Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6811 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Take anything George Barris says with a big grain of salt. He's the master of assuming the identity of others, and self-promotion. I'm not saying George didnt do something 'back in the day' but I know for a fact that he takes a lot of credit for things he had nothing to do with, or very little at best.
A prime example would be the Monkeemobile - Dean Jeffries built it for the studio and George bought it years (read - decades) later.. and hung his moniker on it and tells the world he built it. Same with a lot of other famous creations.
Ask anyone that was actually in the Valley back in the day and they'll tell you a completely different story of George Barris than the one we've come to learn from George.
There were a number of great craftsmen in that area back then, who are all but forgotten. It's a shame that someday when the history books are read, everyone will look to guys like George Barris and think he single handedly invented the wheel and later, the chopped top.
Then again, people still believe Edison invented electricity and Marconi invented radio...
posted
Good call, Rob. I understand it was actually George's brother who did all the hands-on and directed the body & paint shops whilst George stood around all dressed to the nines. It wasn't as though it was outright theft, though - that's the way it worked best for them.
By the same token it was Jim Jacobs (of Pete & Jake) who did the bulk of the design and workmanship on Ed Roth's vehicular creations, but how important are those facts? They both made money and fame.
A few years ago I was dating a gal who as it turned out had lived right next door to Barris Kustoms. Wow! Was I impressed . . . I wanted to know all about it - what a chunk of nostalgia for a car buff like myself. . . but she only thought all those car nuts were just that = nuts. She couldn't have cared less. _______________________________________________________
So how did ol' George do it, Rick? Did he dive after the oysters himself and pry them of the rocks with his chrome plated tire iron and smash up the pearls in his paint shaker? And did he rest on the 7th day after all that?
[ January 30, 2003, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Mike Languein ]
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm finally glad to hear from someone other then me who speaks the truth, rather then follow the trend which often accompanies the posts here. It was Georges brother, Sam who was the main force in Barris Bros. and George was just a great promoter as with others who thought they were there. Duting the 60's in SFV, there were a number of vehicle customizers so to speak, Bill Cushenberry in Burbank, Dean Jefferies in Studio City and Barris in North Hollywood and well as pinstriper Walt Prey. Motorcycles had great customizers too, Dean Lanza and Gary LittleJohn and myself, although at that time I was also a full-time shirt designer in Hollywood.
Candy paint as well as Pearl paints had been done by Joe Bailon, Dean "Kid" Jeffries and Larry Watson way back when 2 and 3 stage paints were first used, but in lacquer. The reason Murano pearls are no longer available are because of the enviromentalists complaining due to the fact that Murano was made from fish scales. Not everyone from California is as well know as Barris but yet those in the know, know the facts and don't really gives a rat sass. Check this out for more of who did what. http://www.roadsters.com/custom/ back when custom was king!
posted
Joey, thanks for posting that website address for customs, put it in favourites, and will enjoy for a long time!!
John Lennig
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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Great site Joey. If any one is into new trends with bikes check out the salinas boys site and look at there bober bike! Its in the projects section.
-------------------- Ryan Young Indocil Art & Design indocil@comporium.net 803-980-6765
I highjacked Letterville!! Winter Muster 2004 Posts: 904 | From: Rock Hill, SC | Registered: Sep 2001
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I'll leave the history and drama to the in the know guys. I thought that interview was hilarious (?sp)... such pointed and daring questions ... hahaha
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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What few people are aware of is that Von Dutch created most of the trick paint stuff before Barris, Jeffries and the rest. Like pearls....metalflake.....etc. Dutch was back in the paint room DOING this stuff while the boys out front took the credit, because it was THEIR shop. Dutch did his first metalflake job (by accident), when someone opened the paint room door allowing a strong breeze to blow metal shavings off the floor into the fresh paint. So Dutch just cleared and cleared over it till it got smooth. Most of Dutch'e "tricks" were done to fix screw-ups.
