posted
Just ta show ya a little of what I mean....and just fer kicks.... Check this out.........
What ya need to know first is.......
I've known Keith "Bandit" Ball for a lot of years. Him being the editor of Easyriders for about 20 of them, and consider him a friend. He's featured some of my bikes and work in the magseveral times.
Now he's got www.bikernet.com and you can figger out what that's all about for yourselves...
Her's an article that is complete babbling bull-sh*t, and not one bit of it ever happened, and there's no such person named Snake.......
But this is how things get passed around, and can you imagine 50 years from now, some kid reading all about the Mad-man CJ.......
It will be "FACT"......Hell, I read it in da magazine/book, muss be so............Hhahhahhah
posted
I guess we're all human, and have our good days and bad days. Plus lets face it - not everyone likes or gets along with everyone.
Ryan - Garlits was an arse to me, and acted like I should kiss his ring. A lot of the guys that ran in the same era didnt like him personally, but ALL of them respect and admire him. Most consider him their hero. Lots of stories, and someday when we finally meet (soon I hope) we'll swap'em.
On Ivo - Ivo is/was a great mechanical mind. Ivo always had the bucks, this is true - so he had 1st class stuff. Eldorado's were his tow rigs, before the glass-sided trucks and trailers. He's a 1st class showman, and what most people never think of is he had already been an actor for 20 years before he really got into racing. Something else about that guy - he's a world-class prankster who probably did the 'dumb' stuff on purpose, just to get a rise out of whoever was there. Tommy always laid back on his stuff, and rarely pushed it hard enough to break (breakage costs money, and Ivo is one of the few racers that made money racing). For big races like Indy, he would buy some good parts and run hard, but rarely did he set the world on fire ET wise. He's a wonderful guy, and open to most email questions or conversations should anyone care to talk to him.
On Darrell Waltrip - George, I'm glad you had a good experience with him. I, have not. In fact, I doubt you'll ever find anyone that ran Nascar Sportsman division (now Hooters Pro Cup) that has one good thing to say about the guy. Here's my most memorable 'DW' tale... Pocono, 1993... we ran two 50-lap races there in July each year. Our 'crewchief' had decided to get mad and throw a tantrum before the trip so that left just 3 of us (driver, spotter, and me the one man pitcrew). At the race I found a couple of yankee-wannabe-rednecks who jumped at the chance to be gen-u-ine nascar pit monkeys for the weekend. One of them, ADORED Rusty Wallace. As a gesture of appreciation, I took him on one of the walk-thrus of the bigboys pits to the Unocal station. There, was DW and Rusty having a conversation. So this guy patiently stands about 25ft away and waits for them to finish, before asking for his autograph. A crew member interrupts Rusty for a minute, and DW sees this guy waiting, and assumes it's for him - so he smirks and says "I bet you want my autograph?" This guy didnt really, but hey - here's a big-time Nascar hero, he smiles and says 'yessir that would be great!". Making small talk while DW scrawls his name on this guy's shirt, he says "..got the car dialed in yet?" (it's thursday, second day of tracktime) DW throws the shirt back (he was done at least) and says "Well ya see it sitting here dontcha??" and walks off. This guy is stunned, but about that time Rusty is now alone and can see that this is a Rusty shirt he's carrying and walks up with a big smile and says, "want me to sign that for you?" And for the next 5 minutes, gives this guy some solid, no BS time. The next week, I got to see the race on ESPN and DW was 'color-commentatin'. ALL he could do was put us (our class) down, and say what a bunch of no talent idiots we were, unprofessional, unskilled, didnt deserve to be even at the track much less on it, etc etc... I have never liked that guy since.
I know you guys probably think I'm talking out of my bunghole about some of this stuff, but it's all the truth - verifiable from various sources. I never meant to start any flaming or step on any toes, but that's the way I saw it, heard it or lived it.
