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Just got a pallet of goods today. I had found the new owners of a longtime vendor to be making little errors more frequently, so for this recent $2000 order, I decided to try out another vendor who I previously only used for my gerber foils. (& my Edge)
I was assured that they have frequent shipments trucked to a barge & brought to other customers they have in Hawaii, but compared to how the other vendor did things, these guys don't know how to pack up a pallet.
Instead of adding plywood (actuallu good MDO sometimes) on top & bottom & using heavy cardboard corner reinforcements like I was accustomed to, these folks just wrapped a little shrink wrap on it with no "top loading" request & then the carrier let it ride all the way here with some ton of other crap on top of it.
The guy from the freight carrier just left from doing his inspection & I would say about $1000 worth of stuff has some damage. Of course some rolls of vinyl with crushed perforations on the outer 25% of the roll could be used on my friction feed plotter, & later maybe on the edge. Some dented & dinged transfer tape could end up being useable after removing the damaged portion. I don't want discounted garage sale quality or price. I want premium goods & am happy to pay full price to get them.
I've wasted 2 hours already today slowly unpacking while shooting photos, sorting out damaged goods & talking with the inspector, & I haven't even talked to my vendor yet because they were already closed when I got the shipment. The last thing I want to agree to is dealing with the time & risk to try to use marginal goods in exchange for price reduction.
What would be ideal is to wake up & find that this didn't really happen, but next best thing would be replace everything, take the damaged stuff outta here, & maybe comp me the $136 freight bill for my time.
I don't know what will happen in the end I just needed to grumble though.
Also what thoughts do any edge users have on this other concern. Below is a photo of damaged rolls, but also 4 edge cartridges that were loosly packed in a box that was clearly crushed down upon & the box was damaged, but the cartridges appear to be fine. I'm not too keen on keeping them because I just don't think precision machines should have componants run in them that may be tweaked however slight. I feel like I would be considered paranoid or self centered to want these replaced, but I also have a gut feeling that some amount of minor issues may be down the road for me if I dont.
[ September 28, 2002, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
posted
The easy answer is turn down the order. I realize that could be a hard thing to do if you are going to run short or out before the order can be replaced but I think that you are correct when you mention using these materials with precision equipment.
The manufacturer did not intent for this product to be used in this condition and you should not be expected to "deal" with a damaged shipment. The shipper is at fault here. I don't know how things work where you are... you probably don't have next day shipping from a supplier (or maybe you do).
Send it back.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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Doug, your situation is a real bummer. If the stuff was not packed right to get to you, who packs it right to go back to California?
Hopefully your vendor has a positive customer attitude and will work with you to set things straight. What should happen and what is required by law are two different things. As a matter of good customer service, I think your vendor should replace the order with an entirely new shipment that is properly packed. In return, you can use his proper packing materials to repack and return the original goods. You get what you want - good material. Your vendor gets everything back with no further damage. He can salvage most of it without a large loss other than shipping costs. If he wants your future business he can toss you a bone by way of free shipping for the whole thing.
If you have the space, you might offer to store the other material for a while so the vendor has a chance to sell the damaged goods to other signmakers in the islands.
Whether the shipper or the vendor was responsible should not be your problem. The vendor has to do right by you, and how he works it out with the shipper should be his problem, not yours.
Hope things work out ok. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I seem to get that type of problem UPS. I'm not knockin UPS but I have had several boxes smushed like yours. I also had one with FedEx, that was when I got my VMP program, I thought it was totaled but everything went fine. I think these employees just don't care about handling with care.
-------------------- Tony Broussard Graphic Details Digital Media Loreauville, LA Posts: 395 | From: Loreauville, LA | Registered: Jul 1999
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Friday, I chose to pick up the pallet from the truck company that brings in the containers from the harbor, & then later delivers goods to my door. I had some scheduling conflicts with a dentist appointment, so rather then risk waiting until Monday, I went for the goods myself, since it was right up the street. They brought out a pallet covered in shrink wrap, set it in my pick-up & asked me to sign for recieving it. The shrink wrap simulated a cube of goods & I saw no immediate indication of damage. 10 minutes later I cut the shrink wrap & my heart sank.
I called DHX (the truck company) & reported the problem. They said the inspector was an hour away & they would arrange for him to inspect my goods when he returned. I asked to have him call, which he did, & he agreed that I could unload my truck, & have the goods inspected without seeing the fully loaded pallet.
I took about 20 pictures of the situation outside & inside each box as it was un-packed. When the inspector came, he explained that the goods were not marked for loading on top, & that vendors shipping ocean freight should know that to fill containers, pallets get stacked on top of other pallets, unless otherwise specified. At this point I did not know, or care, who took responsibility as long as it wasn't me. The guy wasn't defensive about his companies role IMO, just informative. And from years of experience recieving pallets from my old vendor (possibly new again ) I agreed that the pallet was not packed well at all.
The inspector pointed out that my vendor, who remains nameless so far, (until I can report how they handle this) indicated on the freight bill that the contents were "wiring plugs". Don't ask me why! This small detail plays into things somewhat, because even without specific instruction, goods are stacked according to durability as well as can be determined, & this pallet did not appear to be a fragile shipment of consumables for use in precision equipment, but more like a sturdy bunch of rubber, insulation & copper. Also mis labeling goods could be a serious offense if hazaderous materials are not claimed. (not an issue in my case, although there was one liquid item that fortunately survived the trip)
I was given a copy of the inspection report, & a blank claim form that I could fill out & file. We agreed that the vendor should respond to the situation first, as that may result in my needs being met. If they fall short of the compensation I require, I could add a claim through DHX. They did ask more then once why I signed for the goods. I said I figured that was so I didn't come back tomorrow & say where's my stuff? They pointed out the tiny fine print that says "recieved in good condition" I asked what difference does that make, if the shrink wrap looks good because it hits 4 corners & bounces back to looking like straight walls on 4 sides, but the boxes are clearly all crushed once the wrap is removed. He agreed that my photo documentary & prompt phone call establish that the goods were in fact damaged when I got them, but advised that I be more conscious of examiming before signing in the future.
