increasingly dangerous level of confrontation and instability..."
If a greater majority of the world worked together (with sanctions & witholding trade of chemicals & arms etc.)to disarm or overthrow Saddam, then I believe this could be acomplished with less risk of escalating worldwide terror, as opposed to reducing it. Unfortunantly, it may take more disasters to bring the world together on this. If America acts without the support of much of the world, I fear more harm then good may result. end quote.
My point exactly, Doug. The same countries that are so "morally opposed" to overthrowing the SH regime are buying his oil, then taking back their own money in selling him the means to make weapons. How exactly does anyone not find this reprehensible?
quote Doug: What do I know? I may be way off on that fear, but right now, thats my fear. If 007 or Jason Bourne, or one of Robert Ludlum's protagonists could rappel under cover of darkness, & wrap a garrote around Saddam's neck, & somehow insert a more ethical government, I'd vote now, but America's ground war in Iraq without global support does not yet have my vote.
As I said before, Doug, I appreciate your position. I don't expect to convince anyone; my post was to demonstrate HOW I PERSONALLY have been convinced, and reluctantly so, that a military intervention is necessary. I'm not happy about it, but I haven't yet seen a convincing alternative. Unfortunately, secret agents from Ludlum novels are not presently available options.
I'm 47 years old. I was a year too young for the Vietnam draft, but I clearly remember the protests of the time, which ultimatly brought a withdrawal from that conflict. I particularly remember the passionate opposition to the involvement in Cambodia. At the time that opposition certainly seemed right and reasonable. A few years later we learned how the Khmer Rouge, under Pol Pot (who held a degree in political science from the Sorbonne, in Paris) had murdered over two million people, in the name of socialism.
We have often heard the Left hold the United States accountable for poverty, starvation, and all the ills of the world, demanding apology and restitution. But I have YET to hear anyone on the Left - including those who openly supported the Khmer Rouge during the Vietnman war - offer any form of apology to the people of Cambodia.
I realize that's not directly relevant to the discussion at hand, but if you want to know where I'm coming from in determining my beliefs, that's a good place to start.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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thats to easy glenn....DUMB THINGS THAT PRO WAR PEOPLE SAY: 1."LET JUST GO OVER THERE AND KICK THOSE RAG HEADS A**S" 2."BLOW EM UP" 3."THEY NEED A REGIEM CHANGE" 4."THEY ARE SAME AS AL-QUIDA" 5."KILL EM ALL" 6."BUSH KNOW MORE THEN HES TELLIN US" 7."LOOK HOW SADAM KILLED HIS OWN PEOPLE" 8."WHEN WE GET DONE THERE, THEN WILL GO KICK N.KOREAS A**" 9."YOUR EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US" 10."OSAM BIN LADIN IS DEAD" i can go on....but i think you get the idea. also the whole hawkish approch just amazes me. the american mind is so easily convinced on "who the emeny is". WW 2 it was "THEM KRUATS",THEM SLANT EYED GOOKS". KOREAN WAR, anyone of eastern culture were SLANT EYED BAST***S, SAME WITH VIETNAM. now the world has turned its "NAME CALLING" and hatred to ANY MUSLIM/ARAB looking person/country.. as for anyone who feels that KILLING anyone of any race will change things(unless you belong to the KKK or any NAZI/WHITE SUPEMISIST group)....the're dumber then anything i can post! its like the jewish people, who where themselves the brunt of this kind of thinking. now they are trying to eradicate the palistinians!!!! yep war is the answer....STUPID LEADERS HAVE BEEN WAGING STUPID WARS....as for people who go along with this way of thinking..........to quote a song title "WHEN WILL THEY EVER LEARN?"
[ February 27, 2003, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Cam, I enjoyed reading your reply. I think there is much more value to this topic then sharing thoughts on what effects the current events has on our families etc. I appreciate Steve's tolerance of this topic very much. He has commented though, that as for "political debates" over this or that point of view, we could watch professionals do that on TV. Of course this is true, & much more educated information would be there, somewhere, but I don't think it sinks in very far for me that way.
