posted
I just noticed Ol Paints reply to Shannon about cutting direct from Freehand (HPGL plug and play like my cutter is a printer)... I'm designing in Illustrator on MAC and cutting thru Flexi (a bridge, that I would like to eliminate) is there a HPGL or another way, or suggestions to cut sign art directly from Illustrator with out using Magi-Sign or CoCut plug-ins or are these my only alternatives??? Any Responce ?
Thanks Letterheads, Rick
-------------------- Rick Whitmire Trick Communications & Signs Box 1124, Hudson, WI Posts: 132 | From: Hudson, WI | Registered: Nov 2002
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MAn, just get a used copy of cocut pro. you will never regret it.....
Ill never again do it the old fashoned way,,,,,
thats the issue, ease of doing the cutting with out any worries. or hassles.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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i said illistrator in the above topic... and it aint that hard to do and is really easy....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick, What brand of plotter are you using? Graphtec has a wonderful plug in for the Mac that cuts right from Illustrator. Right now I have my G4 hooked up to my 5100-75 through the USB port. It operates using GPGL. I have my G3 hooked up to the same plotter through the serial cable. I cut from that Mac using Signpost using HPGL. It only takes a second to switch the language on the Graphtec. It is a perfect solution. What's really cool is that I can be printing to the Edge, cutting the Edge prints on my Gerber GSxplus and cutting on the Graphtec simultaniously from the same computer! ....but if you have another brand of plotter, SignPost is a long proven bridge program also. MUCH less complicated than exporting to Flexi.
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1356 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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Thank You, You guys are great! I'll check out these options with my pardner to try and get some result, boy if this works its going to make my life easier.
By the way I posted this last nite LATE...dont you guys ever sleep?
Thanks agin Ric
-------------------- Rick Whitmire Trick Communications & Signs Box 1124, Hudson, WI Posts: 132 | From: Hudson, WI | Registered: Nov 2002
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Bill' Im running a (Encad-Novacut) graphtec cutter 24"... about 4 years old...but Im now also looking for a 36-48" cutter for larger projects that seem to be flowing into my shop more.
Rick
-------------------- Rick Whitmire Trick Communications & Signs Box 1124, Hudson, WI Posts: 132 | From: Hudson, WI | Registered: Nov 2002
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Your might contact Howard Keiper from Grahptec and see if the new plugin will drive your unit. His email is keip@pacbell.net and he is a merchant here on the board.
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1356 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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Just out of curiosity, what is so frusterating about using Flexi, on my Mac I just Copy my graphic from Illustrator and paste into Flexi, all done-ready to cut, tiling is easy, multiples are easy. I do like Magi-Sign, especially the price, but Flexi is great! Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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The difference is probably that Illustrator and Flexi are two separate programs to do one task....run a plotter. While MagiSign turns Illustrator into a sign program. (no "middle man")
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Hi Don I realize that benefit if your doing simple signs, but with some proficiency, there is little or no difference in exporting, and when you get into a high production shop, the benefits of a production software like Flexi or any of the other high end software, outweigh any plug-in software currently out there, and if your a low production shop with Flexi, whats the hurry? Saving seconds? Though I am a firm supporter in saving all documents to .eps or .ai instead of sign software's funky extensions, just in case your key bite the dust. Signpost is a little clunky to me compared to Flexi, I have mine collecting dust right now. I think by comparison, Magi-Sign is a little more intuative. Just an opinion though... Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Don & Rick, My reponce is the same as Dons... Why take two steps to go the same distance. When you design in Illustrator, Proof to your customer and recieve a approval to produce the sign or art...WHY, WHY, WHY take the art import it into another vector based program and output. The end result is to save at that point 2 files to arcive, 2 files to reclaime down the road if changes or updates are needed...Its not logical to me.Why not design in Illustator (which has more versatility than Flexi to my knowledge) and output, saving all the data of the project in ONE file. There has to be a logical solution to this, besides all my MACS can output to Printers and other devices WITHOUT a plug or key, I dont need a key on every mac to run the same program of Illustrator.
Thank all of you for your input...Please KEEP IT COMING, I need a solution!
Letterhead is a great site! Thanks Rick @ Trick
-------------------- Rick Whitmire Trick Communications & Signs Box 1124, Hudson, WI Posts: 132 | From: Hudson, WI | Registered: Nov 2002
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Hey Bill, I did contact Graphtec today about a plug in and talked to a tech-support (very helpful too) about running direct from Illustrator to my existing cutter (graphtec 24") . I had to close with him on a short notice because of an pre-existing appt., but Im hoping to get back with him tommorrow to possibly fing a solution. Bill thank you for your help and Ill try to let you know what I find out...It might be of some help to others also.
