posted
At Next year's "Winter Muster" we'll do away with Port-a-potties. there will be lots of YELLOW SNOW. Or bring your own port-a-pottie, we'll have a bob cat to help unload yours off your shop vehicle. How bout pinstriping port-a-potties and call it "Pinheads paint the Head?" Give a crap, paint me. Brushin' Bulletin on the Biffy. Outsourcing out at the outhouse. "Letterheads on the LOO"
Mike Languein SOUND OFF!
-------------------- Mike Meyer Sign Painter 189 1st Ave n P.O. Box 3 Mazeppa, Mn 55956
We are not selling, we are staying here in Mazeppa....we cannot re-create what we have here....not in another lifetime! SO Here we are!!!!!!!
posted
I have to jump back in here...I really don't care what someone charges for a meet ...if it is one I want to attend...I will.
That having been said ...I'm not likely to go to a meet where my day is scheduled into seminars I have trouble sitting thru. I've always been a hands on guy and enjoy "one on one" sharing.
Everyone should follow their own concience...if you have the money and the meet fits your style "go for it" if it doesn't look around .
No one will be mad!
No matter what your approach is, it's still going to be less expensive than a college degree...take less time out of your life...and in most cases be more rewarding.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
Hell is Right Mr. Meyer. Look at this 40+ replies to a valid Letterhead topic.
IF you've ever talked to the people that put on the meets, you quickly hear that they have very little advance registration. That means they are putting their money on the line, in most cases without any committment from the participants. So if you see attending a certain meet in the future make your plans and pre-register as a courtesy to your host or hostess. They are doing everything they can to assure a successful meet for the benefit of everybody.
posted
How do you say "Hell Yeah" in Spanish Santo? Hell yeah BROTHER SANTO!!! by the way, it's 14 below zero here today....Lock the door...let's head for the pond...IT'S HOCKEY WEATHER!!!!!!!
-------------------- Mike Meyer Sign Painter 189 1st Ave n P.O. Box 3 Mazeppa, Mn 55956
We are not selling, we are staying here in Mazeppa....we cannot re-create what we have here....not in another lifetime! SO Here we are!!!!!!!
posted
Señor Meyer = will you be posting pics of the Yellow Snow Graphics Competition? I expect you guys in the Frozen North are adept at 'signing' in the snow - I have to go to the local mountains to 'bone up' on my winter autograph. But this raises a somewhat sexist question -- won't this event, by it's very nature, exclude the ladies from participation?
Re: Porta Potties, I don't take no sh** I don't give a sh** ______________________ I'm not in the sh** business
posted
Randy give those hotels name, i will take a look if they are respectable. Those that we check for now are around $160 anight. I know you can have better rates but I don't want to send somebody to those dumps with vibrating beds and mirror on ceiling!!! Anyway you can only rent those place at an hourly rate! By the way XXXL t-shirt will be available.
Have fun and let me know!
-------------------- Pierre Tardif P. Tardif Inc. 1006 boul. PIE-XI sud Val-Belair QC. Canada G3K 1L2 418-847-4089 pierre@ptardif.com Posts: 800 | From: Quebec city | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I really think we are missing the real problem here. It's not the cost of meets, but the lack of income. Everything is too expensive when you are broke.
Let's be honest. Many of us in the sign business face a constant challenge just paying the bills, let alone doing anything extra. Let me be the first to confess that I am one of these people. It's time we started to ask ourselves why and start working together to change things.
We've been blessed with the opportunity to meet many Letterheads. They are talanted, hard working, dedicated people working insane hours. No matter how hard they try, there never seems to be anything extra left over at the end. What are we doing wrong? Are we finally so sick and tired of being sick and tired to to admit that our way of thinging and doing things may be flawed?
I know some reading this will shake their heads with disbelief. They'll talk about lowering overhead, charging more, living within your means and so on. My goal is not to fix the blame, but begin to fix the problem. We have a community of compassionate people here, united by our love of creating. Learning to render that perfect convex letter is wonderful, but I want to see Letterville used more to address the business end of signs.
Being broke all the time is no fun. For some, the hardest part might be starting to believe it is ok to want more. There are self esteem issues at work here along with some stinking thinking. It all begins with admitting we have a problem and having the will to change.