I don't find opportunities to discuss this situation in my busy workaholic day. I find that reading intelligent posts, weather I agree with some, all, or none of what was said forces me to think in broader terms about something that really isn't worth looking at in narrow terms anyway. I don't know if I'm any more educated, or my views are any more valid to others, but as a result of reading, thinking about, & writing posts here, I feel somewhat more integrated into my world, instead of ducking under it, hoping it won't fall on my head.
quote: As I said before, Doug, I appreciate your position. I don't expect to convince anyone; my post was to demonstrate HOW I PERSONALLY have been convinced, and reluctantly so, that a military intervention is necessary.
I have similar intent in communicating my views so they are seen for a small fraction of the basis upon which they were formed. Not to convince others to share my views. In fact stating my views, or attempting to do so, is a large part of how they are formed & that is the greatest asset, for me, in having this forum. (BTW, I have no interest in other forums, this truly is a community, & conversing elsewhere would never be that same)
In truth, 6 months ago, if I lifted my head up from work long enough to comment, I probably felt we should nuke the fukkers & move on with the apathetic, self-centered capitalism I know & love. Eventually I realized the situation was real enough that I would feel like a stranger in a strange land if I didn't pay attention to my surroundings & get some bearings on where my soul really fit in. I guess thats what they mean by soul searching.
I expect that there will be a war, & I hope I will also, however reluctantly, be convinced that it is neccessary before it happens.
quote: This adminstrations "wars with its neighbors, in violation of the moral standards of every enlightened human being."?? Pray, tell, Doug, where exactly has this happened? I must have missed something. When exactly was nerve gas used to kill anyone who opposes Bush? When exactly did the US military, under this administration, invade Canada? You are seriously comparing the moral standards of the Bush adminisrtation to the regime of Saddam Hussien? As I said, I realize that moral relevancy is a common argument of th Left, but you are going to have to do MUCH better if you are going to convince me. Really, Doug, I'm surprised at you. Up to now I had a lot more respect for your position.
With all the sarcasm & humor that gets mixed in these threads by some, I am tempted to interject some degree of deviation from my own, otherwise thoughtful, commentary. In attempting to take issue with not just Cam's, but others focus on "protest leaders", I copped out a little by attempting to quote Cam's item #3 from the "war on Iraq" thread but changing the names to re-direct the accusations.
It's impossible to recconcile "thou shall not kill" with the world we live in today, but although US has not released poisen gas in Canada, there are many who feel that several little military skirmishes that have occured in my 44 year lifetime, were purly acts of agression with political or economic motivation. I can't speak for "every enlightened being", but this violates my moral standard.
No, I don't think GWB's standards are as low as SH's. Last night they had some interview with the "Preppy Murderer" after his release following 15 years served for strangling a young woman in Central Park. I don't think GWB's standards are that low either, but just because the "preppy" does not appear to be quite as bad a monster as JW Gacy, or Manson, that doesn't make him innocent.
posted
Thanks Doug I'm a lover of satire and would love to have Stephen tell me what I missed I have taken part in several of our local protests, and plan on continuing... until someone can explain to me what part of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" they find faulty.
-------------------- Karen Sartain,'Pisel' on chat 11699 E Hwy 181 Willcox, Arizona 85643
We are not human beings on a spiritual journey.We are spiritual beings on a human journey."-Stephen Covey Posts: 336 | From: Chiricahua National Monument, Az | Registered: Nov 1998
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Well Karen, it first helps to know that the Old Testament in the original Hebrew does not say Thou Shalt not Kill."
It says Thou shalt not do murder.
There is a big difference between the two.
It is also important to note that the same God that gave that Commandment is also the same God that gave the Hebrew instructions on how to conquer Canaan.