Thanks Rick @ Trick
-------------------- Rick Whitmire Trick Communications & Signs Box 1124, Hudson, WI Posts: 132 | From: Hudson, WI | Registered: Nov 2002
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Well to semi-answer your question, it is a good idea to have two files, at least in a production shop, one called art, and the other a production file. The art file being the original untouched file the client approved and the production file with everything welded, trapped, expanded, compounded, etc. at 100% size. Now I know you can do this on one file, but the reason I was taught this is because more than one person worked on it, there are other things I put like revision info and whatever, and in Flexi you can put job info or whatever. 2 files are as easy to archive as one, it depends on your archival techniques, being that I worked at mostly high production shops there was a process that was pretty much the same from place to place, and everywhere I worked you designed in Illustrator/Corel, and produced in Flexi, Signlab, G.A. or whatever, I have used cocut and some other one and found it to buggy for large jobs, (40'trailers with large graphics lots of copy with multiple colors 10 at a time) I used Signpost because it was cheap for me as a home solution. Anyways that is my justification for the use of a good production software even with the slight inconvenience of exporting, I know there is more than one way to skin a cat. I do have to agree about the key and only running on one computer but being a specialized software, I see the need for a software company to protect itself from pirating and multi-computer use. I agree it would be great to have the perfect plug-in that worked perfectly with a Mac and a PC on large jobs, but I have yet to see it, anyways thats my thought for the night, I think I'm working too much ;-) Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Allow me to react to some remarks ••• About file Sure you may also save more than one file when you need it. The most important is to insure the compatibility of your file to long term. What's about those artwork produced with those old sign sotware ? How many of us have had to loose time to convert files from the past ? Is it not our capital ? Choosing Adobe Illustrator as basis for all your design AND production would avoid you the kind of problems like the one at http://www.signweb.com/script/forum/read.php?f=20&i=9272&t=9272… For me, it's not a question of time of copy or export in AI. Or not only. It's more a question of spirit…
••• About size of file As far as I know (considering nobody reports me any problems), I declare NCS MagiSign as absolutely able to manage large files from Adobe Illustrator on a Mac. Some of the NCS customers are very large sign making companies (for those I know in Europa). I've been reported of letters for a very large ship done using it without any problems (I'm not authorised to reference its name, it's in the Navy). This is a far larger sign than the larger truck you could ever produce. Size of the file is in practice unlimited. Just design your project and scale them trough MagiSign if ever you need a larger output than Adobe Illustrator maximum workarea.
NCS MagiSIgn manages tiling and copies on the fly.
••• About keys
As fine resumed above, as software company, we have to guarantee some revenues to contine the development. So we opted for the use of those silly dongle. No other way if you don't want to be work heavy and disappear as fast as you deliver a solution. The fidelity of our customers allows us to keep NCS MagiSIgn on the road of all those new technologies and to improve it all the time. It also allows us to support our customers. I'm afraid some "free" solutions are just there to fill the need of some marketing team and not to bring customers a long term solution for their need.
?? About network First of all, people using multiple Mac could licence various Illustrator as design station without the need of NCS MagiSign on those. If ever they want, they could buy any of their additional licence at "licence plus" condition, so for the price of a single competitive software, you could have a range of Mac running a full sign solution based only on Adobe Illustrator. The question .
For network environment, we purpose NCS MagiSign Server, which allows background and remote driving on a plotter. Just allocate a Mac as slave (an older Mac is perfect for the task), install the Server on it and drop the plot files into this one from any of the MagiSign on the network. You may choose for immediate plotting or for "operator controlled" plotting.
••• about this website Yeah, what's an excellent one. Sorry for those who could be disturbed by the fact I could appear here as salesman. I can't answer to the topics without speaking about the pro of MagiSign. Sure I agree there that there more than one way to go and have lot of respect for those competitors who respect you.
-------------------- Philippe JACQUES info@magisign.com
Take a look at our NCS MagiSign plug-in for Adobe Illustrator : Posts: 185 | From: Ottignies Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium | Registered: Mar 1999
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For any die hard Flexi fans out there. I have a full copy of V 5.8 with a version6.0 v4 upgrade,complete whith serial dongle.There is also Design Elements for Flexi, Font and Graphic Library and the URW Flexi font Collection discs insluded. This is the Mac version and any reasonable offer will be considered. I haven't had this installed since I had my Power Mac 8100. It worked fine there which I'm assuming I had Mac OS8 on. I really have no idea how many updates have been issued since than so if your interested you may have to do some research first.
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1356 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hi Phillipe, I think you have excellent arguments as usual, and I know we have gone around on it, you have a great software and I think it is a good choice for a low to mid production shop. I was more commenting on that he already has a great software, and the process others use, as for the website I was commenting on Rick Whitmires, not this one, though I agree Letterhead is the best sign specific site around. As far as sounding like a salesmen, I wouldn't worry about it, you have a great product! Spread the word! I know the more support you get, the more development will go into making it a better software solution, and as a Mac user, we need more options. Anyways, I reccomend your software as a viable alternative, but I see too many times people trying to find a better solution only to be sold more of the same thing, vectorizing programs in particular, I have 5 sign specific programs myself, and I do almost everything in Illustrator, except output. Oh well thats my thought for the day, but you never know I cold have another....hehehe Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Like Rick, I do most of my design/layout work in Illustrator, and then save as .eps and cut from a sign cutting program. I had looked at MagiSign, and what held me back was that I don't like have to scale work up bigger than what Illustrator allows.
I can design in a small scale, but when i import to the cutting program (Vinyl Express) i can scale and see the actual cutting dimensions. I like know that my piece will be 18'-1.75" (or whatever) before I cut. I like being able to go back to the cut file, and take measurements for the installation. I like knowing that my border scaled up to 3.4 inches (or whatever). I like seeing the actuall height of the letters. I can't do that in Illustrator.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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Philippe, Thank you for commenting...I dont care if your a rep or not (responding on this site, I think is commendable) I'm just trying to find a solution. You make some sence in what you said ... although I THINK RUNNING ANY VERSION OF SOFTWARE a sign company will have glitches sometimes trying to import files saved in older versions of that software or importing from another software. I have never used magisign so my cratique of your product is not warrented, and I would assume Magisign being used by other sign shops and not hearing any neg responce on your product means it fufills thier needs. Trying to stream line my shop in the design area it makes sence to DESIGN-SEND-CUT from any computer like I would send a layout or concept to a printer...not puchase multiple toggles/software programs to get a job done or have to spend my kids inheritance to reach those goals. I know you have to make money to stay in business so do all us sign companies and I'm not asking for a break...but with technoligy at its level today and smart geeks wanting to make there mark ...someone is going to bridge the popular Illustration programs on the market with a simple cut GUI thats going to knock most sign bridge software programs out of the business. Especially those with plugs and multi-operating restictions...Your program is not my perfect fit but as close as what I can find via my needs. I might buy your program as a quick fix to my current needs or stay whit my flexi-pro I already have .but Im still looking toward a send and cut solution to Illustator. I know your time is as important as mine ...thanks for you input.
Thank You Philppe PS The lady at Summa( She is GREAT..resonsive and Knowlegable...Hats off.)
Rick@Trick
-------------------- Rick Whitmire Trick Communications & Signs Box 1124, Hudson, WI Posts: 132 | From: Hudson, WI | Registered: Nov 2002
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> in older versions of that software or importing from another software
All the appeal of NCS MagiSign is there : it's not a "second" software but a true plug-in, developped following Adobe rules and running just like any other tool within Adobe Illustrator memory.
Running MagiSign, you select within your artwork and from the first to lhe latest line of the sources, you are within Adobe Illustrator memory !
I'm aware some competitors call plug-in what's a basic plug-in which export to a bridge software where they automatically import your datas. But MagiSign is not this kind of product.
That"s mean there is no "MagiSign" file, only your Adobe Illustrator file. The single export of MagiSign is the plot file, which is a TXT file with all the plotter command within. You could never see it, but if ever you want to plot from a remote Mac onto a Slave Server, you have to create it to drop it into the Hot folder of the Slave. As it is a TXT file, you could open it from SimpleText to any wordprocessing software. Mainly unuseful for costumers…
The responsability of saving, importing files, importing old files format or any other is the responsability of Illustrator. Sure, Adobe could make errors as any software developper. And they have move from the original EPS 1.0 file format to the current PDF one. This is source of confusions for some people. But who else than Adobe can insure a large and long term support of its various and old file formats ?
The plug-in technology allows to reduce the amount of software you feel you will be using. Just take the time to load the demo and to experience it. The first time, you could be disturbed by the process. But you will discover how integrate it is within Adobe Illustrator. The nightmare for me is that people claims "we are cutting from Adobe Illustrator" and few mentionned that their favorite software is powered by MagiSign !
-------------------- Philippe JACQUES info@magisign.com
Take a look at our NCS MagiSign plug-in for Adobe Illustrator : Posts: 185 | From: Ottignies Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium | Registered: Mar 1999
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> i can scale and see the actual cutting dimensions. I like know that my piece will be 18'-1.75" (or whatever) before I cut. I like being able to go back to the cut file, and take measurements for the installation. I like knowing that my border scaled up to 3.4 inches (or whatever). I like seeing the actuall height of the letters. I can't do that in Illustrator.
