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I'll be working on building a web page for my latest ad-venture.... I've used some build your own stuff in the past and frankly it suits me fine..... I need to be in charge of the graphics and changes and what not. Here is what I am looking for.
I am low budget at this time and can build a respectable looking site at Yahoo for $15 a month, please spare me the rehtoric of "you get what you pay for".... I plan to be fairly heavey on images and graphics and monthly changes to show latest projects and so on.... I'll be offering items for sale and would also like to take payment online.
I can manage basic web launching stuff , simplicity will keep me from putting off my monthly adjustments.
I would sincerly appreciate input from anyone with expirience building a website.... please no comments on my spelling!
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
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If you plan on having a graphics intensive website, the plans that Yahoo offers may or may not work out because of space and bandwidth limitations, it depends what Yahoo is really offering.
I'd really recommend using Macromedia Dreamweaver to do the page layout, it just makes the design SO much easier and more flexible. Plus it tracks the links to files and makes sure they're operational before you publish the site, which cuts down on a lot of trial and error page building. Dreamweaver does much more than that but that's just an example coming from someone that used to be a hardcore NOTEPAD.EXE user for designing web pages.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I design in Front Page just because I've owned it a long time and am familiar with it. I don't like the program. When I ask my web designer friends about Dreamweaver, they say it is a great program with a steep learning curve and they encourage me to stay with Front Page. Maybe Mike Pipes can come back and address learning curve for us.
I think the biggest technical issue in designing a website is the tradeoff between image size/resolution and loading speed. We like to think everybody has fast connections, and maybe they will someday. There are still enough people out there with dial ups that it is important to watch page size/download speed closely. Once again, maybe Mike can also talk more on this topic. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I use Adobe GoLive on mine, not being up on the everchanging HTML lingo, it allowed me to build it with techniques im used to. (which i need to update now that you mention it.)
For a host, I use Ipowerweb. they have a ton of room at small cost... something like $6 a month or something... and I can do what ever i like there. seem pretty helpful people.
-------------------- --If you don't care where you are, you ain't lost.
Tony Potter Blind Mice and Company 3001 Bever Ave. SE Cedar Rapids, IA 52403 (319) 573-9001 www.blindmiceandcompany.com tonypotter@yahoo.com Posts: 209 | From: Cedar Rapids, IA | Registered: Nov 1999
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Do you get a shopping cart, payment processing at yahoo for 15 a month? For just hosting a site it's not that great of a price.
I vote dreamweaver too. I don't know diddly about setting up a store ... but found DW easier to learn than FrontPage. What are you planning on building with?
Advise... Building with templates and using style sheets makes everything much easier to update/control later.
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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It offers a bunch of plug-ins called extensions that will allow you to set up a store relatively pain free. There are plenty of other extesions too, for anything from PAYPAL to clocks. It basically allows the designer to use java script functionality through menus, that's pretty phat, as in livin large!
I'm using Yahoo and satisfied with their sevices. It's more of a portfolio site than an e-store...
Good luck. Let us know how you make out.
peace
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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Hey Alan, where are some good sites for DW extensions?
Thanks
-------------------- Tony Broussard Graphic Details Digital Media Loreauville, LA Posts: 395 | From: Loreauville, LA | Registered: Jul 1999
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Not sure what you get on yahoo for $15/ month but Ive been using
Powweb.com at $7.77 / month - free setup, 2 months add'l free with a whole year.
250 meg of space & 25 Gig Transfers/mo will handle a faily high amount of graphics. SSL, PHP, CGI, PERL, are all free - MySQL is $10 one time only - email is free, and more.
