posted
It could be a dream project! Celebrating 100 years Saskatchewan and the 100 year anniversary of our town in 2005. Well, some said it would be nice to have a big mural to commemorate the event, but why hurry, there's lots of time. I made sure all knew that I was more than interested to be involved in this. Yesterday, out of the blue a committee shows up, drawing in hand for a 6x40' sign. They got it all figured out: numbers down this side, numbers down that side, lettering here, picture there, etc. All they wanted to know was a price. I offered to come up with an alternative design, or a few more ideas, but was told that they wanted it exactly that way, "can you do it or not?" I can't afford to lose a job of that size and can try to make the best out of it with small changes and color choices, but it's no fun.
If it will keep or get you in a good light with your city/province, and you are getting paid a fair amount for your time and resources, I would try and do it.
Not all projects are peaches and cream. When they all see the quality of your craftsmanship and the smiling personality that gets it done, some of the individules from the committee could call soon enough with the type of work you are looking for. These things happen for a reason, make the best of it!
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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well 6'x40'= 240 sq.ft. @ $10 sq.ft. is $2400 @ $5 a sq.ft. is $1200. so i wouldnt want to lose it either......tell them you can do theirs....but have one already done staying close to their design ......but with your design talent added!!!! and just hand it to them...and say this is what i can add to your design...if you like it!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I totally understand your frustration. Usually with a customer like that, I will either blow them off or shoot them a high price to try to make up for the problems you know you're going to have with this people like that. But for a job this size, I not sure what I would do.
Afterall, your name is going to be on the sign for years to come. I'd have a problem everyone thinking that it is my best work. Is it going to limit the rest of the townspeople's opinion of the work you do? Just how bad is it? If these people came to you, saw the quality of work you do and still think their design is better than anything you could come up with, do you really want to deal with them? I understand it's a large job, and we all could use the work, but it's also a high profile job that could work against you.
posted
There will always be critics. And there will always be praises. Do it and keep a spec sheet handy for any complaints. I wouldn't worry about anything other than doing a great job and getting paid.
I would suspect they already checked your work and know how good you are. You were asked to do it...
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Do the work,with a disclaimer that ........ "THIS IS NOT MY DESIGN"
P.S. They probably thought of having to PAY for a Great Design. By passing for someone's wife/daughter/nephew or themselfs as being the "creative genius" behind it all.
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Lottie.. I would just give them a price on what they want. If you REALLY don't like their layout suggest an alternative layout and tell them why you are showing it to them, that you understand their position, but as an artist you feel an obligation to make sure that they are aware of other alternatives. This thing probably went through a committee, and sometimes getting everyone to agree on one thing can be a problem, so maybe that's why they don't want to change it...if it took them a long time to get this far. But sometimes a nice layout speaks for itself, and if you tell them you can do the nicer one (yours),for the same price as their design, maybe you can get it changed. Sometimes if you can just get one person on your side it will work.
The whole scenario makes me wonder who the designer was, and why aren't they pricing it (or are they?)If you have suggestions for some changes to the design, maybe the original designer and you could talk it over.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Hi I agree with all of you, I know that I will make the best out of what I have to work with, I just wish I could do so much more with this. The story is actually longer. I made a big sign for much the same committee about 4 years ago. It was tough then to get all that they wanted on that sign in some more or less decent manner. I was never satisfied with it, but they love it so much, that they pretty well want me to reproduce a similar sign with different images and some of the extras that they thought of. I know that I'm better at design since, and would love the challenge to start from an entirely different idea, but they are totally set on what they want. I think I'll get them to agree on a price and make sure I got the job, and then try to change this and that, staying in the same price range (about halfways between your numbers,OP)
Shoot them a really high bid. If you get it great, and if you don't no problem. Design a fabulous mural, paint it on the side of your signshop and use your skill to outshine the other one! "Donate" it to the town, congratulating them on 100 years. Makes you look generous and caring, and might teach them to trust your judgement next time!!
Suelynn (Can I come and help you paint it?)
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Give them exactly what they want, then turn right around and do a REAL design for your own 100 year celebration and put it right in front of your shop.
