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The term "Eco-solvent" seems to imply that such inks are environmentally and/or user friendly...or perhaps that they are somehow more ecologically sound than regular solvent inks.
I would like to invite any manufacturers of "Eco-solvent" printers or inks who happen to be looking in on this site to explain what "Eco-solvent" means, exactly.
Perhaps you could post a link to MSDS for your inks and/or explain the differences between "Eco-solvent" and just plain "solvent".
No pixie-dust, please...just the facts.
Thanks in advance!
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Just bumping, because I would like to hear what the eco-solvent is all about
-------------------- Glenn Thompson Tell-Tale Signs Williams Lake, BC sign@telus.net (250)398-7446 Posts: 201 | From: Williams Lake, BC | Registered: Dec 2000
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bump looks like they might not want to give us too much info...
-------------------- Glenn Thompson Tell-Tale Signs Williams Lake, BC sign@telus.net (250)398-7446 Posts: 201 | From: Williams Lake, BC | Registered: Dec 2000
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Hi Jon- looking at the GSP site I noticed that the new Jetster inkjet printer from Gerber uses eco- solvent inks. Do you sell these? Perhaps you could get the answer for us from GSP? I am starting to look at wider format than the edge (almost paid off) and this is of interst to me. thanks Gene
posted
Hi Jon! We use a Soljet printer here and its classed as an eco ink machine. Iguess its called that because it uses less ink than a full blown solvent printer because, I think, its mixed with oil. Therefore there is a lot less smell and less ink usage. Great machine for our business, we havent wondered if we did the wrong thing in buying it, it has turned our business around.
-------------------- Greg Baker Sign City 14 Milton Circuit Port Macquarie NSW 2444 signcity1@bigpond.com Posts: 48 | From: australia | Registered: Oct 2002
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Glen its a pleasure to meet you mate, The answer to your question is "both". I originaly bought it to help me get through the work load, but while the machine was printing away customers were seeing what it could do and before you know it they were inwith jobs for it to do. Im a qualified hand writer, have been for nearly 20 years, so the work I was doing was big like cars, walls, shopfronts, etc. So when I bought the machine I wasnt ready for short run stickers, posters, full colour banners, full body wraps, etc,etc. Turn my business around, thats an understatement!Look out when, if we ever have to,we advertise the machine.
-------------------- Greg Baker Sign City 14 Milton Circuit Port Macquarie NSW 2444 signcity1@bigpond.com Posts: 48 | From: australia | Registered: Oct 2002
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We got a soljet too, mainly to compliment our hifi jet, but wow what a machine! We went for the 'eco' part because we share a building with a coffee shop so the fumes would be a problem, and I have my kids with me a the shop when they aren't in school. The nice thing about these new eco-friendly machines is you don't have to print 24/7 to keep the heads clean. For a while I didn't print for a week just cut and the thing just keeps on going. I know speed is an issue, but we printed a 4'x12' sign face, full color in 1.75 hours on vinyl, another hour to apply to aluminum and clear coat. 2.75 hours for a $650 job... not bad.
-------------------- Eric Patzer A.S.A.P. Design Lafayette, CO epatzer@earthlink.net Posts: 208 | From: Lafayette, CO USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Epatzer! SHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Keep it quiet mate, if everyone finds out about how good the Sollie is then they will all want one, and that will be the end of our huge profit margins. Remeber mate keep this just between you and me, TELL NOBODY!
-------------------- Greg Baker Sign City 14 Milton Circuit Port Macquarie NSW 2444 signcity1@bigpond.com Posts: 48 | From: australia | Registered: Oct 2002
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forgot too mention that the inks never dry, they practically run off the vinyl in a misting rain, the cutting is as slow as a Pinto going uphill...
whew, that was close...
-------------------- Eric Patzer A.S.A.P. Design Lafayette, CO epatzer@earthlink.net Posts: 208 | From: Lafayette, CO USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Regarding the SolJet, we are using one to develop a new product line of print/cut vehicle graphics, and I must say, that the machine is very, very capable. If I had a sign business, I sure would have one, or something just like it.
It prints beautifully on everything from canvas to vinyl, including a poly silk fabric. In our experience, the roll of fresh vinyl that we are printing on, usually has more odor than the inks.
-------------------- Andrew Holmes Vector Art Inc Pacific Grove, CA 93950
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Regarding the SolJet, we are using one to develop a new product line of print/cut vehicle graphics, and I must say, that the machine is very, very capable. If I had a sign business, I sure would have one, or something just like it.
It prints beautifully on everything from canvas to vinyl, including a poly silk fabric. In our experience, the roll of fresh vinyl that we are printing on, usually has more odor than the inks.
-------------------- Andrew Holmes Vector Art Inc Pacific Grove, CA 93950
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Andrew; Print quality sounds good. What material(s) are you looking at printing on??? Good ole regular sign-guy vinyl----it's not coated is it? Will your SolJet print to 3M Hi-Perf vinyl. Or Avery? How about calendered offerings? Enquiring minds want to know. We've all heard sooooo many things about solvent printers, or ecos. I tried a Mimaki JV3 here with less than stellar results when it came to abrasion resist, plus chemical resist.
I do hock other products (Gerber), yes. But I'm more interested in all of us learning the plain facts so that we all have definite answers---I don't want to be seen as fishing or slagging the competition.
