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1st of all, I know that rapid tac is better. Not using it. Used soap and water for years. Palmolive primarily over the last two years. Not sure if it something to do with the climate of what but, the stuff won't allow the vinyl to stick all of a sudden. We're talkin' half hour or so for the graphic to get used to it's substrate.
For you soap users out there.....what's the brand of choice???
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Corey....I do most of my stuff dry, but have heard that a drop or two of alcohol helps too, if for some reason you can't use Rapid Tac.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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well you want to experiment....try WINDEX NO DRIP....i know i know....RT IS THE RIGHT STUFF....but before i tryed RT i used the windex...and it works...as for all the reason not to use it....i know that to...but most i used it on didnt stay for more then a year...
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yes Roger still reads these boards. HaHa....
Corey, just out of curiosity, if you realize that Rapid Tac products are superior to soap and water solutions, then why would you still choose soap & water as your application fluid? This isn't a "use our products or else" post, but your post defintly makes us wonder what your motivation is. If price is your concern, then think about this. If one installation goes wrong, the cost involved would have likely paid for at least one gallon of Rapid Tac Application Fluid. If it takes you an hour a month find a container, mix your solution, etc.. you could have ordered a gallon of Rapid Tac Application Fluid, and used the remaining 45 minutes of that hour to make money designing, or constructing a sign for a customer. An hour sounds like alot of time, until you think about 60 minutes split up over teh course of a month. It's very easy to burn an hour of time experimenting and creating a soap and water mixture alone, not taking into consideration the additional time it can take to actually complete an application with a soap and water mixture.
Please, choose what you're most comfortable with, but we know Rapd Tac can and will pay for itself in your business. Better wet applications, less time wasted, and more happy customers.
-------------------- Jeff Bailey Rapid Tac Inc. Grants Pass, Oregon Posts: 231 | From: Grants Pass, Oregon, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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A sample kit of all of RapidTac's quite fantastic products will be shipped to you today -- assuming that you will indeed give them a whirl.
Please post here or drop me a line to let me know where to send the sample pack.
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Ok, Yes I am familiar with rapid tac....great stuff. My employer would use 5 gallons a day. Soap and water takes and has taken 30 seconds to mix a couple of litres at a time. I as well as many, use water with soap and, although there asre many that are deadset against it, Ive9we've) never had a problem. Much bigger probs out there like heat, cold, hail, snow. Never had a call back. Jon, I would love a sample kit of RT...for my personal bus. I love R remover and always have a jug lying around.(not that i have to remove anything ever and do it a second time) Windex?? I had my trusty soap water mix and also a bottle of windex with me to preclean a van once. Accidentally used windex to spray my vinyl.DO OVER. Talk about not working.
Jon, if youd like to send me a sample kit my address is:
Her in Norway I use a dish washer prep. called "Zalo", but due to my alergic reactions I cant use it longer...so I now use Window Juice and Splash...but 90% is dry.
-------------------- Per Arne Tonnessen TSD POB 1739 STOA N-4857 Arendal Norway Posts: 15 | From: Norway | Registered: Oct 2002
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I'll have the sample kit delivered via the nearest ND GRAPHICS branch...are you closer to Edmonton or Calgary?
PS
I'll leave it to the experts to answer your flexface application question...(is there a Bailey in the house?)
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Thanks! Calgary branch is closest (about 25km) Make it to the attn of Brad Taylor who works there. He's the fist person I met upon my move to Calgary from California 4 1/2 yrs. ago.
Still haven't heard from the soap users out there. I know you're out there. The RT'rs won't bite...what are you afraid of?
Come-on...there's no IVORY SOAP backers out there? What's the best soap?
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Corey ; I used it before rt and i used Sunlite dish soap.This has a grease cutter in it.Sounds to me like you may have put to much soap to water-I put a couple drops per litre of water.Don't use WINDEX this will kill the adhesive.Hoped I helped?
[ December 02, 2002, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Randy Campbell ]
-------------------- Randall Campbell Randy's Graphics, 420 Fairfield N. Hamilton Ontario Canada Posts: 2857 | From: Hamilton Ontario Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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Most likely Randy, the prob is because of too much soap. We have 6 or so people that would mix it but, some employees are new and may mix too much or too little at times. It's hard to regulate but, I continue to show them the proper mix Ive used over the years. It's not rocket science but, if you put a couple of drops too much, it changes the whole reaction of the mix. They'll learn in time. Still interested if RT would be able to work for a 8' x 55' flex face sign without tacking up too soon. If I gotta do 2 of these types aof signs a day then, that's alot of RT!