I am very glad everyone has shared their feelings and memories. Sometimes a different perspective or experience sheds a whole new light on something you've thought was one way, all your life.
posted
CJ.....your comments about Ed Roth being grumpy.......you may or may NOT be aware that he was a pretty sick dude off and on his last few years. I heard he wore a "bag" for some o' that time! That sure would make ME grumpy (I cant imagine being more grumpy than I already am!)!
posted
Cj I just read the story you had on your post. Damn that is too funny. That is such a good story I dont care if its true or not I am going to tell it for years.
-------------------- Ryan Young Indocil Art & Design indocil@comporium.net 803-980-6765
I highjacked Letterville!! Winter Muster 2004 Posts: 904 | From: Rock Hill, SC | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hahahah.....Yeah Ryan.........that story's gonna be "FACT" any day now.
Bob....Yes knew about Eds health problems, and think his grumpiness came more from a couple of his useless brats than anything else....... (this has been a good thread, so we won't go there)
But bein' grumpy ain't a bad thing, and I liked him......and regardless of anything any of us think or say......... ED"BIG DADDY"Roth was one hell of a guy, and created more really Kool stuff in his lifetime than most of us can even dream of......
RIP ED.......
.....cj
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
posted
This hasta be the greatest thread I ever read!! Now guys tell me which one of you played in the gigs with the Big Boppa, Richie Valenz and Buddy.
-------------------- Drane Signs Sunshine Coast Nambour, Qld. dranesigns@bigpond.com Downunder "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer" Posts: 965 | From: Nambour, Qld. Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Dave, the best I can do on that note is claim that Rick Flores played with Dick Dale & The Delltones. That's his story and I'm stickin' to it.
Now . . . I wonder who it was that painted "Miss American Pie" on the Buddy Holly Airlines crash plane?
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hi gang, your right this is a good strand, this is how history is preserved (within stories).To answer the question who was the striper in the Disney Short animation/live action feature, it was Larry Glogie. who at the time had his shop 2 miles from mine in Van Nuys, CA.I believe he now lives in Acton, CA and is retired (last I heard) Do you remember the sound effects which went with the 2 stripes going bonkers all over the car (Ford Fairlane) I think. haven't seen it in years-Hint- DRAG STRIP. If you ever get a chance to see it, it's killer
-------------------- Bob Bond's Artistry AutoArt Magazine Lee's Summit, MO BobBondArtist@hotmail.com http://www.bobbondart.com Posts: 101 | From: Lee's Summit, MO USA | Registered: Jan 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hey Bob!.... you are my idol of the day.... I'm calling my folks and bitch to them for raising us in Maine, then again it was the craving for that west coast style the drove me to learn this stuff myself.... always trying to out do my cuzzin in San Diego. I'm seeking a copy of that movie short "Dad can I borrow the car?".... even if I have to pay bootleg prices! Your info Bob is generous and greatly appreciated!
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
There are 3 of them on EBAY right now for very cheap (under $10).
Here's the link. [url= http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&ht=1&from=R4&ebaytag1=ebayreg&query=%22Dad+Can+I+bor row+the+car%22&CATEGORY0=11232]ebay[/url]
Okay, Can't figure out why the link isn't working but you can go to EBAY, then Movies and then type in "Dad Can I Borrow the Car" (don't forget the quotation marks) and you will get the same results I did.
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6803 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
Just an insight on that Barris interview. I wrote that article the way I did for this exact reason. As cool as it is to read through these posts and hear all of the stories, it was equally cool to hear Mr. Barris relay his stories. And just as some of you guys question and correct each other, I knew this article would receive the same critisism that some of these posts did. Even as I listened to Mr. Barris speak, I had similar questions from stories that I heard in the past. That was the reason I relayed it word for word vs. creating a story from those words. I wanted to avoid saying this is the way it was, and let the Mr. Barris tell his version of the way it was.