[ February 27, 2003, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
Doug, thanks for the response. Believe it or not, I thought about what I wrote all day, hoping it would not be taken offensively.
As I said, I'm willing to have someone offer an alternative to a military attack that produces a positive result, that being a major change to the Iraqi regime. I just don't see one. As for the "arguments" offered by most of the antiwar activists, from what I've heard, it consists of the same old slogans and empty rhetoric. I have yet to hear a position from the left I can respect, much less agree with.
At some point, when I have time and I feel it is appropriate, I'll tell the story of the conversation I had in a pub in Prague with an Englishman, an avowed socialist, on the subject of 9/11 and of America in general. It was as enlightening as it was appalling.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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well, excuuuussseee me Murder, Kill..whatever...the fact is dropping bombs on innocent people and calling it collateral damage still makes them DEAD. Which is not what my understanding and vision of America is all about. I may not have memorized the Bible or even profess to have read it all, but I do know in my heart the difference between right and wrong.
-------------------- Karen Sartain,'Pisel' on chat 11699 E Hwy 181 Willcox, Arizona 85643
We are not human beings on a spiritual journey.We are spiritual beings on a human journey."-Stephen Covey Posts: 336 | From: Chiricahua National Monument, Az | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Just out of curiosity, I have a few questions for the Anti-War folk.
Lets assume that war is averted and that inspections are to continue.
1) Given Saddam's record of ducking, dodging and generally dragging his feet, how much longer should the inspections continue?
2) And, assuming they have as much success as they've had these past 12 years, how much longer will it take before war is considered appropriate?
3) If Blix reports that Saddam is not complying with the resolutions or if Saddam refused to destroy the missles as ordered by Blix, will you support a war to remove Saddam?
Considering the 1.5 million Iraqi killed by Saddam and the 500,000 Iraqi children killed by the sanctions (as reported by Albright), which would be better -- allowing Saddam to remain in power or risk war to remove him knowing that some innocent Iraqi will die but the survivors will be given a chance at freedom?
Given your stance on the matter, would you have supported the anti-war movement of 1939?
[ February 27, 2003, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
glenn wasnt round in WW2 cant say how i woulda acted....IT WAS A DIFFERENT WORLD!!!! my dad and uncles were there.....and neither one of them wanted me to go to VIETNAM!!!! comparisons between hitler and sadam ....lets add geo w. and yes i see a lot of simalrities..........
[ February 28, 2003, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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did i say anything about KILLING...seems that your only point....STUPID was my simalarity....and ego......and that line glenn geo should take it to heart....just like his daddy shoulda.....iam anti war because I REMEMBER VIETNAM....you aperently dont!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Glenn are you saying that There has been nobody killed, because of US Foreign Policy? this is my opinion... The US Should act with the support of the UN, I hope that Canada stays out of this mess until the UN is behind America. Untill then Keep the Inspections going. Another thing, Why not send Thousands of Inspectors over to Iraq, instead of Thousands of Kids to get Killed, and WHO CARES How long the Inspections continue, another 10 years, 20 years, Saddam will eventually Drop Dead anyway. This War could go on for Years just Like Israel and the Palistinians.
Just my humble Opinion.
[ February 28, 2003, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: Neil D. Butler ]
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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quote: Glenn are you saying that There has been nobody killed, because of US Foreign Policy?
Hardly. But to compare Bush to Hitler and Saddam is ridiculous.
I wonder how many consider Neville Chamberlain's Foreign Policy and how many deaths were attributed to waiting until it was too late. 70 million?
---
Yes OP, I remember Vietnam. Both of my uncles went. Both support Bush in the matter with Saddam as well. Simple fact is that if Congress hadn't tried to micro-manage the Vietnam war and let the military do its job, we would have won with a lot fewer casualties. Of that, I'm convinced.
And, no, you didn't say anything about "killing". You didn't have to.
