posted
I am trying to find a way to make sandblasted signs reflective. I have tried using glass beads, but run into a few problems. First - if you apply glass beads to paint before it dries the glass beads stick, but not well at all. A little weather and a couple months and your going to be kicking yourself. I have found a solution to this problem. If you are trying to make the raised letters of a sandblasted/routed sign reflective then apply a thin coat of 2 part epoxy resin to the cured painted surface. Imediatley after applying the epoxy spread your glass beads over the epoxy. After it dries it will never come off....ever. I should know because this brings me to my second problem. Second - if you make a sandblasted sign with dark color text and border (raised) and light color background (blasted)and make the text reflective using glass beads an interesting/frustrating thing happens. At night when light hits your reflective sign the dark color paint illuminates and becomes a bright color. That bright color in little contrast to your light color background makes your text appear to DISAPPEAR. Like i said i should know because this happend to me. After the signs (15)were installed i had to sand off the epoxyed glass beads on site. It took a couple days, a lot of sand paper & a little blood & tears. If you have read all of this rambleing message (and poor spelling) then i thank you and this brings me to my actual question. Does anybody have a good way to make sandblasted signs reflective? I have thought about vinyl, but i just don't think that would hold up to well. PLEASE HELP
-------------------- Steve Fellows Momentum Signs 110 Pine Street Mountain Park, GA 30075 momentum@charter.net Posts: 2 | From: Atlanta, GA. USA | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I've always mixed the glass beads directly into the wet paint (in the bucket) and then painted the sign. When the paint is dry simply rub the dried paint a little with a cloth to expose the surface beads and woo hoo reflective sign !
Or you could buy reflective paint...3M makes a great product ! would you have guessed ?
Hope that helps !
-------------------- Steve Aycock Designs 3489 Oswald St. Johns Island, SC zaor@warpdriveonline.com Posts: 124 | From: Charleston, SC | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I once put cutout letters on a brown building, they were covered with silver mylar, they reflected the brown building across from it and totally dissappeared, Guess you have to include that in your design. You Could maybe light the sign at night? Or use Flourescent paint? If you put beads on all of it, using clear epoxy, wouldn't it all show up then?
Bill
[ February 05, 2003, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Bill Biggs ]
-------------------- Bill & Barbara Biggs Art's Sign Service, Inc. Clute, Texas, USA Home of The Great Texas Mosquito Festival Proud 10 year Supporter of the Letterheads Website www.artssigns.com "MrBill-" on the chat page MailTo:biggsbb@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1020 | From: Lake Jackson,Tx | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I posted a similar topic several months ago and got some good replies, with a slight consensis towards using glass beads. I had forty five signs to do and chickened out and used reflective vinyl instead.I cut the mask with an outline welded to the letter, so the raised letters were 1/8" oversized all the way around. Then I finished as usual, only put an extra coat of one shot over the letters to give them a good gloss, using the same color as the background. When the actual vinyl went on that edge all the way around hid all the slight imperfections of the blast, and made a nice appearing sign.
The only thing that still bothers me is the longevity of the vinyl. When the vinyl gets too old, the signs will still be good, so what do you do, strip off the old vinyl and put on new? I'm thinking the glass beads would have been better, when you look at the fact that they could be repainted and rebeaded pretty easily.....
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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It is really much easier than you know...I do it all the time.
When you cut your blast mask out line all your letters (at least a 1/4") depending on the size of the letter.
Paint your sign with the finish you desire then paint the raised letter areas with enamel (One Shot) works great...usually darker than the background.
After everything has cured (a day or so) cut your letters out of scotchlite (anyone of a half dozen colors)less the border... then apply them to the raised (lettering area) the letter has a nice border for confirmation of the letter and the relfective will last about 5 to 8 years.
You'll be repainting the sign before the scotchlite goes bad.
"Werks fer me it'll werk fer you"
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
We bought 50 lbs of glass beads, used a cup full doing experiments, didn't like the results. Now if anyone knows what to do with 5 gal of glass beads, I'm open to suggestions.
The best one I've heard is to go to the mall and sprinkle the floor making an instant ball bearing adventure for the people with hard soles.
Another one is- build a james bond type attachment for the shop truck. Is that guy too close with his high beams on?, just dump a gallon of glass beads on the next curve.
ernie
-------------------- Ernie Balch Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 518-885-9899 Posts: 405 | From: Malta, NY | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I use Monte's method but instead of paint I use the epoxy finish now sold thru SignFoam called Dura Shine as a base coat. Hard as a rock and very durable. It will make it easier to remove the reflective vinyl for replacement down the road.
All products have a specific life and if the customer wants reflective letters he is just going to have to live with the normal lifespan of the product.
I've heard a couple coats of Pelucid will extend the life of reflective vinyl but I've never tried it. I figure a re-do of the reflective is a nice little piece of business down the road.
posted
Dave...I've tried the epoxy thing but wasn't happy with the results on wood...the wood expands and contracts but the epoxy didn't and after about ayear hte epoxy was popping off.The enamel stays flexible and I have never had a failure this way. I could see the epoxy on foam tho ...altho I've not tried it!
Also clear coating over the reflective vinyl "Kills" its reflectivity some. I feel it's better to leave it to the elements it wwas designed for.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
Steve, I agree with using the vinyl reflective. The problem with glass beads or the reflective paint is that in the rain water collects in the rough surface and kills the reflectivity just like a water sheen kills the striping on a highway. The reflective paint is not a paint like we know it, it is more of a paste and does not flow - hard to work with shaping letters. I think I read once it was originally developed to stencil markings on railroad cars. It has its place but not necessarly on a sign.
The step up from the regular reflective vinyl (engineer grade) is high intensity. It has a longer life expectancy but it is the honeycomb looking stuff and likely not the effect you would want on a sandblasted sign. It is made for high hazard warning and for us older people that can see as good at night no more going down the highway - originally developed for the Coast Gaurd and bouys, etc. It is also more tricky to cut on your plotter.
If you really think you are going to need to replace the reflective, give second thoughts to clear coating. 3M does make a good clear coat that will not kill the reflective. It is actually a clear process color for screen printing (and sometimes marketed as an edge sealer)and I I have used it to seal conspicuity striping on dump truck boxes that are subject to a lot of abuse and it does not effect the reflectivity at all. But, if you seal the material in you have to break that seal to get it out and off.
Consider the welded outline trick as suggested and also allow enough to do a two layered letter so you can apply a 2 mil premium vinyl overlaid with the reflective (i.e. you may have a gold reflective letter with a black outline or a similiar combination). Prep it as you would any background for vinyl application so you are confident it will stay there. If you do have to remove it, the regular vinyl is much easier to remove (reflective is a little more aggressive and leaves more residue)and since the reflective is on top of the regular vinyl it will come right off. However, I agree with Monte, you will likely need to repaint the sign before you need to replace the reflective.
Hope this may help. Let us all know how you come out
-------------------- Robert Graham Grahamsville Signs 1120 E McReavy Road Union, Washington 98592 360-898-2260 Fax 360-898-2262 e-mail:gvs@hctc.com Posts: 136 | From: Union,Washington - USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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Like i said i should know because this happend to me. After the signs (15)were installed i had to sand off the epoxyed glass beads on site. It took a couple days, a lot of sand paper & a little blood & tears. If you have read all of this rambleing message (and poor spelling) then i thank you and this brings me to my actual question. Does anybody have a good way to make sandblasted signs reflective? I have thought about vinyl, but i just don't think that would hold up to well. PLEASE HELP
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