I walked away from that conversation with this - There are only a handful of you guys around that were there, and there are a ton of us babies within the industry that relish the stories and history of this artform. Whether all of that went down exactly like it was told, only you guys know. It's not something you haven't heard told that way in the past. And considering how old some of you guys and gals are getting (I say that with love!), and how many paint fumes you all have sniffed, I don't know if there could ever be an exact history book written on the subject. It sure is fun to listen to the debate though.
I do know this, like him or not, George Barris is a big part of the history of customizing. Exactly what part is left to be told by him and those that knew him and all the others, and that's what you guys are doing right now. I think it's a healthy thing, and makes for great reading for sure. There are plans to follow that up with others that will tell their own versions of the way things went in the olden days, so this is to be continued for sure. And this isn't meant to be as contraversial as it is thought provoking and a catalyst for conversation. All input is welcome, and there are a few of you that have posted to this thread that are already in my sights. Hope to talk to you soon, and thanks for the stories!!
-------------------- Dr. U. R. Thane If your a customizer, and your head aint right - email me.
customquack@hotmail.com Posts: 2 | From: LA California | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Owwwweeee, The Dr. is in town. You'll need a shingle, Doc, if you want to do business here. And there is plenty of a market for your kind of medicine. Let's see who can sell you one.
posted
As a "carrier" of that awesome 'disease"(Von Dutch Stories)......I'm as aware as anybody can be of all the distortions that can arise over years of outrageous accounts of "this one" and "that one". But, remember, there is some truth in EVERY story! Some of our favorite "characters" can easily take on a God-like quality with all the embellishments of the dude telling the story! In the case of Von Dutch, as outrageous and non-conformist as he was, I found MOST of the fables out there are TRUE....at least from my own experience. So, remember....DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER......!All these "accounts" have been around and around many times, and they keep getting better!
I'd love to sit and chat with you at some point - As much to hear some of the stories that could never make it to print as those that have. Something I'd love to hear you comment on, because you were in the midst of it all, is the popularity of Von Dutch back in the day. He is legend today, but I'd be really interested in how it was as his popularity was coming on. How did he handle it, and how did it happen really.
I don't know how good of a comparison this is, but The Dicovery Channel shows have boosted the popularity of Jesse James, not to take away from his ability or hard work, but for millions to see it on TV didn't hurt - but was that same atmosphere apparent at the time, or has the popularity grown with time to what it is today? They say Jesse's shop has become somewhat of a tourist attraction and his arrival in the mornings is kind of a spectacle. Was there any of that back then?
Same with you too Bob, I don't mean to overlook your accomplishments by asking about your friend, it's just on topic right now.
Thanks, and also thanks for that website your involved with posting those pictures and cool old letters from Von Dutch - I know I appreciate that.
-------------------- Dr. U. R. Thane If your a customizer, and your head aint right - email me.
customquack@hotmail.com Posts: 2 | From: LA California | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
DR. U.: To partially answer your posting: Von Dutch's pinstriping started out by fixing a bad primer jobon the "nosed" hood of a (I think) '41 Ford, and went on to history from there. Dutch never liked the attention he personally received, and did all he could to turn people off. It was always "the work" he was into, NOT the "celebrity". His true love was FABRICATION and NOT the painting and pinstriping that made him famous, so he eventually "turned off" and went into hiding. He surfaced on occassion to remind us all that VON DUTCH IS STILL ALIVE!.......which only showed that he DID like a bit of notariety......but only to a point. He had very few real friends, because he felt that most people "wanted something from him". He was a true genius that lived only for "the work". His "character" was initially a "put on" thing to outrage the public keeping them at arm's length, BUT it backfired! The public ate it up! Finally Dutch "became" this character and, in time, turned people off! So, I guess you can say, "IT WORKED"! There are tons of Von Dutch stories that can't be put into print, but there are lots that can. Many of them have been embellished to the point of being "legend". I think Dutch would have enjoyed being a LEGEND, because LEGENDS are part TRUTH and part FANTASY, a world that he zealously lived in.
posted
Bob, One of my favorite movies is "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence" It deals with the Legend becoming bigger than the truth. They end with the quote from the newspaper reporter "When the Legend becomes bigger than the Truth, Print the Legend."
posted
I just read every post on this topic (except for when I went into the paint room to touch up some spots on a paintjob) and it leaves me grinning from ear to ear to read all these tales of truth and nonsense. Everyone talks of how George Barris was the salesman, and Sam did the work. Has anyone thought about how, in the 21st century, the same thing is going on today???
