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DO YOU SPECIALIZE OR TRY TO DO 'EVERYTHING'? IF YOUVE BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE, ARE YOU STUCK IN THE PAST, OR ARE YOU TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH TECHNOLOGY? ARE YOU A BELIEVER IN "THE OLD WAYS ARE BETTER", OR IS THERE A DESIRE TO LEARN ALL THIS NEW ELECTRONIC STUFF?
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Bob, you mention "stuck in the past" and limit it to the domain of technology. What about when we keep doing the same layouts repeatedly. Ever find yourself in a design rut? How about doing the stuff you know, and not taking the risk of doing something challenging design wise or a difficult engineering situation? I want to not remain stuck in a box, and don't want to run the race of keeping up with the latest machines.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6832 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I used to try to do everything. I tried most aspects of sign making at least once, and boy were some of them bad! And yeah, I think I am 'stuck in the past'....in a few ways. I have so many fond memories of handlettering every single sign. Many many times being the 'midnighter' signpainter at my little shop. Saving all the patterns. Making many a paper banner and accidently spilling a spot of paint, and finding clever ways to 'use' the spot. Thinking that the projector was such a great addition to the business. Having tons of Letraset letters. Boy...little did we know what was to come! Remember the 'record-a-call'....haha! I am 'stuck' in the sense that I really enjoy going downtown Seattle to see some of the old handpainted signs, love going to different cities and seeing the art in handlettered signs. I love the look of 'a little bit off, not quite perfect.' I understand alot of the good ole' ways and hold those memories near and dear to my heart. Things change so fast. As far as technology....sure it is good to keep up. I admire the heck out of old signpainters who still don't have a plotter, but at the same time I feel it is good to learn all we can. After all, we all have choices, and we can still make signs any way we choose.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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........just had this conversation with a signartist friend today,...... and we talked about doing projects we've never done before (she's doing one now..trying to figure out how best to do it)..and she does great work !, but not overly excited about the learning curve........hahaha, she said in a light way, sort of "just let me do what i know how to do very well" ...............and i am just the opposite !.......(again in a light way)......it's like every piece i do i know something about what i might do ....and i have no idea of the rest........i like doing stuff i've never done before !!! haha talk about learning curve!......... old way/new way..........i just want to have fun !!.........vance
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I Haven't been in the sign trade long enough to get stuck in old ways like projector-patterns-paint etc. but Ricks version is a trap for any of us, & one that I slip into.
I like to keep up with computer technology for business, marketing & design. New software seems important now & then, & faster computers have some advantages beyong bragging rights, but as for equipment I don't want to keep getting bigger badder toys.
I specialize in selling my edge prints as a new direction & since it adds an element to the qky/stky signs I usually do a lot of, its serving to enhance that market & add the label/decal market.
I don't plan to try to offer everything, but in time I will learn more skills. (both new & old) I am pacing myself based on keeping steady income & keeping my love for the work. Until I fear burnout, I see no need to rush out & learn everything I ever hear of here at the expense of slacking on the current un-ending workload.
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Steve!!!! right on the money. After 32 years in the Sign game I did open a shop not a barber shop but a furniture shop (7 years Saturday) which I still have with the signs as a side line. And I do remember those days of pounces brushes and epediascope(sic)then slides and then tranparency projectors and also remembering how much more valued I was as a Tradesman with people often standing by and watching with fascination as we plied our great trade on many and varied surfaces and situations. As against these days where the question invariably is... "Do you do that stick on ****?" Cant be too hard all you have to do is tell the PC... Yep But I have a fund of knowledge about where that **** will stick or if it will peel what paint to use and where. I sound like a dinosaur, but have had a plotter since "87 so am aware of both sides of the bargain.
-------------------- Don Lopez Signs Signwriter Faulconbridge N.S.W. Australia 02 4751 2158 Posts: 80 | From: Australia | Registered: Jan 1999
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I do what I do best to make a living, but the rest of my life is into technology, change and machinery. Of all the toys, I love my 64 Valiant the most, it runs a computer operated fuel injected system with sensors and can be tuned with a laptop while driving to keep up with peak performance along with some ol'technology and a roller cam.
In the kitchen I use a Convection oven, but steam broccoli in the microwave.
I use an ol 4B once in awhile for masks and although 100% of my work is paint, I dabble in designing tools for the working person as alot of persons here can testify.
And I love new-age drugs, like Viagra!
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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Yes, a one person sign shop here, lots of the old and ringing in the new when feasible. There is something about change I do not like, since there is that "dependence" on the computers which feels a bit indulging. Perhaps, a bit of "selling myself out" feeling when I stop and think how I don't want to become fully automated. I need to have the software that I have, but don't use it as much as I should to be productive. Having a computerized pounce pattern saved a lot of time back a few years ago, when I tended to be too rushed to draw it out. On one hand, I thought I would lose my layout skills but on the other, I subconsciously was able to store the memory of spacing techniques given to me from the computer. Tending to get a bit spoiled by this, there may be a bit of laziness that is instilled also, stifling my ambition to learn on my own. Yes, it was refreshing the other day to see a handdrawn lettering job on a truck. From a distance, it looked a little mundane with line after line of the same color and size copy, but when I pulled up behind the truck in traffic, I examined the letters. These painted letters were from the hand of someone that did not use a computerized pattern, but a single stroke layout as we learn in the beginning of lettering. I admired that so much, I was surprised at myself for my first impression of trying to critique the other elements. I found myself thankful that someone out there had taken the time and kept that skill with them to do this job. The truck was a handyman's truck, with a beautiful beginning! I welcome change and innovation too. If we are going to use a computer, then by all means, obtaining the state of the art if possible. Other than that, I would sub out anything I didn't want to or could not do to another fellow gal or guy shop! To me it's not about having what you like, it's about liking what you have! And sometimes, automation and subbing, or not taking on the work, means more time to get back to basics with the paper and brush. I always want a home-based biz no matter what, so which enables me to enjoy my son as he grows up. Don't want to miss a beat!