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We have experimented with One of Roland's roll laminates with a Daige laminator ($1500 bucks) with excellent reults. It is very tough, super glossy and make the hi-res colors really pop.
We have also experimented with a special laminate designed for floor graphics which is really super tough and not as glossy. It also works very well on the Daige laminator, and gives an excellent result.
As to what media, etc., etc., you will find all the info at www.roland.com, or you can also get there via the www.vectorart.com site. It is hard to designate exactly what is printible because it is a work in progress and there are new substrates certified every few days or weeks for the SolJet.
-------------------- Andrew Holmes Vector Art Inc Pacific Grove, CA 93950
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As wonderful as the Soljet sounds Im still skeptical from being burned so many times in the past with new unproven technologies and flat out manufacturer claims and misrepresentations.
I am watching and listening closely though. I wont be so quick to jump on any bandwagons any time soon.
Speaking of the Daige laminator? How is that working out for you. I just looked at them yesterday on there website and am seriously considering gettting one.
I didnt see any mention on the costs of the laminates. I know the cold films are more costly than the heated films but I wouldnt have a need for high volume laminating...
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
The Daige is a very basic hands on design and without any extra bells and whistles.
We only use it once in awhile for testing so it is fine for our purposes. I do not know how it would hold up or how easy is is to use compared to more expensive and elaborate devices.
There is a technique to using the thing and it is easier with two people for wide stuff. I suspect it would work out just fine for a small shop.
-------------------- Andrew Holmes Vector Art Inc Pacific Grove, CA 93950
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Some answers to some questions regarding the Sollie. For vehicles we use the Avery Cast vinyl, excellent conformability, good dry time and we use Oneshot UV clear on our car stuff. No failures yet...
As for the Daige quickmount laminator... Well mixed feelings here. Good for mounting or apply graphics to a substrate, up to 1/2" thick. But not good at all for laminating, you need a 'sled' for the material to sit on to go through the machine, and the motor isn't strong enough to really crank down the pressure of the rollers, unless you want to push the piece through...
-------------------- Eric Patzer A.S.A.P. Design Lafayette, CO epatzer@earthlink.net Posts: 208 | From: Lafayette, CO USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Bob, If you're looking for a laminator I can recommend without reservations the seal 600d. It's built like a tank. Sets the down force with pnuematic pressure. Works great hot or cold. We haven't had a problem in four years and we use it for everything from laminating and mounting to laying reflective onto full sheets of dibond or mdo. You can gap it up to about 1". I have laminated 4'x'8' x 3/4" mdo with it, ... probably not what the manufacturer had in mind but it works.
Eric - How are you applying the oneshot clear?
Jon - Did you get any info from Gerber on 'Eco-Solvent' ?
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Mike; I will be getting some training and insight on Gerber's new JETSTER Eco-Solvent printer in the coming 2 weeks. I will post some findings afterwards. YES, I sell the stuff, but I am pretty objective when it comes to equipment....
Since you're asking, I thought I'd jump in with what I know / believe to be the case regarding eco-solvents. However, given your position at a company owned by Gerber, this may not be entirely new information.
Eric's comment is a pretty good window:
quote:forgot too mention that the inks never dry, they practically run off the vinyl in a misting rain ...
The output also requires specially coated media (inkjet receptive) and lamination for outdoor durability.
Hence, eco-solvent = pigment. It's not what has come to be known as "solvent" visa vie Arizona printers and the like.
But heck, water is a solvent. So one could reasonably call any ink a "solvent" ... whether or not the solvent penetrates vinyl, or merely an inkjet receptive coating on vinyl, in my mind is the difference between a true solvent inkjet printer and a pigment machine.
However Roland's machine, with it's Epson printhead, has killer output if you don't mind laminating for outdoor use. The image quality is superior to anything your company or ours makes (or OEMs).
But neither of us needs to look for work Thermal transfer offers many advantages that vinyl sign shops find particularly valuable.
Regards,
Jim
-------------------- Jim Doggett General Manager, USA Yellotools, Ltd www.yellotools.com Posts: 500 | From: Sherman, TX USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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As I understand it, the Daige laminator uses a sled in order to keep the adhesive off the bottom roller. How do other (non-heated) laminators aviod the glue on the roller problem? Does he 600D use a sled?
-------------------- Andrew Holmes Vector Art Inc Pacific Grove, CA 93950
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Depends what we're doing with it. If needed (rarely) we use (and reuse, and reuse...) waste sintra (comes as packaging for dibond)as a 'sled'. If we're feeding full rigid sheets 48" wide with a 50" film we don't worry about the 1" of adhesive getting on each end of the bottom roller. Cleanup is quick & easy, we just warm the roller to 125f and clean with a rubber block and a damp rag, takes only a couple of minutes (and no chemicals used). If we're laminating 36" vinyl we use a 36" film, cleanup is minor, at most 1/2" misregistration between the 2 rolls. We run about a foot of 48" wide kraft paper (cheap) just to web the laminator without sticking to the bottom roller. We 'park' the laminator with a couple of inches of paper on the feed-in side and then set the vinyl over that to start the job, another piece of kraft paper at the end of the job keeps it clean. If we're doing a lot of laminating we put 2 sheets of vinyl back-to-back and laminate both side at once. Trim the edges to separate. We do laminate before cutting. The 3 point registration on the Graphtec makes cut registration easy & accurate. It even allows you to compensate for laminator stretch. Printing & cutting are both done directly from Coreldraw.
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