For example, Jesse James has become a modern-day lunchbox hero. Everywhere you go where there is a mass gathering of gearheads, adrenaline junkies, or just plain transportation fanatics, someone will inevitably be wearing a Jesse James/WCC t-shirt. I bet the maltese cross has been tattooed on more bare skin in the past two years than it ever had in the past 20. And it's all because of his promotional and media-attracting abilities. I've seen his work, in the magazines and up close, and although it is good, it is not phenomenal. His mass-produced fenders are CRAP... ask any body man in your area that has mudded one up before priming...
Contrary to popular belief, you BUY your way into magazines. I'm sure there are some cases where you win a show and they run a feature for free, but after talking with some of the builders in this area, you "gotta PAY to PLAY". There is a builder in my area who is following the same guidelines as Jesse and is actually becoming quite famous. He's built and is building bikes for the largest bike tour going. And once again, his work is not amazing or astounding. By comparison, his work is almost embarassing compared to some of the more skilled, but slower, backyard builders around him. His most enduring skill is his ability to IMPRESS.
We talked once after I did a bike for one of his good customers (I used to do work for this builder, but stopped, due to time and money issues). We discussed how you get your NAME going: you get to know the right people (the people from the magazines, the other people in your industry who already advertise or buy TV time) you give away this or you trade that...basically, you network. You have to let those who will talk crap about you, talk the crap. Good or bad, if people are talking about you, your name is out there. And if your name is out there, you are becoming famous. Dealing with the fame is another issue. Some are cut out for it, some aren't. Von Dutch wasn't. Sam Barris might not have been. Jesse James is working it as hard as he can. So did George Barris...still is...
posted
A side note on Ed Roth. In his later years, after moving north, he joined the "Mormon Church". As I understand it, he held a high position. Maybe that is what made him "Grumpy"?
As a older kid in Merced, in the valley, I was deep into hot rods and anything related to it. I remember some of the pinstripers coming up from So Cal to stripe our cars. There were always stories of the "Cool Dudes" going around the body shops. If you were lucky you could sit around drinking beer and smoking weed with these guys. Ahhhh...what fun days.
One of the guys that hung around the So Cal Kustomisers was Joe Ortiz. I have seen pictures of his work...damn good! He was a customizer. Years later, after I became a fireman in Merced, he became our fire chief. I have sat in the fire house listening to some pretty funny stories of those days.
Thanks for the memories.....
-------------------- Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun" Posts: 1001 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
ED'S GRUMPINESS WAS DUE TO 2 MAJOR PROBLEMS.....ONE WAS HIS HEALTH.....THE OTHER WAS A DIVORCE. HE JOINED THE MORMON CHURCH AND LIVED IN MANTI, UTAH, WHERE HIS CHURCH TOOK CARE OF HIM, AS THE MORMONS WILL DO. HE POPPED AROUND HERE AND THERE, GIVING LECTURES AND SUCH, ABOUT MORMONISM. IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, ED'S HEALTH WAS PRETTY BAD, BUT HE HUNG IN THERE DOIN HIS THING AS MUCH AS HE COULD. SO.....GRUMPY?.......YEAH!
posted
Nice work Mr Hunter. How far are you from Charlotte NC.
