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I had a conversation with Bob today about the Edge material problems of last weekend, and so far, Gerber has only committed to replace the faulty materials. This is not the final settlement - Bob wanted some compensation for lost time as a result of faulty materials - but it is more or less what was expected.
The good news in this is that the publicity generated by this forum DEFINITELY got the attention of the Gerber corporate brass. According to the Gerber rep, there was an emergency meeting of all department heads in the materials division, as a direct result of his experiences and what was being written about them on the Bullboard. Howja like to be a fly on the wall for THAT session??!!
Gerber is between a rock and a hard place here. On one hand, they have the marketplace pressure from the makers of aftermarket foils, and they feel they have to hold the line on material prices. The only justification for higher prices of Gerber materials is the perception of better quality - so when problems like Bob's threaten that perception, they can't afford to circle the wagons and ignore it. On the other hand, they can't just buy their way out, or they'll have every Tom Dick and Harry wanting compensation every time a print doesn't look quite what someone had in mind.
The beauty of this is that because of the public pressure of this forum, a manufacturer was held to account and forced to pay attention to quality control, instead of the constant drumbeat of pricing pressure from distributors. I don't expect Bob to get his time and weekend back - but you can bet that Gerber (and other manufacturers) are going to start paying as much attention to the real world experiences of end users, as reported in Letterville, as they do to their market-share and profit reports. That's not a bad thing, after all.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Anything that gets people talking and working together is always a good thing. It wasn't long ago that Oracal was on the hot seat. Instead of ignoring the situation, Ken Sandlin of Oracal, explained the problems and listened to what we were saying. In return, Ken and his company made many new friends. It's no secret that everyone likes to deal with friends.
We ran a small shop for 25 years. I often felt like it was an "us against the suits" situation. Nobody seemed to be interested in what our small shops had to say. The only opportunity to rub shoulders with these guys was an industry trade show. Most small sign shops seldom attend these shows or belong to any of the sign associations that drive the direction of our sign industry.
Because of Letterville, Barb and I are finally getting to meet some of our suppliers. Guess what? They are often just like us! Some don't even wear suits! I'm still shocked to hear so many express amazement that Letterheads have computers, plotters, routers and today's other fancy new tools. This tells me we still have more work to do.
I hope more of our Merchants here in Letterville, as well as future Merchants, start to recognize that the industry's largest trade show takes place right here on this BB everyday of the year. It's not as exciting as Las Vegas, Atlantic City and the other exotic cities we love to visit, but it's still a really good spot to get to know each other and put a more human face on those large, cold corporations we rely on. Who knows? Maybe we can even get a few of these executives out to a live Letterhead Meet this year.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
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It's great to hear that Gerber is paying attention. Thanks for putting the post together Cam. Nobody likes to be too much of a complainer, so Bob had enough to worry about that without your post, maybe no one would have learned as much about his grief. We all stand to benefit from Gerbers attention to quality, & the knowledge that we are here posting & reading this board every day.
Maybe knowing that the "suits" may be losing a weekend over this is some small compensation. Hopefully they will see through to investing a little more in keeping Bob happy, & all of us who will hear about it if they do.
posted
Well this is a good ending to the Horror Show, today we got final word on Gerber's rectification of this whole scenerio.
Gerber has offered to compensate us quite well as a show of good faith for being such loyal customers. Over and above actual defective material. Details will remain confidential as agreed with Gerber Scientific. That is good news for me and my company, But on another note I have been told that they have created a task force to investigate, and if found correct any and all problems in the material Quality control department. This is great news for everybody.
I want to again publicly thank Cam for his effort, I do beleive his efforts has helped tremendously not just me but everyone who buys or will buy Gerber machines and materials.
The whole reason we buy Gerber products is for this main reason, not to have nightmarish problems, heck you can have those with any brand products. But I as a small company rely on Gerbers high quality standards to run my business as efficiantly as possible, in a small business any down time is critical and very costly. The money we spend on the machines and materials is an investment as shown in this case.
Yes we did have a disaster that cost us money, but we also had a Company with enough integrety to rectify the problem, and the whole problem, not point fingers at other manufactureres.
When you use Gerber machines, & materials then there is no finger pointing to be done.
Kudos to Gerber Scientific for remaining to be a strong, and in my opinion a top notch company in todays Sign Industry.
[ January 10, 2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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It's good to see a company take that kind of responsibility, great ending. I always thought Gerber was a good company, it's nice to see it in action.
Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1540 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Word of mouth advertising will either MAKE YOU or BRAKE YOU!
I don't mind the expence of TOP QUALITY materials as I try to give MY CUSTOMERS top quality signs Backed up by the manufacture of the materials Way to go GERBER my 4B still makes me money.
posted
Steve, as Bob wrote, the terms of the settlement were confidential. I only know about it because I was somewhat involved, and took on the task of putting Gerber on notice with the first bullboard post. I can say that Gerber did not directly compensate Bob for lost production time, in other words, no, he didn't get a check.
What was so gratifying to me as a Gerber customer, is that they responded - quickly and effectively - to a problem. Was that response in part due to the publicity on this site? Probably. It sure didn't hurt. I would hope that other sign people use this site when they have a problem.
Look at how this might have gone. Bob has this problem. He calls his supplier, who basically says, look, we just sell this stuff... so he calls the manufacturer, who says, you ought to take this up with the supplier... anybody who's ever been stuck in that loop knows how frustrating it can be. My writing about it here put the whole issue in front of the industry and held a manufacturer accountable. And writing as a witness to the events, may have given it more credibility. Gerber's response, as far as Bob and I are concerned, was appropriate. 'Nuff said.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Steve, Let's say you made a sign for a local restaurant, the sign failed and fell apart, It is Saturday night and your shop is closed, so they send a guy to Staples to buy the biggest posterboard they can buy, make an amature sign and rig it up on the lawn. That night business is way off, not to mention the time and agrivation of having to make a temp sign. Come monday they rip you a new one, and want compensation for lost time and money. How would you handle this?
I'm sure you would replace the sign as it was, you'd do research as to WHY it fell apart, You'd probably even offer to make the original sign the most outstanding sign on the cape to compensate the aggrivation and to make them even more money than the previous sign would make. As a sign of good faith.
Or maybe you would do some other signage to compensate for the lost time and money, but would you actually write a check to the restaurant for lost income? I know I wouldn't. Hell I couldn't and if I did for one I'd have to do for all whenever a problem arose.
[ January 11, 2003, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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What a commendable response from all involved. although I don't own or purchase Gerber products, my respect for them just jumped several notches. May we all attempt to follow the example they established. Thanks, guys!
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6817 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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