And a very good user support area
Been using them for 1/2 year, no major problems, good service
As for creating the site, Front Page is fairly simple. For stuff like mailing lists, guestbooks, shopping carts, cgat rooms & message boards, and much more see
-------------------- Bob Sheers 24 Hour Services Columbia, MD USA 410-995-3655 bob@go-to-airport.com Posts: 140 | From: Columbia, MD, USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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Dreamweaver learning curve - I didn't find it all that tough to pick up, IMO it works like a word processing program on steroids - very powerful program... Add into the mix that I use the UltraDev version which has even more advanced features to learn. Of course, I've never had a problem picking up new skills as I've needed them no matter what they are, and I'm only 26 so I don't have any hurdles to jump as far as new technology is concerned... Dreamweaver is probably one of the easiest programs I've had to learn, from my prospective at least.
Image quality vs download speed: The later versions of Photoshop show you approximate download times of images when you save them as formats you'll find on the web (jpg, gif, png) and they allow you to adjust the quality on the fly while also previewing the image and the respective download time.
I try to keep download times to a minimum by "recycling" images in the navigation menu, ie: every page uses identical navigation not only for consistent looks, but the first time it's downloaded it gets cached so each page doesnt have to be completely downloaded over and over. When I have an image that's a bit on the large side, I provide a thumbnail link to the image as opposed to dropping the image into a page and forcing people to wait for the download. Let the viewer make the choice of waiting for it, otherwise they'll simply close a slow loading page.
Dreamweaver Extensions: These can be found on macromedia's website, they setup an exchange where developers can upload the extensions so others may download them. Some are free, some cost coin depending who made 'em. There are also reviews and tech info listed for every single extension listed, and there's a ton of them. Check out this link: http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/ On the right side of the page you'll see a section with the heading "Resources" and underneath you will see "Exchanges".. create a free account with macromedia, download the Extension Manager which runs seamlessly inside of Dreamweaver, and you're good to go.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Of course, like anything else there's a learning curve in building web sites. This week, I finished my 50th web site, which I guess is some sort of milestone. But looking back, my first sites were really pretty amateur - and its pretty hard to disguise amateur sites, and sites that look self built.
If you're goal is to instill confidence in a buyer, then usually self-built sites don't accomplish it. It takes a long time to get to the point of building professional and functionally intelligent sites. Consider hiring a professional if you're serious about what you're selling.
And building a site, and getting people to come to it are two different things. Its not like the 'field of dreams' - if you build it they will come . It doesnt work that way - web marketing is a whole other animal itself.
"Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies. But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be." - Rush Posts: 1192 | From: Washington, NJ | Registered: Feb 1999
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Dan I agree with you about having a site and then driving traffic to it. By the way, checked out your work and it sure looks good. I dont know where you get the paitence to build that many sites.
I dont think a good site is a result of the software you use but rather a result of the design and content quality you put in it. Navigation is important too.
I'm no professional and I'm woking on mine. The last leg of it will be to get all the pics for the gallery set up. Thats a big project in itself. I'll sure be glad when Im done with mine and all I have left to do is the web marketing.
Once again. Nice work Dan. Im gonna go back and look at some more of your stuff. I encourage everyone to build there own just to see how much work goes into developing a good site. Makes them appreciate it when they pay to have it done right.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
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Hey my head is spinning!!.... check out this guys site...www.firegold.com stumbled across his page in the directory section and it is similar to the impact I am trying to make. one of the brothers from Maine no less! I look at my website to be like a brochure and the best way to convey what I like for work and what my work turns out like. I can only get dial up in my area.... don't laugh last year we still had 2 cans and a string, so my impression is simple well planned and pics to show some of the goods is best for quicker downloads. Like any business this website will grow in time to evolve into the best use for my needs. I don't need to have a Bentley right now to carry my brush box and one shot down the super highway, I'm more of a Ford Ranger type.
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
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Dreamweaver and Fireworks have been our tools for web design.
I must mention that I feel extremely fortunate to have found an enthusiastic partner in Dave McDonald (tech-head extraordinaire) with our web ventures. For me to even think about attempting a professional looking site, I knew I needed the help of someone who knew more about the things I find exhausting to engage in. We make such a terrific team! We've done well with it, and the fact that we survived the creation of my site together was a true test of our perserverance. (very difficult to work for yourself, ... for yourself ... if ya know what I mean.)
