posted
...to call yourself a "designer", apparently, is a Mac and a business card. Or so it seems, if the so-called designers I get to deal with are any indication. My latest venture into this land of can't understand normal thinking was a job from a beauty salon (surprise !) to change copy and logo on a set of signs - the third time in five years this salon has changed hands. I was directed to this "designer" for a logo, which came in the form of a CD. My specific request was a vector file, eps format, for a PC platform. What I got, on the CD and in several subsequent e-mail files, were corrupted ai files that would not open in Illustrator 8, Corel 9, or Omega. That and a crabby voice insisting that "professional" designers ALL work on Macs, and how could I possible hope to do anything with a PC anyway? My patience with kitchen-table-housewife-designers is limited at best, and I will leave my response to your imagination. The goddess finally condescended to sending me an eps file, which worked. Her response, on being told that I now had a functional file, was "I'll be a sonovabitch" (hey, she was half right...) I'm the first to admit, I'm not a computer guru, but I do know people who are... and the files didn't work on their systems, either. So maybe I'm not quite as stupid as I look.
I sent Bob Rochon the files, and he says he'll post the design for me, so we can all bask in the glory of "professional" graphic design. Bob?
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Oh man this is a truly funny story, I was still laughing about it last night after supper.
These were her words as forwarded to me.
quote:"...you're going to find that most professional designers are working in Mac..."
and let's not forget the final....
quote: "Well, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with you recreating my design..."
and here is the design that is so precious that a PC guy might not be capable of reproducing.
Now before too many mac users get their panties in a wad, this is not aimed at mac users but narrow minded unskilled people that think they are better just because of their tools not their talent.
[ December 17, 2002, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Truly the signs of the times. The computers have made "experts" out of everyone it seems. Stupidity also runs in the reverse direction. A few years back I designed a logo for a contractor. They were getting tired of all there trucks looking different and wanted something consistant. I sold them on a logo design, they were thrilled to learn they could use it on their invoices and all their stationary. I gave them a disc with the file in an eps and an ai format. I got a call from the customer a few months later saying the printer couldn't work with the file. I finally was called by the printer who was obviously totally new to printing and computers and had no idea what she was doing. She said the file was too big for her program to open. It was a simple gray scale. She said her program could only work with a BMP! I called the customer and suggested she hunt down another printing source. This one didn't have a clue. I've also dealt with my share of clueless designers. My favorite was a design for a trucking company. The company name was Circle Trucking Company. I guess the owners wanted the name incorporated into a circle. The "designer" obviously couldn't figure that one out so they ended up with the name on one line, inside a true oval.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Cam, a couple of years ago I went to a small motorcycle show and there was a booth selling Beugler stripers. The fellow was explaining to his audience that motorcycles at the show were striped with the Beugler. He had a copy of what looked like a Signwriter's guide. These were the prices the Beugler buyer could expect to receive for pinstriping. You would think that potential buyers would walk over to the bikes and ask an owner how it really goes, but apparently not. One more example of "Barnum was right" Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Omigod, Wayne, you aren't actually suggesting I tamper with a logo produced by a "professional graphic designer"?
Frankly I don't give a fat schitt what it looks like. It's not the worst thing I've seen sold to a hairdresser by someone with a mac and the ballz to call herself a designer. I'm just the hack who has to put it outdoors and expect it to last more than a week.
BTW the colors specified are a "light cranberry" background, which in the ugly stupid real world, the one where it's cold and wet and people get their hands dirty, means carmine. The sign gets full southern exposure sun. I'm betting the business changes hands again before the pigment fails, but either way I'm cashing the check first.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Current job; 1.- Logo is provided on a mac zip disk, after I specifically, and repeatedly informed designer that I was pc based.
2.- Three separate emails, five files total, none of which will open or import into Illustrator, CorelDraw, GA, or PS6. ("oh, yes, I can provide it in any format that you need, oh, and, what's vector-based?")
3.- Finally, I'm reduced to asking, through clenched teeth, for HARD COPY. (don't even ask if it's camera ready)
Fuggit, time to dust off the projector...
btw, The reason that I'm posting at this ungawdly time of day is that i just got home from jury duty. No wonder I'm in such a great mood!