[ January 31, 2003, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
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How about those wizzards that built the so called "Von Dutch" motorcycle featured in Easyrider a few months back...... I can't help but think it's not a tribute to my biggest hero.... but more of a money grab off the back of a true Icon of Auto/Cycle Americana (even worse a guy who thought little of money and bragging rites) unfortunatly to many buy into it and the real cool stuff is lost to fiction. As a kid in the late 60's early 70's and on the east cost... we were fed a steady dose of the "real thing" from my cuzzin in San Diego.... a small time back yard guy that sent photos and clippings of the goings on for the Kustom Kulture starved in the nor'east. My brothers and I still believe in build and ride your own and built our careers around it. I gotta say even the phonies did help the movement.... same as old P.T Barnum. Hey who was the pinstriper in the Disney Show abot CARS???... I recall a white care maybe a Dodge Coronet.... and a guy striping strieght lines... goes to answer the phone and the stripes take on a life of thier own!.... that show was a major inspiration to me.
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
posted
Guess there's nuthing i can say here....... Hell I just hitch-hiked down Atlantic from my house in Long Beach, 2 or three time a week to hang out at the old Barris shop..........
But .....I only did that for a couple years.....so what the hell would i know........
I still have pics of the "FIRST" Merc chopped by Sam.........
.............cj
PS......My opinion of George.....not much !!
PsS......Stephen........YUP.......there's a whole herd of people out there now cashing in on just about everything imaginable.....as long as they can somehow manage to connect Dutch's name to it.......
[ January 31, 2003, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: CJ Allan ]
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
quote:Most of Dutch'e "tricks" were done to fix screw-ups.
Just ask any chef - that's how your greatest creations come about. The problem then lies in the fact that you'll never be able to recreate the mistake again!
Where do you think this Warm Chocolate Cake with the Molten Center came about? It's been "the " trend for a while now. I'll bet you $1000 that some yahoo pulled something out of the oven before it was done, served it anyway and everyone raved about it.
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3723 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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Those are called Happy Accidents in my shop, and I live by them. I got onto antiquing signs by trying to show Lenny what was wrong with his paint.
I have a vague memory of the Disney pinstripe event - I remember it as a white car but in my minds eye it looks more like a '64 Ford sedan, except I'm pretty sure it was filmed before that. I only saw the show one time - long before I got involved in any art.
I don't know how to do the "Quote" thing - but for Joey's comment on honesty I'd like to add a tag line; "Ah, at long last an honest man..." _____________W. C. Fields for Diogenes
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Joey....... That's a really great link, I never knew it was there....... Thanks.....
and it was a hell of a privledge to not only have been around Sam and several of those others at that time........but having a small hand in doing some things on the "Rose" is really special to me.....
...........cj
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
posted
Since this thread turned out to be a good one and not a 'how dare you besmirch the good name of our lord and saviour George Barris", I'll continue on evangelizin' the truth
Sam was the man behind the torch. George was the salesman, frontman, and money handler. Sam liked it that way and so did George. Can't say as too many guys in the business ever liked George, but they did Sam evidently. I think a lot of the George thing was probably over his getting ink and the big bucks all the time... like any industry it isnt whos best - it's whos the best salesman.
Dean Jefferies was around at the exact same time as The Crazy Painters (Roth, Crozier & Kelly). Depending on which old fart you talk to in the Valley, some say Jeff was the first on the 'weirdo' scene, but like most eras, things happen at the same time at different places. I would say Jeff was a little more talented in the beginning. His all-metal creation "Manta Ray" is an interesting contrast to Roth's piece of the same period, the fiberglass "Beatnik Bandit".
If anyone would care to know just how bad Jefferies hates Barris, find someone who helped hold him back at the Motorama in LA a few years ago when he was trying to whip GB's buttocks for putting the signs out and telling the TV cameras all about how HE designed and built the Monkeemobile.