Anyone else sick and tired of being sick and tired? Let's talk.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
Check out Op's post for the small business. A re-print of good information that he found. I don't really feel that I am having too hard of a time making ends meet, but good information like that is part of the reason. I read through it & it seems to be on the mark to me. Where it speaks to proper use of advertising dollars it seems to be good info for how we watch our expenses, while at the same time speaking about the line of reasoning we might use to help us sell our products & services.
posted
Mr Mayor is right 100%. The main problem i guess is that we are artist and we are selling OUR talent OURSELVES and we want so much to do our stuff that we tend to give it. Do you think the professional athletes would ask themselves for millions if they were dealing direct to with the owners?? No way, these guy would do it for nothing because they are so maniac of their sports that they would do it for nothing, that is why there's always an agent or a manager to deal for them. it's the same for comedians, actors, musician, singers etc... we have to step back at every signs that we do and think that the customer will ALWAYS make more money with this signs than you charge him doing it. We should sell our signs the same way the newspaper, the radio or the television sell their advertising. Not selling a piece of woods or a stroke of brushes but sell the value of a sign, always tell the customer about the income from the sign he's about to buy. Imagine that you hire a professional advertising salesman, I'm sure he'll be able to sell two truck door for $1500 or even a 4' X 8' $2000. Take only as a comparison the price they already pay for that tiny little add in the phone book, at least $80 month that means $960 for a 2 inches by 3 inches sign! Changing the way we sell sign on a value for the customer basis instead of an hourly rate and we'll find ourselves working at $100 an hour instead of $25.
-------------------- Pierre Tardif P. Tardif Inc. 1006 boul. PIE-XI sud Val-Belair QC. Canada G3K 1L2 418-847-4089 pierre@ptardif.com Posts: 800 | From: Quebec city | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Mike Languein: Señor Meyer = will you be posting pics of the Yellow Snow Graphics Competition? I expect you guys in the Frozen North are adept at 'signing' in the snow - I have to go to the local mountains to 'bone up' on my winter autograph. But this raises a somewhat sexist question -- won't this event, by it's very nature, exclude the ladies from participation?
Nope, the ladies will not be excluded from the competition, they can take their aim while standing up as well. Although not the traditional methods the ladies are accustomed too, it is definitely possible.. you can search online for yourself and find the answers within..
**Edit**: By the way, yes I have witnessed the technique in action.. it's amazing and awe-inspiring to say the least.
[ January 24, 2003, 03:08 AM: Message edited by: Mike Pipes ]
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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quote:"The main problem i guess is that we are artist and we are selling OUR talent OURSELVES and we want so much to do our stuff that we tend to give it."
yup!
Sticker...are you referring to those paper cones ya get at the gas station....I've considered it myself, altho, I have as yet to try it..
posted
Hi to all my Letterhead friends and those I know through the Internet,
Mike meyer, Bill Riedel, Jay allen, Mike (ossie) Lavallee and several of the others have said it all....the problem is not in the costing of the meets, but in using the new knowledge and ideas gained at both the small and large meets to your advantage. Having late last year organised the International Meet in Sydney I know first hand the problems in running a meet. Attendees turn up, no pre-registration notice, but still expecting you to have their T shirt, to have organised 7 meals for them, all at your cost if they fail to appear.
The knowledge, techniques, and information one can return home with after a meet is an education that a price cost on it could not be calculated, all this and the associated travel expences are all TAX DEDUCTABLE. Each year I travel to two overseas Letterhead Meets,usually one in the States and one in the UK, and talking of costs, my first initial cost is a $3,000 airfare, then the costs of the meets and accommodation and I feel I get value for money.
Tell me where in the world you would find such an array of world class talent, on this week-end teachers, will give gladly any advice, help any query or give hands-on demonstrations at NO CHARGE whatsoever when their normal charge out rate would be far in excess of the meet cost. Just imagine the cost if you attended a Sign College for the same amount of hours with these teachers.
Here in Australia, the teaching of students is different than the States, it is by means of a four year apprenticeship working besides tradesmen combined with three years college training done by attending college one day a week.
Remember, you are really the only one who knows the true value of your work, attend one of these Letterhead meets, learn as much as you can, practice it and then charge accordingly, and remember this is in fact the cheapest education you can buy.