-------------------- Steve Purcell Purcell Woodcarving & Signmaking Cape Cod, MA
************************** Intelligent Design Is No Accident Posts: 900 | From: Cape Cod, MA | Registered: Oct 1999
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HAHAHAHA! I love it Cam! Couldn't have said it better! Now sit in her chair and demand a haircut and waste about 2 hours makin' her "Get it right"....Then finally get up out of the chair and say.."Well, I could have gotten a better haircut from ----'s counrty barber down the street, would'nt have cost have as much either....oh well, I'll have to wear this hat til it grows back!
-------------------- Mike Meyer Sign Painter 189 1st Ave n P.O. Box 3 Mazeppa, Mn 55956
We are not selling, we are staying here in Mazeppa....we cannot re-create what we have here....not in another lifetime! SO Here we are!!!!!!!
posted
About a year ago the city re-named thier liquor store. They hired a Promotions(?!) company here in town to do the signs. (I didn't find this out till the signs were up). When I approached the city council about this BS, they said they didn't know I was in town. (Gee, didn't I do election signs for 2 of the city council members?)
ANYWAY, I went to the Promotions company here in town to introduce myself, and got a little jerked at thier attitude,(yuppie scum), and asked them, who designed the signs, (red letters on black shadows on white backgrounds, just lovely), then I proceeded to tell them that whenever I see red on black, its the sure sign of an ametuer. I found out later that I was talking to the guy that designed the signs! GOOD! If I would have known that before hand, I probably would'nt have said anything.
I'm still p**sed bout this a year later, the whole job cost the city 23K, PLUS, (yer gonna dig this), 4 THOUSAND bux to the promotions company for "consulting and design fees"!
Hey- Merry Christmas everybody!
[ December 18, 2002, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Steve Barba ]
-------------------- "B0LT" on the chat room thing.
posted
Mike, it wasn't the hairdresser who can't understand normal thinking, but her designer with the "home office", where these masterpieces are cooked up. The actual customer - the hairdresser - seems to be decent enough. So far. We'll see what happens when I show up later today with the signs (and the bill!)
Stay tuned!
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
i see it has creeped up heeea in the north country too....don't you know???...everyone's a designer...have mac(and kitchen table) will travel to bank laughing...and don't f**k with my design man...i don't think i can trust you to recreate my glorious masterpiece...gimme a king kong break the size of china. i can't believe what some people label themselves, obviously legends in their own minds.
we have "designers" here that bone people for $700-$900 for a logo uglier than a bucket of a s s holes, hold it hostage and don't have a clue about the word "vectorized" to boot.
i hear ya dude!
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I've been trying to receive an email with the design for a logo for quite a while from a customer with (students creating the artwork because they're cheaper than professionals...) I finally meet with the guy and he gives me a disk. It takes about 5 min to open up on my machine & looks like crap. I look at the file size and it is over 165 MB - Doh! I recreate it in corel with a size of 40-50K hmmmmm... No wonder is wouldn't come on email. Designers - I hear ya.
-------------------- Brian Diver PDQ Signs Everett, Wa
posted
speaking of logo designs....have any of ya seen the LOGO design section on EBAY? its down a ways...on the 1st page you need to open PROFESSIONAL SERVICES....then look for logo design.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
This is a topic that makes me laugh I deal with these schmuks all the time too. However, I charge accordingly Our company provides graphic specs to all our clients, free of charge. Digital Specs If there's a simple fix to get a file to be output ready, we don't charge. If additional work is needed, we charge $65 an hour for vector editing and $125 an hour for raster based work. The part that really bothers me is the fact that some of you see these so called "designers" charging a rediculous sum of money for their time and getting away with it. Yet, you complain, but still don't charge accordingly for your time and knowledge. This is not directed towards anyone or meant to be a slam. It's just that I feel there's still a lot of great sign "designers" that say "I can't charge that much for my work" without even trying.