Bob Im glad to see there will be some Von Dutch in auto art. Who is Docter UR Thane is it Craig Fraser? I dont even care but becouse I dont know it irritates me. Some freinds and I started a club of sorts one time. We all streetraced and grudge raced together and just thought we should call our selves something. We thougt the name we came up with was kind of stupid so we came up with C.S.C.B. We made some decals for the corner of our windows and every one in town went crazy tring to figure out what it stood for. Some even got ****ed off. We all had cars of some value if they were restored and found pride in cutting them up to the point that they could not be restored. They were all tubed out or had front clips with full roll cages and stuff. The name of our group was the Confederate Street Car Butchers. After one of the members slipped it out we had guys mad becouse we made such a big deal out of it but we didnt they did. Once the mystery was gone no one cared. But that is not the case here I must Know who he is!!!!!!!
-------------------- Ryan Young Indocil Art & Design indocil@comporium.net 803-980-6765
I highjacked Letterville!! Winter Muster 2004 Posts: 904 | From: Rock Hill, SC | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Jesse James is a Cult hero of sorts. I for one question his claims to being a descendant of the famous Jesse James. Im not doubting him, but I am sure he is using those claims to rise to fame and fortune. I would love to own one of his bikes "just because." I also dont think he is a bad person, the guy possibly could be using it all as a publicity thing, or maybe he is related to the REAL Jesse James, who really cares?
It seems to be helping him gain fame, so be it! (that just proves he is more creative than the rest of us)
Just think about Ron Popeil, the godfather of infomercials.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have never met any of the "Greats" disscused in this thread, and was not a fan of "hot-rods" or custom-culture, I started in this Pinstriping business 23 years ago pulling straight lines---self taught. My first exposure to any of the "ledgends and stories" was eleven years ago at a pinhead meet in Ohio.
I would never put myself in the same league as any of the great Stripers talked about here or the great Craftsmen who have posted here, however even I, the lowly pinstriper of straight lines have had stories told about me and what I do, to me by a few of my new customers who didn't know that I was the "other Striper" they were telling the story about. And yes indeed the stories get better with the telling, and no I never tell the customer that I am that "GUY", I just nod and say "yeah he was great but I think he moved out west" or "Didn't he die a couple of years ago"
I love to hear the stories, the grander the better no matter who they are about, I just try not to repeat anything I wasn't personaly involved in.
Would have been nice to meet Ed, or Dutch, but then I'd like to meet all of you, and swap lies in person at some LETTERHEAD-PINHEAD meet in the future, So till then,
Educate us poor farmers--turned Pinstripers about the past we didn't know existed!
DeWayne Connot D.O.A. Flatliners Pinstriping to Die For!
posted
I'm not sure being a GEEZER is a good thing. On one hand, I was priveleged to have seen these God-like personalities when they were at their peak.......on the other hand.......same thing! I'm happy to have experienced it, but getting old aint fer sissies!
posted
Mr. Young, I am located right here in King, about 10 minutes north of Winston-Salem, and 2 hours from Charlotte (not counting the jams of 85 and 77). Where are you located?
It's not that I dislike Jesse James or his work, some of it is awesome. I'm just not fond of the way the 'greats' become 'greats'. Back in the 50's and 60's, it seems that it wasn't how you did the work, it was how you marketed the work. In the 21st century, it's not much different. Undoubtedly, it was harder work than it is today, with all the car show appearances, flyers, magazine ads, etc. It's much easier now with the internet, and the speed in which you can get way more 'out there'.
posted
Not sure how this got from George Barris to Jesse James..........
Pretty sure that neither one of them really care about what anyone around here thinks anyway......
Also, pretty sure that only a couple here even know either one personally........
But all in all ....... it's been a pretty good thread...Thanks Rick...
Oh yeah.......Dwayne Hunter.... Sure is a bummer that the guys in your area have to "Buy" their way into mags and such....... I've got quite a bit of ink over the last 40+ years, and never paid a dime...... In fact, they've always sought me out and I've been paid for being in their rags....... What a drag to have to pay for something like that......
.......cj
PS........Whoever made this thread have to scroll sideways....needs to go back and edit their post.........this is a pain in the *ss.... Thanks....
[ February 09, 2003, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: CJ Allan ]
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic