Guess its been a bad year. We have had several shops belly up around these parts.
One really good shop (one man shop) who is very creative, started selling real estate for Coldwell Banker. (he use to make their commercial site signs...guess it wasn't enough)
A neon and electric shop went under. They also did Edge printing.
Another one man shop told me today he is thinking of taking work on a ship. 30 days on, 30 days off. (and this is central USA where there is no large bodies of water for miles!)
Next a big sign shop, one who has one numerous ISA awards, lost thier shop forman and two of the award winning designers. The only ones left in the shop are the office people and a few apprentices. That can't be good.
One of the other shop, aslo a very good sign artist, is now speciallizing in electrical sign repair and changing light bulbs in parking lots.
I got a bad feeling about this. A really bad feeling.
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I'm afraid that hard times are still looming. I have my opinions about what this country needs to be concentrating on and it doesnt seem to be the economy.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
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Dave, now is a good time to offer your services to the other shops left that may have depended on the shops that closed down.
It seems to me like this opens up your market a bit.. less competition to deal with, and now maybe a possibility to lean on the city council to drive the sign code in a direction that promotes more of the kinda work you like to do, creating your own niche!
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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It gets scary. I haven't had one order from Coldwell commercial for probably 4 months. Usually I am swamped with name riders this time of year. Commercial real estate is at a standstill in Seattle for sure. It was my slowest summer I have ever had. But it has been the busiest holiday season I have ever had too. This business has always been crazy. And it seems to be getting crazier as we speak....
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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I'm in the middle of three fairly big projects, have talked with a few smaller deals that are pending, and working on an advertising brochure for an engineering firm. My part time help has gone AWOL so it crams a few things up for me.
As January rolls around, I expect things to slow down as usual and hope for the best as things pick up in the spring.
All in all, this has been a very busy year. I made more money and was able to spend more on equipment and things around the shop. All year I have heard how things are slowing down and I do think that it is true, but I still hope for the best and plan to stick it out.
Last week I went to San Francisco with my wife. As she was speaking at a conference for a couple of days, I had time to scope out the area and see what kind of signs are in that area of the country. Boys and girls, they need some better signs in San Fran! I did see some good signs and some good designs but MAN!, there's a lot of crap out there. (One of the more interesting signs I saw was "NEED MONEY FOR ALCOHOL RESEARCH"... I took a picture of this individual and he chased me down fisherman's wharf yelling to me that I was rude to not give him money for taking his picture.)
As I was gone, I was not able to attend our city's annual Christmas party, sponsored by the chamber. Before I left, I donated 2 gift certificates and a "joke" clock as gifts for the exchange. One of the men instrumental in this affair came into the shop today to hand me BACK the stuff I had donated, telling me that there was not much interest due to a "hard year". Turn out was poor (around 70 compared to 250 last year), I suggested better P.R. next time.
Dave, if all of these folks are on the way out, how does this work for your business? Will you pick up some of that work? My guess is that some of these places needed the shake up and that when things turn around, they'll be back in the sign biz.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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Hey Dave. There's an old, but true axiom, that another's misfortune is sometimes one's opportunity. What you are witnessing is simply the economy "weeding out" the weak, so that the strong may survive. Your job is simply to not become numbered among the weak!
I once had an elderly Jewish man as a customer. He had been in business for some 45 years, and had survived with his business intact, through the Great Depression of the 30's. We talked once about his experiences during those tough times, and his advice to me was this: "When hard times come, your most important job is to do whatever you must in order to survive. When the hard times have past...and they will, you will be dealing with other business that are stronger. These are the kinds of customers that you want. The kind that can afford to spend money promoting their businesses, and that will pay your price, on time. This will also make your business stronger, healthier, and profitable. Your competitors who didn't survive, for whatever reason, won't be there to reap the rewards, or to undercut you as they may have done in the past."
So, as you bear witness to the demise of some of your competition, you have the choice of joining them, or resolving to be among the survivors. You do have some advantages...lower overhead, smaller staff, the ability to make any necessary changes more quickly than bigger companys. Use these, and you'll be around to supply the "Going out of Business" signs, as well as the "Grand Opening" signs for the new companys that will move into the former quarters of those who didn't survive.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2690 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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Hit the floor a runnin Dave...If everyone stands around talking about how bad it is..."it" surely will get bad.
Had your post said "Wow...things are looking good some shops are closing and leaving more opportunity for us to create a great clientele next year". I'd be willing to bet everyone answering would have said "You go Dave".
I think I'll say it anyway..."YOU GO DAVE"... Next year is gonna be a pip"
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
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My studio is in a town of about 50,000 people, while I live in a smaller town across the river of 15,000. During the past year three sign shops have either gone under or moved to another area.
2002 was the best year so far, with my gross receipts up 50% from last year. Actually, the number of jobs was down but the profits were up. During the past few months the phone has quit ringing, but there was a back log of work that has kept me busy. About six weeks ago my son started working with me full time, so the volume of work that goes out the door has increased. This also means that I can take on more of the "ordinary" signs that can be turned around quickly that before were recommended to others.
All of that to say this: while the ecomony is slowing in this area and half of the sign shops here have bit the dust, that only gives me more opportunities. The high end custom dimensional work still comes in and the shops that moved were not doing that type of work, so they were not my competition in the first place. They did do all types of vinyl, digital printing, and two were into electrical, which I don't touch. Someone will probably take their place. In the meantime, the work they gathered will be shared by the remaining shops. Hopefully, some will come my way.
I don't have a lot of patience with those who preach doom and gloom. For the most part, our lives are what we make them. "As a man thinketh, so is he". Sure, it make not all be a bed of roses for awhile, but the work will be there for those that want to do it. And I will be able to do what I love and have always dreamed of doing. No matter what happens, this sure beats working for a living.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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We are extremely diverse in the products that we offer but after seeing the posts concerning franchise shops, I can say this
as I have stated before, we sold wholesale to franchise shops for 6 years and have a real good working knowledge of their program...attitude and direction...and the way I see it, as I have stated in many previous posts is as folks like Raymond have said...we as a body of like minded sign and graphical artists are on the verge of a major coup where our work is concerned...
You have the franchise shops fighting for business with poor design...codes are stiffening to try to snip poor work in the butt and although we all suffer from the yahoos that are screwing our market up, we are gaining ground in the fight of quality work and educating the clientele of the possibilities of what we can provide to them. This wedge (as I have reffered to many times) is becoming wider and wider until one day, there will be such a distinction between US and THEM that it will be too funny!
We have had a stupendous year and have had to forgoe a nice extended x-mas due to work load...and why?...because of the wedge that we are starting to create here...(keeping in mind that we have been retail only 18 months)
I have been lambasted by several who think that the " letterhead" movement remain a loose spirit...and I agree to a point. That point stops when we as a collective body can say...I am a letterhead to our clients.
When a client comes in, I show them all of this weird stuff I work on and I immediately let them know that there are people like myself worldwide that go way beyond the dollar to be the best they can be....and they are called Letterheads. The look on their face is always astonishment...
Try it...the work will come!
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1033 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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I really like how Ken Henry puts it. I don't think it is so much that Dave is preaching doom and gloom as much as he is just expressing his concern. Why act like everything is peachy when it really isn't peachy everywhere?? When the going gets tough...the tough get going!!Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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We've ALL got to understand that our "thriving" economy is based on 2 things......paper money which is backed up by nothing, and the "credit card" situation. It's all phony money! THE PIPER WILL HAVE TO BE PAID, AND PROBABLY SOONER RATHER THAN LATER. I'm staying SMALL and keeping overhead to a bare minimum, which, in a way, makes me somewhat part of the money flow problem!
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there ya go mike.....and this i dont see it gettin better....i worked for a car dealership, the head honcho was rippin off the company....he would change bookkeeping and accountants bout every 6 months...didnt this kinda of stuff just happen in washington...geeeee...
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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MONTE J. ... once again you hit the nail where it hurts.... right smack on the head. Food for thought here. I once rented space next to a guy that did foundations and general construction.... every day I saw him he was whinnig and complaining about the competition.... he'd hang around the other contractors after hours and try to figure out how they managed better than he did. One morning I got to the shop and the ambulance was pulling away..... seems my buddie next door tried to hang himself with a set of chainfalls!... Yeah no kidding he had some other problems but ultimatly he was so wrapped up in do or die the stress was to much.
My old buddy Merele Glines told me many moons ago.... "when you concentrate on your competition.... your concentrating on the wrong business".
The guy who went for the easy out lived but became even more bitter.... a father of 3 little kids. That lousey poor me attitude and the sky is falling histeria is pointless.
I've forgotten how many times I've had to shift gears in a small New England town that suffers seasonal highs and lows.... but here I am a good 25 yrs. later doing what I love and a glass that is always full.
Hey Monte will you be going to Fred's in March??? Me and the Maine Squeeze are making plans for the trip.... She really wants me to make glue chipped glass popcorn wagon for her, seems like a good excuse to take on a new challenge and learn that product. Now I'm gonna go bump my last post before it's lost in last months archives!?!?....
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
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OLD PAINT, at least they hadn't closed down the government agencies, state parks etc, as the Clinton administration did or has that been lost in your memory bank?
Not all businesses are dying, but some who might have over extended their credit by buying higher priced machines and purchasing things that aren't necessarily needed in order to compete. Some of us actually hold our craft deep within our hearts and souls and make it through the hard times, as some call it. This is not a time to give up, as a matter of fact there isn't any time to give up, unless of course they never had it in their hearts to begin with.
Heck, even old wino joe is probably still out there!
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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Haha....Yew a fuNnY bOy Mikey.... But none of them will be as sweet as I.....I am busier than heck!!!
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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I'm new to the sign business and will admit that I only do this part time and don't have to depend on it for a living, but I did want to throw in my 2 cents worth. (That's probably more than it's worth). I have worked for myself most of my life and tried just about everything (most of it legal). I have met and dealt with several true professionals in different fields and they all told me one thing that I have found to be very true. " A true professional can make more money in hard times than any other time". Now's the time to use your experience, knowledge, and talents to show your professionalism. Step back and evaluate the situation and you will see oportunities that others will never know exist.