---
I'm still waiting for someone to answer my questions.
posted
Up to a few posts ago, this was still a reasonably polite debate. I would hate to see that change. Please, everyone, before hitting the submit button, take a moment to walk away from the keyboard, and when you come back, don't neglect the delete key. It helps. Ask me how I know.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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1."LET JUST GO OVER THERE AND KICK THOSE RAG HEADS A**S"
Yep. We all felt that way on 9/11.
---
2."BLOW EM UP"
Depends on who "they" are. If you are talking about Al Qaeda, Taliban and Saddam, you're darn right.
---
3."THEY NEED A REGIEM CHANGE"
Who is "they"? If you are refering to Iraq, I agree. They do. They don't need a brutal, sadistic dictator who rapes, tortures and murders anyone who opposes him.
---
4."THEY ARE SAME AS AL-QUIDA"
Who said that?
---
5."KILL EM ALL"
Who's saying that?
---
6."BUSH KNOW MORE THEN HES TELLIN US"
He probably does.
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7."LOOK HOW SADAM KILLED HIS OWN PEOPLE"
And?
--- 8."WHEN WE GET DONE THERE, THEN WILL GO KICK N.KOREAS A**"
Who said that? Not Bush. North Korea is upset that Bush is ignoring them.
---
9."YOUR EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US"
In the context of the speech, which are you? For the terrorists or against?
---
10."OSAM BIN LADIN IS DEAD"
Now they are saying he's alive. Personally, I'm glad he is alive and not buried in some rubble somewhere. It means we won't have to endure 50 years of someone claiming that he's channeling Usama's ghost along with Elvis'.
[ February 28, 2003, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
I'm going to interlude with a funnie here. One that most everyone can laugh at. I'm sure it is not pointed at our French Canadian friends.
QUOTE OF THE DAY:
"GOING TO WAR WITHOUT FRANCE IS LIKE GOING DEER HUNTING WITHOUT YOUR ACCORDION" - DONALD RUMSFELD
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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Jack- I saw that news broadcast last week- I almost fell off the couch laughing, but I missed who said it...I'm glad you had the courage to post it!!
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you Posts: 359 | From: NS Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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glenn....you cant see anything beyond your point of view. not a personel attack, just seems anything i say in defence of my position, you dismiss it as trivial. as for responding to the statements i made....all you need to do is LISTEN....the world is making a loud noise AGAINST THIS WAR.....you and yours choose to ignore it and stand your ground. i said i see simalarities between hitler, sadam , bush, cheney, rumsfeld, geo sr....and ill stand by that. i made the statement STUPID LEADERS CREATE STUPID WARS....i stand by that. if i need to explain that to you then you need to broadin your thinking. its not a one dimensional statement. people who start wars, arent thinking people hence to me they are STUPID. be it hitler, sadam, bin laden, herohito, bush! most of these fore named were EGO DRIVEN. meaning they dont care what others think, only what they think is RIGHT!(and you dont care what france, germany or china thinks) as for the 10 answers you came back with.....if thats how you see it then my viewpoint is IRRELEVANT. all i can say is when all is done....we will see who was wrong or right.....and we have to live with our choices.
[ February 28, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I take my accordion deer hunting all the time. Ya see....ya take those reeds out and substitute deer grunt calls.......one for each key. One key is for a fawn bleat....one for a dominant buck grunt.....one for a doe-in heat....and so on. Man you can call up all kinds of deer with one of them things.
Wouldn't hurt my feelings if we just let China, Russia and France have the UN.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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and that is supposed to be one of our intelligent leaders? to make statements like that is no different then when the german statesman called bush stupid, or the chinese statesman....who said near the same thing, or the canadian....who made a derogatory remark about bush. those who support bush found those statements OFFENSIVE, and countries like france, when one of our top leaders makes a remark like that find it OFFENSIVE...... apperently this countries leaders dont care who they insult. but to a war monger....they DONT CARE WHO THEY INSULT!!!! ive said it before..the U.S. is like an abused dog.....its gona bite someone...and it dont care who it is....even if its the one offering to help heal its wounds.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by old paint: glenn....you cant see anything beyond your point of view.