As a final note on the man and the myth of Dean Jefferies... for years in the dark corner of his shop, sat one of the supposed three built(and the only one I know of being tangible) Ford GT40 CONVERTIBLE's! I had heard he turned down over 3 million bucks for it... Last I heard, he was restoring it, but his health is getting bad (he's approaching 70+). I hope he gets it done, if he hasnt already.
Another BIG TIME custom paint hero is Gene Winfield. Gene was one of if not the first to really perfect the blended paint scheme. As a special sidenote to anyone into airplanes, Gene married Lockheed "Skunk Works" legend Kelly Johnson's daughter. Man, that had to be SOME after thanksgiving conversation eh?
"What did you do Gene?" "Oh I did the Jade Idol, figured out how to blend candy paintjobs smoothly and some other stuff. What did you do Kelly?" "Oh I did the P-38, F-104, and SR-71, plus a few others.."
I loved Dutch as much as anybody, what a character! But I've never thought of him as a great practioner of the art he created. His flames were pretty bad, and some of his other stuff wouldnt have won any high school art contests.... Most people dont know there was a darker side of Dutch - a hard-drinker who left California over a drunk driving incident (as I was told). Kenny Howard was a talented human being, who in history will go down as a postmodern legend on the same level of Paul Bunyan, John Henry or Babe Ruth. He is most certainly the Elvis of Kustom Kulture.. best or not, he's the king, baby.
As for Jacobs being responsible for Roth's cars - Only the last couple from his 60's era did those kids work on. Most notably the "Druid Princess" which was going to be the family car for the Addams Family, but it was canceled (the show, not the car) before it made it on screen. "Capt Pepi's Zeppelin Repair Service" maybe had some of Jacob's handywork as well. The more famous Roth cars, "Mysterion", "Beatnik Bandit", "Orbitron", "Road Agent, "Outlaw" and lesser knowns like "Tweedy Pie" and "Wishbone" were built mostly by Ed and his righthand man/all around grunt - Dirty Doug. Ed would come in and throw some plaster around and Doug would shape on it and try to make Ed's imagination come to life. You have to remember, in that era, Roth was humpin' it with extensive carshow travels and T-shirt sales (he was not only selling a lot of mail order 'weirdo' shirts, but doing shirts for all the local hi-po parts companies). Around the time Jacobs and the other young cats showed up, Roth was getting into motorcycles and out of the car thing. As by some mystical devine destiny, Ed had Newton and Robert Williams in the art department, two of the baddest cats to ever pick up a pencil. LOTS of talent came through that complex in Maywood, CA. If only Ed hadnt got religion... the tales that man would've told would keep us entertained for the next millenium!
The 'Salinas Boys' will be the next big thing, and rightfully so. Cole Foster is the son of Pat Foster, legendary drag racer, fabricator and american motorsports icon. I'll give you a secret to watch out for - Cole's working on a 36 Ford right now for Kirk Hammett (guitarist for Metallica) that will knock your socks off. This follows his already amazing work on the Custom Chrome cycle Ryan mentioned, Billy Gibbons (ZZ Top) 50 Ford, Jimmie Vaughan's (Fabulous Thunderbird's leader and SRV's brother) 60 Chevy and a Kirk's wife's Chevelle. Pat is still doing the same level of work that made him the 'go-to' guy for Mickey Thompson and Nissan Indycar (among others) in Wichita, Kansas. He set the world on it's ear recently with beyond-perfect front engined dragster restorations and recreations. He's currently a resident of Wichita, Kansas, but makes the trek out to NorCal when Cole needs his metal skills.
Another guy we've not talked about that is hugely talented and all around SoCal legend - Kenny Youngblood. 'Blood is probably the most talented artist on the planet... being masterfully skilled from pinstriping to fine art. A lot of the 'Jersey' guys get talked about as doing funnycars in the 70's, but I'd bet Kenny did twenty for every one they did. Not only that, but he drove fuelers in the 60's. He's still at it too, although most of his time now is spent doing limited edition motorsport art. He's still swinging a brush and a can of One-Shot though.