All this is possible with MagiSIgn ! It's one of the reason to buy it ! MagiSign appears as a palette within Adobe Illustrator. Select any artwork and you will see it's dimensions in the unit of your choice. Specify any scale factor and the result will be displayed and cut using this one. This scale factor is kept in the palette until you decide to stop, so any new artwork, any new selection will be measured in this scale world. Meaning you will see the design size within Adobe "Transform" palette and the output size on the fly within MagiSign.
But I quite understand your remark. And this is why NCS MagiSign 2.0 will soon be available ! MagiSign is developped from 1995 (release in 97). NCS is a strong customer basis now and we continue to improve it all the days. It's dust in the software industry, but NOT a star who comes and disappears !
-------------------- Philippe JACQUES info@magisign.com
Take a look at our NCS MagiSign plug-in for Adobe Illustrator : Posts: 185 | From: Ottignies Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium | Registered: Mar 1999
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Whatever solution you are using to cut your Illustrator files, don't forget to visit the Adobe user to use forums, (http://www.adobeforums.com/) where all the AI community meet about our favorite software. A good place to discover many new tips all the days !
-------------------- Philippe JACQUES info@magisign.com
Take a look at our NCS MagiSign plug-in for Adobe Illustrator : Posts: 185 | From: Ottignies Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium | Registered: Mar 1999
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Thanks to all you, In reply, I am sorry it took so long for me to get back on this site, Thru & Fri were to many deadlines and not enough hours.
Curt... You are the first Ive heard that raves about CoCut, I did check it out early but now will give it a second look. Thank You
Bill... I did check with Graphtec tech but to my understanding the plug-in to cut from Illustrator for my Novacut/Graphtec is not available for the MAC, but it is available for the PC... but that would be sweet to at least try it on my existing equipment (NovaCut) before purcasing a new Graphtec for 5000. I have not and now nothing of SignPost, but Im going to check out that source also. Thanks Much
Rick...There is really nothing frustrated with Flexi other than Its an extra program I need to go thru to accomplish my goals of cutting vinyl, its expensive to add on extra keys (plugs) and updates. I understand what you were saying about woking in a shop enviorment with more than one creative person having access to art files and Its not abad Idea to have multiple copies of files. We back-up our project files about every week to10 days onto CDs and have lost very little sence starting...The nice thing is that original is always on the CD unmolested for all to use. Every shop has its operating proceedures so to copies are not a priority with us. After reading your input I think the process that you use on projects is alot like ours, Id just like to steamline that a little...Thanks Rick for your Help and input
IN CLOSING... I think the thing that bugs me the most about the sign software thats available to us sign guys is that darn KEY...We pay thru the nose to be limited to one work station. When I look around my office at all the different software programs on my shelves (approx 10) the ONLY ONE I see with a toggle key is Flexi which happens to be a prgram that cost me more than any other program I got...Whats wrong with this pic? At the time when buying my equipment its what was push as a solution for my cutting needs. I just think that after 9 years of bus that somthing more functional for my needs and cost affective is availale?
I hope I did not come across neg to any letterheads or vendors with this posting...thanks for your help you letterheads are GREAT!
Rick @ Trick
-------------------- Rick Whitmire Trick Communications & Signs Box 1124, Hudson, WI Posts: 132 | From: Hudson, WI | Registered: Nov 2002
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Rick, I just purchased my Graphtec 5100-75 a few months ago and it came with the Mac/Illustrator plug in. Are they saying that it won't work with your old Novacut or that it's not available period?
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1356 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick, Bill, and others... The Illustrator plug-in for Mac requires USB communication. That eliminates the Novacut right away. The 5100's always had USB, and SOME 4100+'s did as well. hk
-------------------- Howard Keiper Independent Contractor Benicia, Ca. thekeip@comcast.net
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Thanks for clearing that up Howard. Your input is always appreciated.
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1356 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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Howard, Is there a location close to the twin Cities, (MN-St PAUL) that runs MAC with the plug-in...so I can see how it works- get hands on? Does Graphtec have an outlet so users/prospective buyers of the cutters can hands on touch- feel-see the product or get informed on Graphtecs plug-in for Illustrator? Ive heard it works but dont know anybody who uses it??? Im ready to be the display model if you need one! I'd would love to cut from Illustator DIRECT on MAC and get an (acceptable for the trade) output.
Thanks Rick
-------------------- Rick Whitmire Trick Communications & Signs Box 1124, Hudson, WI Posts: 132 | From: Hudson, WI | Registered: Nov 2002
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Rick... I want to say YES to that but I don't know where. Our Central Region guy, Chuck Reitzel, knows all about that stuff up your way. I'll ask him to call you with the details. It's included as a standard item in every 5100 (5100's have USB) we ship. hk
-------------------- Howard Keiper Independent Contractor Benicia, Ca. thekeip@comcast.net
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