posted
i'm doing a small project, sort of similar to a pair of truck doors (excepts its a custom fiberglass trailer box). i've got a custom mixed 1-shot paint color (mixed for the other work for the same customer) that i want to use, but i don't want to have to paint the fiberglas box. So i was thinking i'd spray the 1-shot onto some HP white vinyl and apply it that way. (Using Ti-cote as a primer, first, of course).
So my question is: will it last? Will the 1-shot be too brittle when i'm applying the vinyl to the radiused corners of the box?
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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Scooter, the paint will outlast the vinyl. If you are using 2 yr intermediate, 5 yr or 7 yr HP..... that is all you need to worry about. The lifespan of the vinyl, not the paint. Of course, the reds and blues will fade rapidly without a clearcoat of somekind. No matter what they are painted on. As for the brittleness of the paint, it depends on the sharpness of the corners. I would suggest clearcoating after application to lock everything in place.
[ December 16, 2002, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: John Smith ]
-------------------- John Smith Kings Bay Signs (Retired) Kissimmee, Florida Posts: 816 | From: Central Florida - The Sunshine State | Registered: Jan 2000
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What's the aprox. drying time before being able to apply to the vehicle? prime, paint clear, 4-5 hrs., overnight?
Who supplies the ti-cote, can't find it around these parts. Can't find the good stabilos for writing on metal, glass, etc... either. The dog ate the only one I had, honest.
Thanks.
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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Alan, Ti-cote is a Chromatic product. Now the same company as One Shot and Spraylat. Any one-shot or Chromatic dealer should be able to get it for you. It's purpose is to be a barrier coat so that plasticizers (oil components of the vinyl)won't migrate out of the vinyl into the paint, giving the feeling that the paint will never dry. If you have enamel receptive vinyl, banner material or plotter material, it has already been coated with a product similar to Ti-cote. In other words, It's good to go as is.
Good Luck,
Joe
-------------------- Joe House Denco Sales Co. 2119 SE 11th Ave Portland OR 97214 800-345-0172 Posts: 20 | From: Portland OR | Registered: Jul 2002
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Alan, if you use screenprinting ink airbrushed onto vinyl, you're only looking at a 10 minute spray-to-application time. Less fuss, no muss, a bit more stink but a better result especially for vehicle graphics.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I like Nazdar's GV (gloss vinyl) Series inks. They dry glossy enough for most applications but you can add a clearcoat for harsh environments or jobs that require a higher gloss.
You can use any clear you like really, but clear UV screen inks and automotive clears will always give you the best results.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I was using some createx and it was working out ok.(do I hear people groaning?) The colors came out fantastic and most of all the customer was very pleased, but...
This stuff isn't going to fall off in a year is it? I would rather be up front and do the painted parts over with inks or enamels now than have him calling me because of a problem later.
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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Alan, Although I'm experimenting with the screen ink myself, I've got three large graphics on three company trailors as well as three of there Junior Dragsters that were all done with Createx Auto Air, and an automotive rattle can clear coat that I got from AutoZone...and they've held up just great now for almost three years without any signs of faiding or delaminating. Robin
-------------------- Robin Sharrard Sharrard Graphics & Sign Fallon, Nevada rds@phonewave.net "Proud $$$ Supporter" Posts: 282 | From: Fallon, Nevda, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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That's good to hear Robin, thanks. I haven't been painting long enough to see what happens over time. Been using F-Juice to clear. So far, so good.
A few comments the last past few days have really tickled the funny bone, in a good way.
Can't remember the man's name but he mentioned his Wall Murals lasting 20 years because of using quality materials (One Shot on brick wall). It sure makes sense to toss in a few extra bucks and some time to use the best quality possible.
Please understand this is coming from a shop that doesn't have the massive overhead as some of the bigger shops. But I think that quality counts. There have been countless times I've picked up customers (no hawking) because someone else used inferior materials, p's people off.
What I'm getting at is I don't want to lose paint customers in the same manner. Gotta treat em' right and keep them coming back.
Thanks for all of the help, this is gonna be fuuuuun!
peace
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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I have a 14 oz banner hand lettered with vinyl ink...it is 8 years old and shows no fading...colors are as vivid as the day they went on...the banner was over our front door with a southern exposure at the old shop...it'll be a wall display at the new shop.
Use all the miracle cures for enaamel or water born paints you want...I'm with Mike Pipes on this one "Vinyl on vinyl". It'll never let you down or turn on you when you least expect it.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
Alan, try it out for yourself. Give Nazdar a call and they will be more than happy to send you a free sample of the ink, and if you want to try it out you can even ask for some of the thinner/reducer they recommend, although lacquer thinner works fine.