I've been blessed to know some of these guys, and guys that have never been heard of (yet) like Robin Caldwell for example. These are the folks that break the ground for folks like us to keep the ball rolling. There were sooooo many small town Roth's and Dutch's that were just as if not more talented, they just didnt live where magazines were printed so they didnt get the recognition. I only hope today's 'rice burner' crowd will get into murals and pinstripes and stuff like it was 'back in the day'.
But then again, Roth always said the smaller he could get a car, the better - so maybe Rat Fink will have the last laugh....yet. Let's hope so.
posted
Kinda interesting........ sein as to how half those guys weren't in the "Valley"....cause the "Valley was a good hour, or more, drive away............
.........cj
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
posted
Since when is having the talent to turn great workmanship into a viable business venture a bad thing? I have spent a little time with both George and Sam and having a front man who dealt in mostly BS made them a lot of cash. And if George took all the credit, who cares as long as you can afford to be creative, afterall the credits say Barris Brothers. Same is true of Ed Roth. I spent a lot of time with him at Emmetts in the late 80's and he said basically that he was just an idea man not a craftsman. Emmett and I countered with, you have to have both to be successful. When you have a pair, then you have the best of both worlds. He made a lot of contacts and certainly parlayed the Rat Fink concept well.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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Stephen, Somewhere I have a copy of that movie. I think it is titled "Dad, Can I Borrow the Car." It is a great movie about someone getting a drivers license and the stuff tat accompanies it.
I was not suggesting that everything George Barris says is gospel, only that I found the interview interesting.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6811 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Partners are good so I had to confer with CJ Allan just to make sure that I was correct in my memories, You see its been one hellava long time!!
Well Kent, its time to be truthful and as you stated you spent time with both George and Sam and I find that very hard to swallow. You see Sam died in the mid 60's and was living in northern California and hadn't worked with his brother since the early to mid 50's when the Barris Brothers shop was in Lynwood. Whatever happened between the brothers I haven't a clue, but to my knowledge George opened in North Hollywood and Sam moved up north and became a fireman.
On another note, don't tell me you don't remember that black,lowered 64 Valiant-Cuda painted with real Murano pearl the I drove to Chromatic on a weekly basis to get my paints from the Bermans when I lived in Haverstraw !
posted
Hey Rick.... thanks for the clarification!!!!..... god I loved that show..... just stumbled on it one night.... Sunday night Disney I recall..... I'm searching info tonight to see if the "striper" gets credit.... duelling pinstripes drag racing in loops and curls still play out in my head when I am working some dusty hot event with the usual old questions from on lookers. The saddest thing to me about being in the craft any length of time, is seeing some of the old mentors pass away.... my first lettering kit was a Roth mail order .... who can forget those ads in Car Craft or Hot Rod for shirts and so on. In school (70's) we made flying eyeball shirts and drew our own Monster art, Dutch and Roth were the first names I heard of, over the years learning more of the history and of the lesser known guys has inspired me to keep to the art and leave the Barking to the wannabees....
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
posted
In '59 I worked for Roth, airbrushin sweatshirts over on Slausn.....that's before any silkscreenin came along around there. That was while he was puttin together the "Outlaw".
Sat next to Kelly and learned some really kool stuff...(wish to hell I could remember some of it) Do remember we was usin primer for all the paint in the airbrushes...
Geezzz Rob........ You must really have a great mind to just sit down and write all that history...You could probably write the history of the whole 50s and 60 hot rod/custom car culture/industry in less than a hour........Amazing..!!
Kinda sounds like ya almost copied all that out of some book or somethin.........
I grew up in the middle of all that, and was around the guys you talk about, and I can't remember hardly any of that stuff.......But I do remember a lot of partying and building some Kool stuff..!!
Oh yeah......did I mention that i didn't work for Ed very long............I just wasn't all that good, and besides.....I had discovered sex, drugs, and Rock & Roll........(but so did ED)
I was also around there quite a bit when Buzzard was there turning out slugs for front ends, and makin bike parts.....
........cj
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
My uncle George was a retired machinist in Ventura who did job work for Sam and we visited often when I was a kid, early 50's. He was a frequent visitor at their house too, even after he moved north. George came around once in a while too, aunt Mable always had a roast in the oven. My memories are more of a personal nature but were insightful to their operation. Some of what I remember of course was repeated over the years enough to reinforce what I heard.
Yes I remember the car, do you remember discussing painting the MG to match? I just thought of that. Never did get to that.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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You guys are awsome. Post like these get me going. One of the best things about going to a pinhead event is to hear the old stories by all you oldtimers. I sat and listened to Ray "El Vago" and Loose Bruce Cambrielo. SP? talk about going to a car show and not getting home becouse they would start stiping cars in the hotel parking lot. I was born in the wrong era. I would love to be in a parking lot with a great freind at four in the morning striping every street racer or Hot Rod in the area that heard ther were to guys striping in town.
-------------------- Ryan Young Indocil Art & Design indocil@comporium.net 803-980-6765
I highjacked Letterville!! Winter Muster 2004 Posts: 904 | From: Rock Hill, SC | Registered: Sep 2001
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I was a witness to this VonDutch story: A young kid brought his Triumph motorcycle to Dutch for a pinstripe job. He asked when it would be done. Dutch, hating clocks, answered "At sunset"! The kid looked at his watch, and asked "when's sunset?". Dutch got up in the kids face and angrily exclaimed " YOU WANT ME TO STRIPE YOUR BIKE, AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHEN THE SUN GOES DOWN!?"
TRUE STORY
[ February 01, 2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
I tried to 'readers digest' that stuff as best I could in one sitting. It's hard to cram 10-15 years of history in 1000 words or less
As for my knowledge of that era, the people and events, I have been VERY fortunate that A: I had an interest in that stuff when it was 'uncool' B: the brass to call the guys that lived it and pick their brain. C: right place, right time, I had knowledge that impressed them, and they shared theirs with me.
I have been a diehard kustom kulture, street and drag racing fanatic since birth. As a kid who knew nothing of mechanics, aerodynamics or chemistry, the visual side of it was my first love. I wore the covers off of most all the books, magazines and other propaganda I could get my short fat fingers on.
A funny story before I get into the meat of this post - When I started 12th grade "art 2" classes, the teacher went around the room asking each student who their favorite artist was and what style did they wish to study. Most kids rattled off Monet, Picasso, Da Vinci, Dadaism, pointilism etc.... when she got to me (who she already had a disdain for due to a bird incident the year before..) I stuck out my chest and said "Big Daddy Roth, and pinstriping!"
She made me go sit in the hall.
So, years later (circa mid 80's) after having a car accident, I had a little spending cash to live out a dream... I wanted to buy one of Roth's old cars. I found the dragster he had built called "The Yellow Fang". That story is a very long and winding one and it's chronicled elsewhere on the web, but that was my opening introduction to Ed Roth, the real man. Through a guy in Pennsylvania, I got Ed's home number (remember, in that era, he wasnt exactly "Big Daddy" to the general public anymore). I called Ed, and he proceded to chew my butt up one side and down the other! I was a kid! My IDOL told me I was an idiot!
I was heartbroken.
See, Ed was a different kinda guy. He didnt have a reverse - he always saw in the future and never the past. Well, years later he did when it was profitable.. but as a designer or hot rodder, he only saw the future.
There was no way in hell he was going to give his stamp of approval to restoring and running his old digger. (He had very little to do with the car, but I didnt find that out till years later)
I was crushed. After a while I thought about it, and could see his points. But little did I know at the time, what an impact he and the other people associated with that car and the general population of the California Car Culture would have on my life.
Ed kinda warmed up to me little by little... I'd call and just bend his ear. The trick to getting to know any of the 'hero' type is dont treat them as a hero - treat them as just another guy. If they demand you treat them like a hero, then they are prima donnas and arent who you think they are anyway. (for examples, see Don Garlits, Darrell Waltrip, etc.)