-------------------- Robert Richards Southern Ad Specialties Carrollton, GA 770-830-1501 sasga2000@a0l.com Posts: 138 | From: Carrollton, GA | Registered: Sep 2002
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I wouldn't let those closings get you worried. I think the sign business will stand up when times get rough economically. By that I mean, when my grandfather had his shop way back when, he had one or two guys working with him, but then came the great depression of the thirties, and guess what...then he had seven or eight men working. It's true that he probably felt sorry for some of the guys with families who were out of work, and I'm sure he hired when it wasn't absolutely necessary, but the point being...the work was there.
Part of what keeps me going when things slow down is the absolute faith that if they made it back in the depression days, then we should be able to make it now. That somehow by nature the sign business will always have work no matter how bad the economy is. And by the way, I see a bunch of people out spending money this Christmas, and I have work lined up for another month, so things look healthy around these parts.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Stephan...we will definitely be at Fred's (he's just 17 miles up the road.
If you come a day early we will be having a shop warming party at our new shop (thursday evening)we call it the "party before the party" and you are more than welcome. Let me know if you can make it and I'll send you the info you need to get here.
This will be the 4th year we've had the "party before the party" the last three were at the house.
We'll be watchin for ya!
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
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jeff my parents lived thru the depression ....and they were better off then...than we are now.....back then most people were self sificiant....most lived on or near farms.....no matter how bad the economy was....farmers always had food....and needed work done....most didnt have electricity or central heating. everyone had a wood stove and a kerosene lamp, the streams werent poluted and you didnt need a fishin or huntin lisence. yea times were tough then but people were tough....and not use to all the amenitites we have now.....bottom line the cost of living in 29-33 was non-existing....today we are so dependant on all these thing run by electric....and grocery stores...who here as a "root cellar" or even a "pantry"?
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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One of the first things i see when i read drapers orginal post here is how the majority of the shops that went out of buisness were either so creative,so talented or won ISA awards and the designers left etc. What more than likely happened is that those individuals couldn't or wouldn't take a backseat to their egos and develop more buisness skills. Their "pride" & "artistic integrity" wouldn't allow them to learn to sell,promote themselves,do certain types of work,or accept the fact you're not entitled to some arbitrary % of the buisness in your area just because you have an edge,a router,use vinyl,use paint only etc....yet this same pride will allow them to go from a situation where their hourly wage is between $50-$65/hr(from what i've read of shop rates here)to another job where they're making $10-$12 or thereabouts,or working for commission only. Having passion for the craft,willingness to learn new or old technology or any of those things have little to do with basic common sense and recognizing the oppurtunity you have and exploiting it instead of having someone else beat you to do then crying about it. I bet the guy who's now changing light bulbs is making more now by turning a few screws than he did b4 and he probably isn't unhappy about that. No matter what buisness you're in,sitting around waiting for it to simply come to you is a recipe for failure. And this is for Old Paint....is this root cellar you speak of one of the few places in north america we can actually see a live tofu? Or years form now are we gonna find out that it was just you running around in a tofu suit like the bigfoot guy?
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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I think Dave's post shows that he has class and a general concern for people. The way I read it, I can tell he feels bad for the other guys, hey nobody likes to see someone go down and laugh about it.
All feelings aside, business is business, and it's not like you're gonna be grave robbing, but if you get new customers out of all this, then it's good for your business. It's bad that people are going under, but someone's going to benefit from it, might as well be you.
That's just my dollar two ninety eight worth.
-------------------- Tony Broussard Graphic Details Digital Media Loreauville, LA Posts: 395 | From: Loreauville, LA | Registered: Jul 1999
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In this area, I see a lot of new faces showing up in the sign business. Some are experienced and some are not. Now...they will succeed or they won't. It is NOT up to the economy...it is up to each individual to be creative enough to bring money into thier business. We made a change in our thinking about 5 years ago. We decided to go strictly custom. I could see the folly of trying to compete in a saturated vinyl market. Now please remember....IT IS NEVER ABOUT JUST THE MONEY!!! It is about each persons belief about themselves and thier business. If you fail...don't be a victim and start blaming other shops or the economy...take responsibility for your actions. After all...we create our reality...we are the ones that make our businesses succeed or fail.
About 9 years ago, another sign guy named Paco and I started a sign guild. We now have 15 members. Our first premise is to work together. Set aside the idea of competing and use each other as a part of our business..now..ALL of our members are doing well. There are 2 shops here that will not join and refuse to work together...one is failing and the other one is losing business everyday. They come from an belief in lack...so that is exactly what they create.
Now...if you go around everyday with the fear that the economy is is bad shape...then it will be in bad shape...for you. But..if you believe in abundance...then the Universe will provide abundance. It is a simple Universal law. What ever you believe..will manifest. "I think...therefore I am!"
Have a very merry Winter Solstice...and a wonderful new year.
[ December 19, 2002, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Jackson Smart ]
-------------------- Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun" Posts: 1004 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
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