Like Monte said, it will NOT let you down. I haven't been able to damage the ink without destroying the vinyl underneath it.. pressure washers.. the running surface on jetski hulls.. scraping with fingernails, metal tools, etc.. nothing hurts it (except of course, harsh chemical baths like acetone)
I don't have to waste time with cleaning vinyl, scuffing vinyl, cleaning again, ti-cote, color coat, clearcoat.. and then the dreaded fear of it still coming up off the vinyl when you remove the transfer tape and wondering if it's going to fade prematurely.
I wipe the vinyl with denatured alcohol or Rapid Prep (depending which one is easier to reach - hahaha), and it's ready for ink. That's it, there's nothing else to it.
The ink is no more expensive than One Shot or Createx either, something like $1 per ounce? Less than that in some cases depending on color, so there's no real reason not to use it. Plus it has to be thinned cause it's too thick to use from the can, so you actually get more usable ink, reducing the cost even further.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Just sent my registration fax to them 3 minutes ago. Glad to have read this before I made that follow up call. I will definitely ask about the reducers and a possible free sample.
According to you and Monte the stuff is thick, enough to brush/outline without a flood?
How are you making out with this stuff Robin?
Excuse me if I missed this somewhere but can this go on all vinyl or just e-receptive?
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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Yep, the ink works on most vinyls, the only films I havent tried it on is the chrome and holographic.
I normally use lacquer thinner to clean the ink from my airbrushes, acetone does the trick too although depending on your airbrush, you might go through lots of seals. I use Paasche VL's which dont have any parts that are affected by the solvents, just one rubber seal in the air valve which never touches solvent as long as you don't drop the gun in a solvent bath.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I don't know how anyone can stand to work with vinyl ink. That is at the top of the list of raunchy, vile, and nasty stuff for me. Everytime I smell that stuff I get an instant headache. That vinyl cloride has got to be bad for you, and before anyone says "well ya gotta have adequate ventilation", my response is ,I haven't seen a shop yet that had adequate ventilation for that stuff. And I don't have problems with any other thinner . You need to be OUTSIDE on a windy day when you use that stuff !!
Other than that, it works great.......
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Nobody said it smelled good...be sure your vented (better a fan pulling air from you rather than blowing on you).
The thinners are good but have a tendancy to retard.
I have found over the years of using it that lacquer thinner works the best when brushing it. about 60/40 mix (paint to thinner)works best(adjust to suit you).
Note: be carefull when cleaning your brush DO NOT use lacquer thinner (it will fester residue in the heel and cause a disfiguring knot right at the ferrule)...use the vinyl thinner /retarder to clean the brush (it will dissolve all leftover ink) then immediately wash it out with mineral spirits and oil for storage.
I've been using this cleaning process for years and never lost a brush (I even use them back and forth from enamels) Works great!
"Werks fer me ...it'll werk fer you"
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
I wear a respirator when I spray the inks, I also gang up all my airbrush jobs into one day so the smell has time to clear out. It usually doesnt last more than a day or two, unless I accidentally leave a container of ink open.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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This morning i tried a test piece using vinyl ink (not reduced)on chrome. I let it sit for 1hr and the result was i could scrape it off with my fingernail.
Halographic film the ink bit into that just fine, no problems.
These were just my tests, I would try for yoursef.
[ December 19, 2002, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Robert Carney ]
-------------------- Robert Carney Fergus, Ontario Posts: 131 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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Most of the "chromes" are not vinyl but mylar or something similar, a lot of the holographic stuff is in the same boat, testing would be highly recommended. I've used HOK candies over the chrome with good success before.
I'm with Mike and Monte though on the vinyl ink is the only thing to use on vinyl. I also agree with Jeff in that it is the most vile stuff going. I learned over the years if I am goint to use it, do it late in the day ( so you don't have to smell it all day ) throw away ( this means outside ) anything that comes in contact with the stuff, the cup you mix it up in, the cup the thinner is in, the rag you used to wipe the brush with, anything. I scoop the paint out with a knife so non gets on the edge of the can, the knife gets wiped clean with the rag that gets thrown away. The smell the next day is negligable. Leave that rag in the shop and it stinks for a week
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Fresh air is always a plus... Not a big fan of laying on concrete floors without drinking first. hehe
Been using the Iwata Eclipse, I like it. Can't remember if there are exposed seals anywhere though. Sounds like it gets the same love and care as the hand brushes. Never even thought about oiling it.
Definitely going to try the recomendations and I won't be sastisfied until we get professional results. Thanks everyone for helping to "raise the standard". (prices to follow)
Hey Robert- You going to Quebec next Aug.?
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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Less fuss, no muss, a bit more stink but a better result especially for vehicle graphics. 
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