Ed turned me onto a few other guys, and again you have to remember a few things. For one, in that era, these once 'kings of kings' were now joe blows. Guys like Boyd Coddington and Rick Dobbertin had superceded them by and large, and they were all but forgotten. Except to guys like you and me....
Long story short - several years of $300mo. phone bills gave way to this new fangled thing called the internet..
I use to post a lot on drag racing BBS' and that led to a couple of guys emailing me. These 'guys' turned out to be legends on the scale of Roth, just in different arenas. Guys like TV Tommy Ivo, Tom Hanna, Pat Foster, Kenny Youngblood, Bruce Wheeler, Bobbi Liberman (Jungle Jim's ex-wife, and mother of his son), and others. That turned into an email circle that turned into the Standard1320, which evolved into a 'who's who' of Car Culture in general. You can read a members directory here, although it changes with the wind (www.standard1320.com/1320eMembers.html).
These guys lived it, and were more than happy to tell the stories as they were, not the way someone wrote it down.. like say Tom Wolfe, or Hunter S. Thompson. History books are at best, 50% right, on any given subject. To hear the story told from a, "Heard about it? Hell, I was there!" point of view is always the best source. Especially when you can get it from several, and verify it.
I've built computer systems for Foster, Ivo and Wheeler. I've done software for Hanna, and web work for a lot of others. It was knowledge they needed or wanted and we could talk on the same level, and be seen as a peer and not just a 'fan' or historian. They told me what I wanted to learn, and I did the same for them.
I hope this didnt sound like a bragging thing, it wasnt meant to - I just want to give some crediblity to what I had already written.
And for the record... Roth kinda hoodoo'd me on the Yellow Fang. As a gesture of good faith I told him where the car was (it was in Nags Head, NC at a museum) as he had lost track of it years earlier. He in turn told Don Garlits where it was, and Garlits outbid me by $2000 to buy the car, and take it to Ocala, Fla, where it sits today in his museum. The car wears it's George Cerny paintjob well after 36 years, showing only a few crumped body panels and slight fading. I still wish I had gotten to be the one to bring it back to life, but the doors it opened for me have been some of the best doors I've ever walked through and I'm thankful for all of it.
posted
I read every word of this thread thinking to myself how making signs had put this fascinating topic before my eyes even though my own preoccupation with digital & vinyl graphics would have never caused me to seek out this info, let alone realize how fascinating it would be.
I didn't figure I would have anything to add & I don't really, but I happen to have opened my sign shop 2 doors down from Bruce Wheeler (Wheeler Dealer) who Rob has referenced & so others here may also know. (Bruce was a guest, a witness & volunteer photographer at my wedding last fall) Anyway, I'll let him know he is remembered here.
[ February 01, 2003, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
posted
Doug - ask Bruce about his "BFC". And since you're a drummer, ask about his Rock N' Roll days, from NHRA to Woodstock to A&R guy.. what a life.
Since you're into digital printing, if you ever need a comparison between your EDGE and a first generation ColorCAMM, that's what I made that one on, for his PC.
Future reference to anyone shipping anything to Maui - pack it in 50 layers of foam and mark it 'deadly if dropped'. When Bruce got the PC I sent him, the wires going to the motherboard were completely knocked off in transit. Thank god the rest of the machine lived. And that was FedEx!
posted
Hey Robb great info but I must say you missed the mark with Big Daddy. I have always found big to be down to earth. He has alot of his automotive facts screwed up but I have found him to be a great guy. The guy that does some of my engine work had the old christmas tree from Chester Dragway. The track was about 20 min from my shop. Chester SC was where big had the real bad fire that almost killed him and Ray gave him the tree for the museum.But thats my two cents and I enjoyed your 5 bucks worth. Dont take that wrong I realy enjoyed your story.