Havin' fun, Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Ive got this guy in town, nice guy, but a little eccentric. He and some of his buddies have started a 4 wheeler club. Big a** trucks four wheelers. He wants some decals made.In color, so itll be edge prints from my buddy Ken Scott. Keeps bringing me stuff he made in his "graphics program". Turns out, he is on an old pc running windows 3.1. I told him why not let me design something for you? Nope, I like what I have here, but my color printer aint working, so maybe you could come up to my house and look at the monitor so you can see what colors I want. I just about p**ped on myself on that one. I ended up telling him to bring the stuff back to me on a pc floopy in bmp or tiff format and we would go from there. After, of course I told him it would be 75 dollars to go to his house and look at the colors on his monitor. Im still horse laughing about that one.
[ December 18, 2002, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: John Deaton III ]
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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And from the "More Mac Designer Gall" section, this doozy: I was asked to do a cover design for an advertising supplement to be printed by the local newspaper for the annual Christmas Parade, based on some signs I had made for the same event.(Gratis, of course) Thinking it might be good for self-promotion, and maybe a little ego-stroke, I agreed to a very tight deadline and had the art burned on a CD in several formats and hand-delivered the next morning. When the "head designer" popped it in her Mac, she smirked and in her most condescending voice told me, "REAL designers use a Mac". In hindsight, I should have snatched the disc and replied, "REAL newspapers pay for art" and let her grapple with the deadline on her own.
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4116 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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When faced with this level of creativity, you sometimes have to put yourself in the place of the designer to understand why they thought the design was "perfect". And why they designed it just that way...
(Imagining sitting at her kitchen table, working on her Mac, while decaf espresso is being made on the Krupps Espresso-Latte-thingamajiggy and diet struedel toaster poptards melt away in the toaster)
"Hmmm, let's see... this is a women's hair salon, so we need a very thin, waif-like typeface to emulate all the supermodels this place is going to attract.
Some of them are going to be housewives though, and some of them might be pregnant, so let's use this lower case "b" since it looks like it's gonna drop a baby "b" any minute now... it'll make the moms-to-be feel welcome.
OK now we need something that will make her customers feel like they'll look like movie stars after going to this place... these lower case "ss" sure look like Shirley Temple curls to me...
Now to make sure everyone knows exactly what "bliss" is, (we don't want guys walking in for "massages") we have to put in "a hair salon" but let's overly space out the letters to indicate the cloud-like dreamy state of mind the customers leave with.
Oh and we have to separate these "designs" with something, so let's include the coolest graphical idea since reverse text in a rectangle, or text placed on a 45 degree angle. The SWASH! That's IT!!!
PERFECT!"
Really, I think what most of these kitchen table designers excel at is selling. The bullship that goes along with "design work" like this must be of the highest caliber or else the emperor's new clothes are seen for what they really are.
-------------------- EmpY Mayo Pardo #138 South Elgin, IL. Posts: 436 | From: South Elgin, IL | Registered: Nov 1998
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Empy, I love it! You may well have analyzed the entire kitchen-table-housewife design process. My only possible objection would be that the process that you describe requires way to much actual thinking, and not enough of that ephemeral, indescribable intuitive emotional connection that makes this design "feel" right.
At the risk of sounding like a total misogynist, I can't help thinking of Jack Nicholson in the film "As Good As It Gets"; when the young woman asks him how he writes women so well, he says,"I think of a man, and take away reason and accountability."
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Just ONE more reason the customer"has" to come to my Shop. I have (Home court advantage) They can see my work They bring black and white art work with them THEN................we can talk. Don't think I have LOST a customer YET!
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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!) to change copy and logo on a set of signs - the third time in five years this salon has changed hands. I was directed to this "designer" for a logo, which came in the form of a CD. My specific request was a vector file, eps format, for a PC platform. What I got, on the CD and in several subsequent e-mail files, were corrupted ai files that would not open in Illustrator 8, Corel 9, or Omega. That and a crabby voice insisting that "professional" designers ALL work on Macs, and how could I possible hope to do anything with a PC anyway? My patience with kitchen-table-housewife-designers is limited at best, and I will leave my response to your imagination. The goddess finally condescended to sending me an eps file, which worked. Her response, on being told that I now had a functional file, was "I'll be a sonovabitch" (hey, she was half right...) I'm the first to admit, I'm not a computer guru, but I do know people who are... and the files didn't work on their systems, either. So maybe I'm not quite as stupid as I look.
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