Since then, we've taken on web design as another source of income together. It's been lucrative, challenging, and a very unique branch off the "usual fare" with regards to design. Being the creative entity in the equation, I periodically (ok, frequently) suffer frustration with the limitations the internet presents. Fortunately, I get over it and adjust. heehee! Web Design definately takes some befriending, but it sure beats working off a ladder.
I am fortunate to have had encouragement, and influence from friends like Dan A.( www.graphicd-signs.com ) Joe Rees, ( www.capecraft.com ) and Mark Fair ( www.markfair.com ) in this arena. All greats, (in my humble estimation), with regards to design, web design, and marketing.
Stephen, in checking out the site you referred, I find myself more impressed by the work, rather than the way it is showcased. But then, I'm a pretty hard sell I guess.
Be prepared to ride the waves of frustrations with the learning curves, and have fun with the creation of your new site.
I look forward to seeing it!
Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
I started out using FrontPage a few years ago only because it CAME WITH a Microsoft Office Suite. My boss said "We need a web site" and I found myself diving into it. I didn't really care for FrontPage partly because of all the bloated code it added to the HTML. I do believe newer versions behave better.
After a couple of web sites with FrontPage I decided to start using Dreamweaver and the other programs that come with the Macromedia MX Suite. It was like learning all over again from scratch but I think it was worth it!!
I agree that the person creating the site has more to do with the outcome than the software used.
The Macromedia Suite is not cheap so it may be hard to justify if you're only doing your own site.
-------------------- David McDonald Palm Harbor Florida USA
It's so easy my son does web pages. Lots of templates. Very easy to publish your webpage. It has a wizard to upload yer pages. It has everything. And there are many places to get additional free help. Not so complicated as dreamweaver, but then again you likely won't be doing CSS sheets either. You may find that many web pages are produced in this product.
I used front page at first but that added way to much un needed code that slowed the pages. Tried Dream Weaver its very good but i did not need all the power and learning curve was / is too much for the average user. (me)
Tried a slew of others but nothing was really complete.
Found Net Objects Fusion. Perfect. get a trial here.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5278 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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I have NetFusion also. Very easy to use. My son has expressed an interest with web design so I installed it on his computer to see what he can do with it. Not a tool for serious web builders, but for us dabblers it works well.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2787 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Many thanks to all who posted a reply, I gotta say I was disapointed at the interest and number of responses compared with what I got from a "Sign Related" question about gold leaf and clear coats.... Thanks Tim for your reply....
All things considered I tossed together a prototype page of what I wanted.... I do targeted advertising with the folks I want to do business with, every other yahoo I just don't give a damn about. Not sure who I will launch with ..... still looking at my options for that, anyhow heres the front page and agian many thanks for the replies!!!!
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
First of all I don't know anything about web page design, but 2 things strike me. One, I had to wait a long time for this to load with my old dial-up, and two, its too big for my screen so I have to scroll down to see it all. It seems a bit too much for one page.
I like the basic design, although I think there are too many different type styles in use. I would just use the casual style in the second paragraph...it seems to fit well. Also I think the lime green at the bottom is too far away colorwise.
Now that I've gotten all the critique stuff out, I think you're off to a good start. I like your ideas about targeting your clientele...that's what I need to be doing.
I think this has been an interesting thread. I'm on the verge of doing a web page too.I just got dreamweaver, so I was glad to hear so many people praising it.I still can't decide if I should just let someone else do it though; I can see a lot of pluses towards having the first one set up well.
Good luck with your project!