-------------------- Ryan Young Indocil Art & Design indocil@comporium.net 803-980-6765
I highjacked Letterville!! Winter Muster 2004 Posts: 904 | From: Rock Hill, SC | Registered: Sep 2001
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Ryan is correct in that Ed Roth was a super guy in person!! I an fortunate to have met and associate with him 24 years ago! Ed was the kind of guy who either liked you or not! If you were a friend, he was always willing to help you out.
I miss his friendship!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Sorry Si I was talking about Big Daddy Don Garlits. Rob said he wasnt cool if you didnt treat him as a hero. Im sorry to say that I wasnt a real big fan of Roths untill he died. After reading about the man behind the cars and rat fink I have grown to think he was one of the best guys in the custom car culture. He is now one of my all time heros. I just wish I and outhers like me would have known this before we lost a great guy like Roth. I wish I could type well enough to retell the story of how Roth had to fight a biker gang leader becouse he was shaking Roth down for protection money. Long story short Roth said it was between them and the could settle it by an old sckool fight. Roth kicked his asss and instead of degrading the guy and shoving him out the door in front of his crew he helped him up and told him that he was his strongest opponent he had fought and if he or any of his crew needed any thing that they were welcome back but he wasnt going to pay protection money. That was such a smart cool move. That story was told by famed Robert Williams.
-------------------- Ryan Young Indocil Art & Design indocil@comporium.net 803-980-6765
I highjacked Letterville!! Winter Muster 2004 Posts: 904 | From: Rock Hill, SC | Registered: Sep 2001
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I lived down the street from ED Roth when I was a kid in La Mirada, and a sign painter in my church who showed me the ropes painted signs with him at Knott's Berry Farm. Even as a snot nosed kid, he was cool to me, and I used to see him work and I would show him mine (I showed anyone who would look). As a young kid I had stickers all over my wall of Ratfink and Mr Gasser, my dad would take me to Lyons Drag Strip, in my teens I would paint car club splashes in back windows or my own made up characters inpired by Ratfink, always thinkin I could be like him. I would see Ed Roth at Ratfink reunions and tell him all the time how much he inspired me, a gentleman in my heart, a true artist. Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1540 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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all i can say is......never knew how much the people i talk to here......were involved in the idols of my childhood and were the reason i choose the path of work i did.......
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Ryan............ Why don't you go ahead and type that story.........We'll put up with your typing......
I know what happened in that incedent, and wwhat you just said is pretty twisted, and Williams wasn't even there.
Just like with Dutch............tooooooo many stories all screwed up by people that weren't there.
I find it better to talk about what ya "KNOW", not all the crap ya heard !! Things have away of really getting distorted, (to make the teller seem more important,) then becoming fact, and the people involved can't even recognize the story anymore!! And Williams like others.........well, never mind..............just make it up as ya go.....hehehehe Nobody will ever know the difference.....
...........cj
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
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I really stepped over the line, I think, even answering this thread, earlier - since I wasn’t there. I only began getting interested in art in 1967 in the Navy - before that I enjoyed the urban legends surrounding Von Dutch, none of which were probably ever true. I’d had the bicycle decals on all my bikes, and a buddy of mine had an eyeball decal on his refrigerator, but I didn’t realize whose they were until years later. I have been a car fiend since I was three years old, and I met Ed Roth a couple times at custom car shows and once at his place, but I don’t remember where it was, Bellflower, maybe. I thought he was damn near God in the flesh, but I also thought he made all that crazy stuff himself. It was Jim Jacobs, himself, who told me it was he, not Roth, who did the work on the cars, though - I didn’t make it up.
One of the first posts I ever put on the BB was called “Heroes Fall Hard”, about a famous sign painter, which I’ve since deleted because it was pretty mean spirited. But it was based on personal knowledge. The first time I worked at Disneyland, back in ‘88, I worked with a few guys who had been at Knott’s Berry Farm under Ed, and of course, they had some pedestal toppling stories of their own. I want to thank all the guys posting here that WERE there, back in the day and can shed light on the real histories.