Many moons ago, we used soap and water for wet applications. Our all around soap of choice in the shop, is Dawn, only a few drops per quart. (great de-greaser too) Since Rapid Tac has proven tried and true, we no longer fool around with mixing our own application fluids.
Ahhhh, Windex. I use it faithfully when removing vinyl from windows. Lube that window up and go at it with the scraper! The vinyl that comes off, doesn't stick to anything and makes for easy clean up. Be sure to clean the window with Rapid Prep (using cheap paper towels - hiya Roger) before applying new vinyl.
There's an 'old-timer' here in town, he used to work for the County, making municiple signs, and went out on his own years ago. Needless to say, he's strictly a vinyl shop. He's the first guy I knew that used Rapid products.
quote: Would RT still have workability after squeegieng a 8' x 55' flexfaced sign or would it tac up? unlike soap and water.
The 'old-timer' I speak of, mixes three different potions of application fluid. The base is Rapid Tac, in each stage, he adds a little more of soap, alcohol and Windex. (he prefers using 100% Isopropyl alcohol, but says it's more and more difficult to find, 70% will suffice) He uses the RT mix with the most soap and Windex for larger applications. It allows him more time for adjustments. He usually has to allow setup time and wets the transfer tape prior to removal. I must add that he uses 3M vinyl products. It works for him! Sorry, I do not know the exact measurements he uses, drop me an email if you are interested and I can find out for you.
Cher.
-------------------- Co-Host: SANDCASTLE Panel Jam 'a Dixie Letterhead Reunion' Fort Myers, Florida
Cheryl Lucas a/k/a "Shag" on mIRC Vital Signs & Graphics, Etc. Cape Coral, Florida 239-574-4713 VSignsNgraphics@aol.com Posts: 987 | From: Cape Coral, FL USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
In a pinch, I use three drops of dawn to a pint of water and about two capfuls of alcohol. That being said, I only use it in a pinch. I prefer rapid tac when doing wet applications. Its guaranteed to work, and I still dont trust the soap and water mixture. If you dont get the mixture right, then you'll have problems. Better to use rapid tac.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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Cory, having never tested that exact scenario ( 25 minute delayed app. on flexi) I would not say yes or no, however, I will say that when properly utilizing Rapid Tac application fluid, you should not have any bubbles, and should be finished with the application in just a few minutes. I'm not exactly sure why the 25 minute app, but I'm interested to hear more about it. We've always adhered to the concept that saving our cuctomers time was crucial, and helps to make most production sign shops more profitable.
-------------------- Jeff Bailey Rapid Tac Inc. Grants Pass, Oregon Posts: 231 | From: Grants Pass, Oregon, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Corey, In answer to your question regarding an 8'x55': No, I would not use Rapid Tac or any solvent based solution that speeds up the tack. It's just way too fast for that big of a lay. You need the long working window that plain soap and water gives. Twenty-five minutes is not at all unusual for working the bubbles out of a graphic that large, especially if it's a solid piece of vinyl. I have been involved in numerous overlays over 100' feet in length, and the working time is over an hour with a crew of four. We used garden sprayers to apply lots of soapy water and preferred Neschen translucent vinyl to 3M. The Neschen seems to feel 'waxier' and tougher and allows hard squeegeeing. The bubbles seem to lay down better. The fascia fabric for a typical Pilot gas station canopy is a solid overlay of red translucent on white Cooley-Brite material over a hundred feet long with a reverse-weeded Pilot logo at each end, plus a void that runs the entire length to allow for a stripe. This piece has to be laid without seams and must not even be the tiniest bit crooked at the start. Laying a piece of vinyl like this can only be done with soap and water and lots of hands. Even so it is exhausting work. (Just masking it with 48-inch premask is a job in itself and requires four people).
I love using Rapid Tac, but on huge overlays it will get you into very expensive trouble fast.
I might add that cutting a reverse-weed graphic at each end of a 100-foot piece of vinyl requires a heck of a good plotter, too.
Brad in Kansas
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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