-------------------- Aussie John Caringbah, N.S.W. Australia
man makes a thing of beauty of that which he loves Posts: 148 | From: Caringbah, N.S.W. Australia | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by AdrienneMorgan: [QUOTE] Sticker...are you referring to those paper cones ya get at the gas station....I've considered it myself, altho, I have as yet to try it..
A, nope! No paper cones required, it's all in technique!
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Very, very well said Mr. Shortreed/Mr. Mayor, by you and by a few others. Use the knowledge to go out and make more money to spend lavishly on attending more meets. That's the secret.
But don't ever, I mean ever "give your work away". That's what keeps us down as a trade. Too many willing to do anything just to keep a buck coming in - without realizing the long term effect of your actions. Love what you do by all means - but don't give it away.
Don't question how someone can charge so little for this sign or that sign - sell your talents to the right customers. Establish a reputation for great work and great service. That's been our formula for success - and many others we know in the profession. Maybe it'll work for you also.
As an aside to this particular discussion: Steve, I have watched you manage this board like a kindergarten teacher - and like a wise old philosopher (depending on the situation). May I just congratulate you on your even-handed way of fairly dealing with the many temperaments and personalities that infect this BB - and providing insights that at one time may have not been so clearly defined. Your devotion to improving this trade has become your passion and you seem to be doing a damn fine job. I only have time to lurk every now and then because of our workload. But when you step in as 'Mayor'/moderator it is only after emotion has leveled and the need for a 'cooler head' or wisdom seems to sink in better than when in the middle of one of the many confrontations. So I just want to say thank you. You have really 'gelled' as a proponent of our profession - and even if no one else is impressed, I am.
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
My "Duck Soup Splatter Jam" entry fee was $25oo Everyone got a tee shirt,door prize, Drinks and snacks for 3 days and a sit down dinner Everyone SEEMED to have a good time We learned and taught,when ever asked to do so. I always learn something NEW that has helped my business sense,quality of work,AND my wallet. To quote Jay:You CAN NOT afford NOT to attend.
posted
I must jump in again. I have some difficulty relating to Steve's post. Our finances fluctuate with the economy but we make a good living, are always busy and find ourselves making choices as to how we spend our time and money. As Jay says, we are choosey about the customers and projects we accept. Judi and I have taught many a seminar on pricing, organization, marketing and profitability. All of this is often taught at most Letterheads meets and should be the first priority to any attendee. Learn how to be profitable from your peers so that going to a meet of any size will not be a financial hardship. Certainly we all must choose which meets to attend based upon the many ideas posted here already. Priorities in life must be set so that we all can accomplish our overall goals. If you have ever had the opportunity to hear Jay Allen or Jeff Cahill talk, you know how inspired you can be for this business and take that positive attitude home to make you more profitable and make your life easier. We have a unique business which ultimately we can control if one learns the skills. If your situation matches that outlined by the Mayor, then it is imperative that you spend some time with a successful Letterhead and learn how to improve your situation.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm on the commitee for the "LETTER-RIP ON RT. 66" meet.
I probably get in free, but that freedom comes with a huge price: endless meetings, several days worth of work loss crafting signs for the event and organizing a "kid's" event and I'm doing a seminar all three days on how to create monument signs ( the ones that look like huge fancy tomb stones.
My involvment will cost more than those that attend by a long shot. While I don't have to stay in motels or have costly travel expenses I ENJOY the burden of what ever expense to be a part of this meet.
There are creative ways to pay for your participation in a Letterhead meet. 1. Get a Part time job, deliver pizzas or something. 2. Add $15 bucks on every job for travel expensives 3. Get your butt off the BB and get out and go door to door, business to business and snap some work. A few extra jobs will more than pay for the meet expensives. 4. Drop your Yellow Page phone book add because it don't work anyway! 5. Sell raffel tickets to win a free truck lettering. Sell 1000 tickets for $1 each and letter the truck with scrap vinyl costing $3.00 6. Throw your spare change in a canister for 6 months. 7. Quite smoking. 8. Quite drinking beer, and soda pop...drink water only. 9. Stop eating steak...get use to p-nut butter, don't go out for expensive dinners. 10. Stop buying birthday presents.
THERE IS NO EXCUSE NOT TO FIND THE MONEY. if you want to get to a meet bad enough, the money is there. Use your imagination to find a way!