Having said all that - here I go to get flamed - I was at the drags one day, in the pits at Irwindale Raceway and Tommy Ivo was the racer of the day with a red dragster, which I believe had a Chrysler engine in it. After one race the mechanics jumped in on it, removed the nose piece and the plugs, and Tommy, realizing a crowd had begun to gather - removed the distributor and dropped it on the ground. His lead mechanic said something like “Christ! Can’t somebody put him in a box or something?” and TV Tommy then stepped in the middle of the hand formed aluminum nose piece, crushing it. I saw that! I had to leave. Watching the TV show (was it “My Little Margie”?) after that was never the same. He had the bucks to buy the machines and he drove them straight arrow, but he should have kept his numerous thumbs and his big lead feet out of the way.
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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Didnt mean to ruffle your feathers CJ. I was just tring to recall it like I heard it in Juxtapoz Magazine. Im sorry I got it wrong. I would love to hear it from you. I realy look up to you guys that were living the scene. I am only 29 years old and have no first hand knoledge of any of this but I would love to know more so I wont be part of the distortion of the history that I find so interesting. I asked Bert "the shirt" Crimm at the Rat fink party in Kentucky if it was true and he said it was. I am realy confused now and would like to hear the real story.
Your friend Ryan Young.
-------------------- Ryan Young Indocil Art & Design indocil@comporium.net 803-980-6765
I highjacked Letterville!! Winter Muster 2004 Posts: 904 | From: Rock Hill, SC | Registered: Sep 2001
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This thread has gotten really interesting, especially with some of those who were actually there straightening things out. I can't comment on any of the west coast custom guys, but Ryan, the comment on Darryl Waltrip being a "prima donna" is way off the mark. I met Darryl a number of years ago at a race at Huntsville, Alabama. I was there helping a frind of mine run an asphalt late model race with the All Pro series. Darryl was there driving a car out of Florida. The car was pained up with the Mountain Dew sponsorship that Darryl ran in Winston Cup. This car was heavily funded and supported. The cahssis builder Ray Dillon was there with the car along with the engine builder Ray Baker. Anyway they had a little problem and needed a washer which they didn't have. They were going from pit to pit til Darryl came to ours. We had the proper washer which we gave to him. Sorry, but he acted like just a regular guy. He ended up running second to Butch Lindley after a hell of a duel. When we were loading up here comes Darryl, who shook everybody's hand, thanking us for the loan of the washer and saying he couldn't have run the race without our help. A most gracious and humble man if there ever was one. Oh yea, most of the guys on our crew thought he was an a**hole before this encounter.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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Naw..... Ya don't ruffle any of my feathers......
It just really cracks me up, all the stuff that becomes fact by magazine writers/editors..... They do more to screw up any history than anything I can think of.........
I'm always hearing/reading stories of things about me, or things that I was right in the middle of.......Hell I can't even recognize the players most of the time, and the story are so pushed out of shape as to what really went on........ Well you get the picture.....But, No...I don't let it bother me any........I do try to set the record straight sometimes though......and there's a whole lot more to that biker story than needs to be said anywhere.......I know the people, the place, and what went down......and that's all I'll say about that......
One thing that's kind of amusing though..... Larry Watson used to be a pretty conceded little Pr**k, and Ed was always fun to be around......... But in the last several years..........their roles seemd to reverse........Watson turned out to be a pretty nise guy.............From what I hear.....heheheh!!The last time I was around Ed was at the "RF" Party in Burbank, and he seemed pretty grumpy all day long........coulda' been something he ate....heheh!!
Just remember this.........
A "FACT" is anything you can get someone else to believe!!"
........cj
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
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Or like they said in a movie about wartime news correspondants that I watched the other day... "there is no truth, that's why they call them stories"
The only other guy I ever met having anything to do with dragsters was a guy named Izzy (Isreal) from Arazonia who helped me rebuild the engine in my old Blazer. He had been a driver for some years. I assume he was a minor player at best, but small world that it is, maybe he's a known character. He sure is a character, I know that much.
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