[ November 14, 2002, 06:08 AM: Message edited by: Deb Fowler ]
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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Further to what I had to say earlier I too am (was)a one man Sign Biz try to do everything including changing hats a few times a day * salesman * bookkeeper * Computer operator * Signwriter etc.etc Found it just too hard to do enough in the normal working hours often had 18 hour days, deadlines to meet made some money some stress but in the end still love it when I MAKE a SIGN (LOL)
-------------------- Don Lopez Signs Signwriter Faulconbridge N.S.W. Australia 02 4751 2158 Posts: 80 | From: Australia | Registered: Jan 1999
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After 31 years in the sign business, I think have done just about every kind of sign there is. I cut my teeth in the electric sign industry and have built, wired, installed, troubleshooted (troubleshot?) and repaired countless sets of lighted letters and cabinets.
The last two decades or so, I have migrated mostly to apartment signage because that end of the business allows me to take off and fly artistically more so than electric signs at shopping centers. I get to use more exotic materials and I also can design a theme and carry it through the project. I enjoy fabricating masonry signs and working with stone. For years, I turned down any jobs that were more ordinary and just went after the cream.
Lately, however, with the general economic doldrums, especially in the apartment industry around here, I have been less picky about what I will do. Today, we finished installation of a set of 48" internally illuminated channel letters with a 108" logo about 60' up on the side of a building. When I say “we”, I mean I designed and sold the job but contracted out the construction and installation to a company, the owner of which got his start in the sign business in 1981, when he went to work for me right out of high school.
As far as technology is concerned, I wouldn’t go back to the old days. Computer glitches cause untold amounts of stress but I enjoy being able to use the computer (when working) in my design work. It takes me just as long as it did in the old days but the quality of the presentation is so much better, not to mention the ability to have considered a number of different options in that process without having had to manually redraw and color everything. The technology also facilitates production and reorders, even when dealing with stone. Modern diamond bits and blades, CNC and water jet cutting equipment allow me to work with a medium that would otherwise be the sole province of rich guys in Italy.
Since I was always too busy trying to run a business to learn to hand letter, vinyl cutting devices have helped me to produce what I have visualized. Before the computerized plotters came along, I subbed out the painted work to some of the local signwriters if I did not have a painter directly employed by me.
I’ve had up to 14 employees and I have been a one man shop. What I like about the one man shop part is that the overhead is low and the money stays with me. I also do not have to worry about supporting someone else’s family. Although I can personally produce more paying work correctly than just about any employee I have ever had, I prefer having a multi talented employee or two working with me, which is the present state of our company. Besides, that Granite is awfully hard to lift by myself!
[ November 14, 2002, 01:27 AM: Message edited by: David Harding ]
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5114 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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1 man shop.....been this way since 86 when i went to full time. been paintin signs since i was a kid. i got a computer in 93 and with my painting ability makes it easier to do the stuff non painters cant touch. as for modern tech....the only thing ive done is get a step van and move to a SIGNS HERE & NOW, name on the truck. this mobile sign shop is the new "instant gratifaction" peoples dream. when i show up at a place to do something or get a call(cell phone with shop no. forwarded) or driving and someone will wave me over, price dont seem to to be a problem, its this..."can you do it now?" yes i can!!!!! and this setup cost is a lot less then when i had "the shop". also i get to go to car shows, and race tracks.....even if i dont sell anything i would got there. admittedly i get some jobs i cant do now, and i get bigger jobs done at the house. but if they wouldnt have seen the truck.....i wouldnt have gotten a chance to get that job. i call it a "rolling billboard" 6'x 12' on either side......and on the back doors..its says NEED A SIGN....NOW?....944-5060
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Great post Bob, I have been a traditional signwriter all my working life, with 33 years experience as a self employed person. I am in the envious position of not ever having to be 'a sticky letter guy' and spend all my day pushing paint.There are lots and lots and lots and lots of vinyl signmakers here in the UK, but now not many TRADITIONAL signwriters, so the few there are, are in demand.After 33 years I am now fully conversant with all types of traditional work and specialise in loose leaf glass gilding, which I consider to be the most exacting of all the 'trade'.I consider it is better to be a master at one trade, rather that a Jack of all trades.I am in that respect stuck in the past and enjoying ever minute !!
-------------------- Brian the Brush brian the brush uk Yorkshire, UK www.brianthebrushuk.com Posts: 123 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2001
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Hey BRIAN.....sounds like you've solved the whole issue.....IGNORE EVERYTHING.....DO WHAT YOU DO, AND GET ON WITH IT! I know your comments weren't meant to be "advice", but reading between the lines, there's EXCELLENT advice built in!
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