Hope you can make it to at least ONE meet this year.
posted
I have to jump in too!!! From Mexico. We didn't get here for a month by being stupid in business or by being frivilious with our money. In fact we can afford to be "residents" here too!!!
We also contribute once in a while, answering and asking questions!!
Seems to me..and maybe it IS ONLY ME ...That Jay and all of his buddies only appear here when a question of the costs of a meet appear.
THIS has happened before. Jay ONLY posts about meet cost questions.
Does he EVER answer newbie questions???
I don't know the answer to THAT question...check the last 5 years of responses and see!!!!
[ January 27, 2003, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: Dave Grundy ]
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Ola grundy. I'll defend Jay on this one. I personally emailed Jay to help support the Letterhead Meet Movement to this post. I asked him to add his words because he is a former meet host. When and how he posts is his business. But this post was a request. Are you eating the worm?
-------------------- Mike Meyer Sign Painter 189 1st Ave n P.O. Box 3 Mazeppa, Mn 55956
We are not selling, we are staying here in Mazeppa....we cannot re-create what we have here....not in another lifetime! SO Here we are!!!!!!!
quote: Seems to me..and maybe it IS ONLY ME ...That Jay and all of his buddies only appear here when a question of the costs of a meet appear.
THIS has happened before. Jay ONLY posts about meet cost questions.
Does he EVER answer newbie questions???
************** No, Dave Grundy. I don't answer many newbie questions here because of 'neighbors' like you with their venomous attitude towards "they" or "all of his buddies". Why do you have such an axe to grind with me, Dave. Far as I know we have never even met.
I work for the Letterhead "cause" in more positive ways. For instance, I do seminars. I'm pretty sure there are newbies attending those. And I also write articles that I am pretty sure newbies read also. (I hope anyway) So lets just say I do my work away from the keyboard and get a little more involved.
Your response is typical of a few on the BB that keeps more folks from being involved with it. That's partly why I seldom post here anymore. That, plus the fact that I am quite busy making money off the things I learned at Letterhead meets. But with attitudes like yours I can't say as I miss it.
Mike Meyer and Ray Chapman - you guys get it. Thank God. Thanks for your supportive words. I am most appreciative. But Mike, I don't know if I'll respond here next time you ask me to. Isn't that sad?
[ January 27, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Jay Allen ]
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Just out of curiousity, I checked my posting 'habits'. It showed me the last two years worth. Hmmm, seems as though there is a bit of generalization going on here. Dave Grundy, I count just one post (that's 1 post) that had to do with meets, one that offered a deal on HDU to Letterheads, one that asked for help on a response to a newspaper article bashing signs, one that offered solid work for any brush letterers, a quote request from a fellow Lettervillian, one wishing Bill Reidel a Happy Birthday and another thanking him for a beautiful portrait he did of me, one that comments about my hometown and thanking Letterheads for its' transformation, one that commented on Bob Parsons fine work, and one that suggested a store front over a home based business. What a jackass me and "my buddies" are. All I do is get on this BB and rag on people.
Dave, I feel that an apology is owed me. But will I get it? Not damn likely. You're a pretty brave guy behind that keyboard.
My Posts for the last two years:
The cost of Letterhead Meets January 22, 2003
4" thick x 4' x 8' HDU - 10# January 22, 2003
Quebec Letterheads Still On- November 13, 2002
What has happened to the idea of an international letterheads meet? July 25, 2002
Help me straigthen this lady out - Local newpaper editor bashes signs June 25, 2002
Show Low fires - anybody know how to get hold of Chris Christiansen? (reply # 4) June 24, 2002
We need a quote from a 52" Summa Durachrome printer (reply # 6) May 22, 2002 Letterhead/PinHead Talk
For all hand lettererers: Washington D.C. area work now - more later May 02, 2002 And The
Winners Are... (reply # 10) May 01, 2002 Letterhead/PinHead Talk
Another Bill Riedel Surprise (reply # 10) April 16, 2002 Letterhead/PinHead Talk
Happy Birthday Bill Riedel! (reply # 21)
A great way to tell time - Internet style January 22, 2002
What's Special About Your Town? (reply # 45) January 22, 2002
Caricature canvas of Al Zanetti by Parsons? (reply # 3) January 10, 2002 Letterhead/PinHead Talk
"Home based" or "Store Front" (reply # 11) December 16, 2001
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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