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This week, our town took an aggressive stance on "off premisis advertising" and has pulled up all of the yard size (20/28 or 18/24) signs around town. This type of sign is not our mainstay- but we do plenty of these 'for sale by owner signs' and the like. I WONDER if this is the norm or if this is out of the ordinary. Are these type of signs allowed - or not, in your community? (i.e.: real estate signs with arrows directing passer-by to property for sale). Depending on the results here- we may take it up with the town board on behalf of our consumers... THANKS in advance! / Mark
-------------------- Signs of Life "Signs You See Everyday" Estes Park, Colorado www.signsoflife.net Posts: 70 | From: Estes Park, Colorado - US | Registered: Nov 1998
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Off premise signage is restricted in alot of communities. This is a result of the Lady Bird Johnson campaign to beautify America during the Johnson administration. In an effort to remove billboards off the highways they had to come up with a legal balance and jargon that would include all the billboards. In effect these little yard and "off premise" real estate signs had to be included so the laws that were written to rid the highways of billboard clutter were inforced across the board. If they are not included then the laws would not be inforced fairly and unbiased, thus making any effort to exclude billboard type signs unconstitutional.In order to exclude one type of signage you have to include both.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Nope ...haven't run into anything that crazy yet!
Would like to see how well the city council hold up to your local real estate board...keep us informed.
I really gotta say it..."thats the dumbest thing I've heard in a while"...where do they think their revenue comes from (have they heard of property taxes)
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
We adopted a plan where these type of signs are only allowed to be placed on Friday's and be removed by Sunday evening.
I stand by my decision to vote for this ordinance (I serve as VC) because of the phenomenal overload of those signs in this area and the real problem they were posing...litter wise as well as the visual noise and folks like myself (that has reservations in Estes Park for a New Years Party this year) love the quaint feel about going to your town for exactly that reason!
[ December 03, 2002, 05:31 AM: Message edited by: Robert Beverly ]
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1033 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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I think that it's reasonable to control the proliferation of 18x24's that are on public rights-of-way, if they aren't actually on the property that is for sale.
An outright ban might be the only way that they could curb the abuse, short of creating a full-time position just to monitor it.
-------------------- Steve Purcell Purcell Woodcarving & Signmaking Cape Cod, MA
Instagram: Purcell Woodcraft
************************** Intelligent Design Is No Accident Posts: 902 | From: Cape Cod, MA | Registered: Oct 1999
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Don't the pols. who passed this realize they are the problem. The eye litter isn't caused by a sign in front of a house or two per neighborhood. It's them damn political signs every ten feet along the road. They probably din't feel this way last month. Of course now that they are in office they don't need them any more but let's see how the feel about it in a couple years. Typical ... create a problem ... create a fix ... screw everybody else.
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Mark, here in Lafayette (down the road from ya!) it is illegal too. One good thing tho, once a month I get to recycle those signs the code enforcement people can't give back!
-------------------- Eric Patzer A.S.A.P. Design Lafayette, CO epatzer@earthlink.net Posts: 208 | From: Lafayette, CO USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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In our area it is the same as Robert Beverly. They go up Friday after 5:00pm and are down before Monday morning. You can almost set your watch to the real estate people setting out their signs.
You have to admit, they look like crap all over the place.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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The heart of the problem is, the realtors want both the cheapest and most visible sign they can put on the street. It is also a source of advertising for them, so many feel they have to have their picture also. So, in a situation where just one sign would indicate homes for sale, there are six or seven, and the clutter is not attractive.
The upscale communities near here control it a different way. The signs are a muted dark color (such as Burgundy or Forest Green), uniform in size, color, text, font, and point size, with Open House and an arrow in a contrasting color, usually white or cream. The realty company's name is allowed in 1" letters at the bottom, mainly to keep realtors from stealing each other's signs. Only one open house sign is allowed at an intersection. Any non conforming sign gets confiscated without return.
The Realtors complain about it, but it cleans up the clutter, and gets the job done.
Realtors are not voters but homeowners are. If the homeowners complain to elected governmentloud enough, government will back off to some degree. The realtors in turn have to be proactive in agreeing on an attractive standard sign and offering it as their proposed solution.
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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There are some Supreme court rulings, which I can't at the moment remember, that define off premise. If the sign is on the property which is for sale, it is not off premise, even though it lists the agent to contact. Zoning codes can limit the size and location for health, safety and the general welfare but an outright ban is on shakey footing. Limiting what is said on the sign is also a violation of the 1st and 14th ammendments. The Lanham act also comes into play for posting logos and the like. Downriver here from you but still on Hwy 34, realtors cannot place signs at the corners etc. directing prospects to open houses and the like but the sign on premise is allowed as long as it does not excede the 6 sq.ft. allowed in residential areas. Commercial restrictions are 32 sq.ft.
I would suggest contacting ISA government relations for ideas (signs.org) although I am the Colorado representative for the committee and may therefore get the referral. I will bring this issue up at the next meeting in Vegas in April.
[ December 03, 2002, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Kent Smith ]
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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I also question the legality of calling a for sale sign off premise when it's on the property being sold. I would however say that in this day and age, there are far more effective means of marketing a property than with a sign. I don't think they enhance the feeling of community for the others that live nearby and are not selling.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6830 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I haven't changed my opinion on this...our city has a code that covers real estate signs it is very restrictive and it is complied with...all signs (residential ) are required to be 6 square feet or less and only one is allowed per property.
Incidently real estate signs are the only signs allowed to go up with out a permit.
There are other requirements for commercial and industrial all within reason and for the most part I can say there are no clutter problems with any of them.
Political signs are another story...if the city nummies had any guts at all they would restrict the use of them...but they know they'd loose (1st amendment rights and all)
Interesting how and what gets restricted...makes you wonder who decides who gets right and who doesn't.
Oh and Timi is right about Lady Bird...in my opinion she is soley responsible for the loss of "production shops" loss of apprenticeships and a general destruction of the sign industry as I once remember it, turning it instead into the cottage industry it is rapidly becoming.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
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Hey is this America or Indonesia? I feel like I should be able to place whatever type of sign I want to on my own property - - far as sign clutter goes - on public right of ways they are mostly illegal - pull them at will - - signs on private property are another matter entirely. Dunno, maybe I got a "Freedom of Speech" complex....just hope I don't catch anybody pulling any of my signs >>>?>>>!>>>?>>>!
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1393 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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Thank you for your input.. Some follow up: The signs that have been outlawed are the ones not on the property itself, but those at the corners directing passer by to the house for sale.. A couple of realtors I have spoken with are relieved that the law is being enforced- they will save thousands in that type of sign "If the other guys can't do it, we don't have to". As for posting signs from Friday thru Sunday, it's already happening- with (illegal) banners- I would assume it will with this type of sign, too- open houses and the like. /Mark
-------------------- Signs of Life "Signs You See Everyday" Estes Park, Colorado www.signsoflife.net Posts: 70 | From: Estes Park, Colorado - US | Registered: Nov 1998
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