Joe, I've been reading and more than occasionally responding to your posts for what, three or four years now? If ANYONE on this forum is guilty of that statement, it's you. Not a personal attack, Joe, just an observation and a suggestion to take a quick glance in a mirror once in a while.
Glenn can be pedantic, and he certainly has his opinions. He also goes to some length to make coherent arguments, and backs them up with a lot of factual information.
Your style is different, to say the least. You "shoot from the hip" with emotional statements, frequently based on your personal biases (we all have them, don't get excited); the problem with that is two-fold: One, your writing styles are often difficult to understand, and two, you leave yourself wide open by making claims you can't back up. Then when someone like Glenn refutes your position or embarrasses you, you get upset and become offensive, or you make statements (like that one above) that are filled with unintentional self-parody.
All I'm trying to say, Joe, is that if you are going to enter into a debate with someone, it takes more than just offering an unsupported opinion, then claiming that anyone who disagrees with you is automatically closed-minded, or brainwashed, or has some ulterior motive. You have some strong opinions, and some of them have real merit. Glenn does his homework, and he knows what he's talking about. If you are going to convince anyone he's wrong, you are going to have to start doing the same thing.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Glenn, I hesitate to invest in a reply because I feel like many efforts to communicate are recieved as purly an opportunity to seek grammatical, semantical or technical error. I think more then communication, several exchanges have become waiting for the next turn at boring one another. Particularily the cut & paste stuffings.
What you think on this topic is fairly clear, as are my own thoughts I'm sure. IMO, at this point, why you choose your opinion seems more worth saying if you say anything at all on this topic.
You seem to want to keep your opposition "on the ropes" & defensive against your line of questioning. I can see though, that your questions are a reflection of your justification for your views, so I will respect that as your literary style here.
So I will try to come up with some replies for you.
quote: 1) Given Saddam's record of ducking, dodging and generally dragging his feet, how much longer should the inspections continue?
1. I like Neil's idea! Inspections are probably inhibiting further development of WMD's & if more inspectors serve as more of an impedance, then maybe they should go on indefinantly. I don't see SH unleashing his weapons at us under the current circumstances, so although an expensive "stalemate" of our troops poised on the brink of war is not a condition anyone want's to prolong, but it still may be better to continue it then bearing the consequences of an all out charge.
quote:2) And, assuming they have as much success as they've had these past 12 years, how much longer will it take before war is considered appropriate?
2. I would like to think that the approach of sanctions & trade restriction etc. could have a much greater impact if nearly all the civilized world joined in a non-military approach at forcing SH to disarm. Also I disagree that threats of attack without actual attack have no value. I think that our Military as a deterrant is already working, as just today the topic of destroying long range missles seems to be swaying our way. (I'll believe it when I see it, but being an optimist, I think we will see it) The real answer to your question, to me, would be when the world at large considers war appropriate. At least then some of the backlash to US would be eliminated, & hopefully some of the chance at finding a peaceful solution through greater involvement from the rest of the world would have at least had a chance to work.
quote:3) If Blix reports that Saddam is not complying with the resolutions or if Saddam refused to destroy the missles as ordered by Blix, will you support a war to remove Saddam?
[B]3. I see it as a global problem, not an American problem. I am not claiming to be an expert military or political analyst. If the global community can reach a consensus to declare war on Iraq, I would have a lot less reservations.[/B
posted
cam, thanks....all iam saying with out more dialog....is WAR IS NOT THE GOING TO END THE PROBLEMS..... and as it has in the past create more problems. those who see it as the end all, cure all....only see imediate. and this one will be no different then the last 3...korea,nam, and afganastan.....world occupation will not stop the HATE!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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