Yes, as the subject says, I have done a 4'x8' MDO with my usual Enamel paint background (the only difference being, this time the background was black) and 2 weeks later, have the sign back in my shop due to the letters literally falling off the sign! Any thoughts, remedies or obvious reasons why this would happen and how to prevent it from happening again? I would LUV to hear about, believe me.
As of this momment, I am stumped as to what went wrong. My vinyl supplier swears that it is not the vinyl, but a paint/substrate issue. I am convinced of nothing yet. I would appreciate any help offered.
Thanx
Ivan Allan Eye Signs Saskatchewan, Canada
-------------------- Ivan Allan Eye Signs SK Canada
"One's first step in wisdom is to question everything" Posts: 102 | From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Hiya Ivan, I gotta ask the obvious because I may have had similar problems before. Is the vinyl delaminating from the adheasive and the adheasive is staying on the sign or is everything coming off the sign cleanly? What brand of paint did you use? What brand of vinyl did you use? How cold was the substrate when you applied the lettering?
Havin' fun, Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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The vinyl is Avery, the substrate was about 65 degrees at the time. The paint was a well know Canadian brand. Good all purpose Enamel, I have never had problems with it before anyway.
And, the vinyl is coming off clean.
thanks again, if you have any ideas on how the substrate should be prepped, I am all ears!
Ivan
-------------------- Ivan Allan Eye Signs SK Canada
"One's first step in wisdom is to question everything" Posts: 102 | From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Hmmm, Judging by your response, I would lean towards a paint issue too. I'm assuming that you're using a gloss enamel. It's possible that the paint company has changed it's formula. I don't recall if I read it here or in one of the mags, but some paint mfgrs. are adding chemicals to their paints to keep dirt from sticking to it, maybe this is the problem. Did you try to apply the vinyl to another substrate? If not, try it and see if it holds better on prefinished aluminum or something. If it doesn't hold well on a different surface, then it's definitely the vinyl and there's a few reasons why that could happen - bad adheasive mix, too much silicon on the release liner, etc. Let me know how you make out.
Havin' fun, Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Avery says their vinyl only has a one year shelf life. I had Avery reflective that delaminated, leaving the adhesive on the panel and the vinyl blowing in the wind. I have had their high performance cast vinyl blow off of enamel coated MDO before I got to the jobsite. I quit using Avery vinyls because I had too many expensive problems like this.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5101 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have had Avery Reflective "fall off" of police cars. I did solve the problem. Use nothing but 3M Scotchlite Reflective!
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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Ivan, I have had this problem too. And it was avery white reflective over black enameled mdo(but have had similar problem with other color b/g paint). But it wasn't the paint in my case, it was the vinyl. Mistakenly, the lettering got cut from avery f1500 reflective instead of xr1000, which is what I meant to use(xr1000-grey logo on release liner backside, and f1500-green logo on backside). The f1500 is for sheeting full backgrounds and doesnt like it when cut into graphics or lettering. I have had absolutely no problems with avery xr1000 engineer grade reflective on any cut graphics and lettering.
[ December 11, 2002, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Tim ]
-------------------- Tim Rieck Signs Halfmoon Bay, BC Posts: 736 | From: Halfmoon Bay, BC, Canada | Registered: Sep 2000
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sometimes the paint dries on the surface but not underneath so it takes longer to really dry out and things dont properly stick, when the paints too fresh and or the weather is cold i try using an exterior varnish just round the very edge of the graphics .s.louth
posted
Spend the extra money for 3m reflective and you'll never have another problem.
They did after all invent the stuff.
Too expensive? More than doing it twice?
We use nothing but high performance vinyls and 3m products and have never had any kind of failure...I'm the first to admit my return customers are long times between visits but the profits are better due to quality products.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
I haven't used the Avery vinyl yet, I also agree on the 3M are very good vinyl too... But I have been using the FDC Graphic Films, from www.signsplusbanners.com, I never had any problem this these reflective... I just did a job in August with FDC reflective on a aluminium sign, and I just recently saw it two days ago. Its still a good shape... It might be the paint.. I have done a job before and has a gloss in the paint, the vinyl came off like not even sticky anymore... No paint came off behind the vinyl... So, I did the job again, even though it was our first sign we did too. I changed the paint and put on the lettering again... Its lasting long time now... Been over a year now...
-------------------- Jaime Doyle Doyle Sign & Web Design RR1 Box 351-C Grampian, PA Posts: 79 | From: Grampian, PA | Registered: Oct 2001
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![[Mad]](mad.gif)
No paint came off behind the vinyl... So, I did the job again, even though it was our first sign we did too. I changed the paint and put on the lettering again... Its lasting long time now... Been over a year now... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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