I finished my day Friday by calling the vendor & leaving them a message about the problem. I called them Monday when I hadn't yet heard from them by afternoon their time. I asked for the owner, but got the sales guy who handled arranging my shipment instead. He was "understanding" of my dissatisfaction, but no meaningful communication occurred beyond my relating this story again. I reminded him that not only did I spend $24,000.00 22 months ago when I bought my Edge from their company, & now I'm trying to switch my $6,000.00 in annual sign supply business to them, but that I also just spent $1,100.00 on software last Friday (right before picking up my pallet) when I purchased a Flexi 7 cross-grade package from them.
I am thankful that I have credit & have not yet paid for these supplies, but of course my credit record is important, so I need to reach a solution with this vendor soon, so I can put my mind to rest on this. I will call again this afternoon & expect to talk to the owner. He actually called me 3 weeks ago, apologizing when he learned that I waited 10 days for a quote on this $2,000.00 order, & I ended up having to call & rattle the cage a little to finally get my quote. (I guess he is used to calling the east coast, because he called me at 4:30 am, but I was driving home from a late night printing campaign signs)
I will let you all know how this works out.
[ October 01, 2002, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
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Just to fill out my already lengthy diatribe, here is the assortmant of pics I clustered onto a page to print out for the inspector. Some are sideways, & some too small to view at this size, but it did serve as a good printout, & my vendor will get the high res. versions!
posted
Doug, I don't know much about ships but, usually, truck drivers are in a big hurry to get your stuff unloaded and leave. If they don't want to give you time to unpack everything, insist that they let you write "possible hidden damage.....subject to inspection" on the freight bill. Sign and date below this and have the carrier sign it.
If the carrier allows you to inspect the goods and damage is found, you have at least two options. You can REFUSE the freight, as damaged, before it is unloaded or before it leaves the dock. You don't have to accept it. Or, if just some of the freight is damaged and you really need it bad, you can call the terminal and/or shipper BEFORE the driver leaves and BEFORE signing the freight bill, OK it with them, accept the shipment as damaged and settle with them later. Usually the driver will want to report it to his terminal before leaving anyway.
Sometimes though, during the initial inspection, hidden damage is missed. The main thing is to make a note of possible damage on the freight bill, in the driver's presence, before signing it.
I worked as a recieving clerk for ten years, at a large factory, and have seen a LOT of damaged freight. Some damage is accidental but, most is caused by just plain negligence.
[ January 09, 2003, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7405 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Doug, unless something happens pretty quick with the dock lockout, you'll have to roll out the company Learjet, or perhaps the company canoe to get replacement stuff.
Keep a smile on your face and in your heart as best you can. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Thanks Vic, I actually got wind of the lockout before the local newspaper thanks to the freight inspector. He reminded me of the strike 3 years ago, & the fact that I should get to Costco before the crowds to stock up on toilet paper & rice, which I did. For some reason these are the 2 things that were stockpiled in the extreme last time we were shut off from our usual supply of off-island goods.
2nd day now & the owner of the company I bought the sign supplies still did not consider my concerns worthy of his time yet.
posted
Well Vic, I was just wondering the same thing an hour ago, so I called the Accounts payable department to ask if they got their invoice that I returned to them stating my intentions (or lack thereof).
They said they still had not got a resolution on their claim with the shipper, but he would agree to stopping the clock on the terms for all damaged goods if I would proceed with timely payments of the un-damaged goods.
That is not the complete weight off my shoulders, but to keep my credit good, I don't have to worry about paying anything for damaged goods yet.
As for resolving the solution for what will ultimately be done regarding partially damaged goods, I would think good customer service would have had these decisions made quick & painlessly, without regard to how much the shipper pays on the vendors claim. Since no-one can say it is my fault, if the vendor wants my continued business they should have made things right long ago.
quote:...my vendor, who remains nameless so far, (until I can report how they handle this)
I will now mention Interstate Electric as the vendor responsible for the packing job, & the questionable level of service after the fact. I will also mention that Product Sign Supply was my vendor for 5 years who never messed up a pallet, packed them extremely well, but had fouled up a string of little things in recent months.
I have ordered goods from PSS about 5 times this month. IEC has not got anymore of my business since this problem although they have been a good source of Gerber foil cartridges which PSS doesn't stock, so hopefully things will turn out & I will continue to use them for at least those purchases.
[ January 09, 2003, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
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I want to report on the solution of this shipping crisis. Bob's recent trouble with Gerber material quality, & the pending resolution that will be posted here reminded me to follow up on this thread.
I did get Interstate to temporarily credit me for the full amount of the materials that were partially damaged to keep me patient while they appealed the claim that was initially denied from the shipper (DHX).
Last week I got the good news that Interstate Electric Co. has reiceved a settlement of about 30 - 35% of the value of the claim, but they have left the credit to my account for 100% of the value.
Even though the damage to several rolls of material was only on the outter 10 - 20 yards they are allowing me to keep the goods & salvage what I can, as well as not requiring me to pay for the damaged goods.
This solution has made me much more willing to trust them with my next large order. The level of compensation does offset the hours of stress & hassle dealing with the order, the claim, & all the follow up calls & I felt they deserved to be recognized in this forum, since I did name them as the party at fault.
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I just needed to grumble though.
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) I agreed that the pallet was not packed well at all.
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