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Hey Jeff thanks for the input!... dial up huh???... we only have dial up here too.... on copper wire no less, no fiber optics & cable tv is another year away (who cares)..... kinda like going down the internet superhiway with square wheels on a wheelchair!... wait till you try to load your page! I can go on about targeting customers but over the years I found that marketing to the masses is a massive pain in the arse and wastes a lot of production time. If you can surf the web and swap naked pics with neighbors you can build a web page.... for me it is a control thing...... heh heh heh heh Good luck to you either way you get it done.
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
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Go here and get some FREE professional marketing advice from a real marketing expert... Forget all the theoires, seat of teh pants guesses, and all the other BS u get from the "wannabees.. You will be so happy u did..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5278 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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By God Curtis you are a genius!!!.... Telemarketing is the way acording to this web guru!!!... hey what's your phone number????...... LMAO Seriously though, at 40 and looking at my next 25 years bending brushes, my greener grass involves traveling more and wasting less time hagleing with potential problem clients. I started young hanging around with a gent of a sign guy.... he use to say.... " it's what you learn after you know it all that counts....." I don't need to know it all but what works for me is simply find what you enjoy doing.... find the folks that will pay you for it and make them happy. I'm doing old motocycles so I joined the AMCA and go to the meets... stripe a few bikes show some pics and give them a card. Serious buyers will call me at my remote off the beatin path hicksnot town and be happy to ship stuff prepaid and then I deliver it..... heh! travel with pay!... gotta love that!
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
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thanks nettie for the compliment. i am proud to be included with such greats as dan, joe and you and dave(you and them are real website designers in my opinion because of the graphic content)
I see most of your questions have been answered. Regarding Jeff's comments about the page being too wide, as a general rule (they are meant to be broken, if not bent)I try to make my layout 760 pixels wide by 420 pixels high for starters. Most people have their monitors set at 800x600 px.. 760x420 allows room for the nav bars and stuff without crowding your design or pushing it off the page. If you need to make bigger, go with a deeper page or add additional pages with links, avoid building wider than the 760 recommended.
I would also recommend using HTML for your copy vs. using a big bitmap. Helps save major space and is much easier to update.
2 cents worth.
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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Hi Stephen - awesome work. It deserved a very well done web presentation and you look creative enough to manage it. My best advise is to find a web building geek and make them your new best friend. I happen to use Net Objects Fusion, the only program I have any experience with, because it was what my befriended techie used. Without someone to guide me through the first few pages, I would have been very lost. I'm a Corel Draw guy, and Net Objects ain't Corel Draw! I get it now ok, and use Corel Draw and Corel Photo Paint heavily for creating my web graphics. The trio, Net Objects, Draw and PhotoPaint are all the tools you need to do ANYTHING you want to do, but you will need all three (or equivalents).
About online purchasing - the 'real' way with credit cards is expensive to set up and costs monthly. Don't recommend unless you were taking a lot of orders. For occasional sales look into PayPal. (www.paypal.com) Once you set up an account with them and go through their confirmation process, they will provide you with free "Buy It Now" links you can place on your site to handle transactions. Their per-sale fee is higher than full credit card merchant accounts by a few percent, but there's no monthly fees.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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HUH???? actionplan.com is telemarketing?????????
maybe i missed something.... but telemarketing is not his big ticket item.
his big ticket is guiding small business owners into developing a congruent marketing plan,, in fact his latest stuff deals with Web commerce and web site development...And if u sign up for his free newletter u will see just that.....
Telemarketing???/// no one hates it more than I. if that was his focus then i would never recommend his advice or posted his site.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5278 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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For an example of PayPal as described by Joe Rees check out www.NoCones.com Its a simple little site I did in a few hours to sell to a relatively small market. I considered using a "real" merchant account but its not worth it for this particular site.
-------------------- Brian Snyder Sign Effectz Woodbridge, New Jersey Posts: 723 | From: Woodbridge, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I use the free editor that comes with Netscape and Flash 5. Some people don’t like it, but once you use it a little bit its fun.. Jdee My Goofy Home Page
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