Oh... put yours up a year or six months early. If nothing else, it might jumpstart a wave of local patriotism and get you more 100yr celebration work cause other businesses and home owners in town will want something nice too.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I agree with all of the above! Without bringing in lengthy personal experiences, I can make this short! I have experienced:
1. Many times an artiste' will be involved who has a very delicate ego and there can be NO change. 2. This may be a problem with them or a family or committee member who is trying to protect their feelings, too. 3. This also may arise from a company who will not insult their architect or logo design person (professional or amateur) due to many reasons, (can be fear of losing, insulting them). 4. I would go ahead and definitely sign "this is not my work" somewhere to be noticed. Pat, I feel that would work for me! It can be modestly placed somewhere on the sign. 5. Wonderful idea of outshining them if you have the opportunity and ambition! This also educates the community of good plan design and shows what a good sport you are. Your time is just not worth arguing when you could spend every minute creating an additional form of work for your own satisfaction to place where you want it. (can you imagine all the wasted time committees and others spend talking about a subject they were never trained about? Not too mention, the time they used thinking and planning how to get a reputable sign person to bend completely to their orders! Ha! You guys are gems, I love this post!
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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What a great idea, Suelynn!(and Mike too) Things always look so different when we find a positive side to it. In fact, thinking over my own post, it's sort of funny that I am complaining about others liking my sign.... Please DO come and help. Wouldn't that be fun? I'll promise to feed you well (even gnocchi if you wish)
posted
Lotti....I know just how you feel! My work often involves doing a design by an architect and/or committe! Sometimes you can point out things to an architect....but....NEVER to a committe! It is "We have made up our minds, so don't try to confuse us with facts!"
Simply add a banner to the bottom of the mural, stating "Designed and funded by XXXXXX Committee". Maybe even add all their names! They will love it! PLUS it will get you off the hook for an ugly design!
I don't know what prices are up there, but a minimum of $15 sq ft is a decent price! DON'T go in cheap....the more they pay, the better they will like it!
Then....if you have a wall space...do one that will knock them off their feet!
[ November 05, 2002, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8827 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hey Lottie & SueLynn You girls can come to Holdfast and practice on my building. I just put a new tin roof on and it needs a paint job. Lottie, make sure you don't go too low on that mural - with our weather it could be a nightmare. Kel
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Lotti; Give them two prices, one first for a full size layout on paper that meets their approvial,then another for doing the actual painting. If they like both prices the job is yours, if they want to cut corners tell them that you can put numbers for colors on the full size layout and the committee can do the painting themselves, you know, like paint by numbers.
J.G. Kurtzman
-------------------- John Kurtzman J.G. Kurtzman Sign Shop 97 Taylor Ave. Norwalk, Ct. 06854
----------------------------------- Creative communication since 1959 Posts: 213 | From: So. Norwalk, Ct. USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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i ALWAYS like Suylynn's suggestions -- and i'll add one of my own:
price their job with their design. then give them a LOWER price for the job that you've designed. at least you'll give them an opportunity to save money and get your own work out there. (although, it sounds like this committee likes things they way they like them.) you can tell them that your design is easier to paint, and that's why it costs less. (it doesn't have to BE easier -- you're just telling them that).
either way, it sounds like a great opportunity for you. congratulations.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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I had to get my map out and find out where Holdfast is. Now my wheels are turning!! We could do 3 murals together, one in Holdfast, one in Pelly and one in Carnduff. Wouldn't that be a hoot?
Lotti, I'd love to help you out. Let me know how this turns out and maybe I could come up for a weekend. It would be my first mural...something I've always wanted to try.
Thanks for the compliment Scooter! Made my day.
Suelynn
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Let's do it, Suelynn! I'm serious. Even if we do only one every year we'll be done by 2005. What do you say Kelly? I've got my wall picked out already, anybody scared of hights? Love reading all of your posts, some of you are just too funny! I gave the committee a price yesterday for their meeting and haven't heard from them yet. We'll see. Thanks.
posted
If you don't do it someone else will. Why get in your own way? It sounds like a committee that's bent on doing things their own way, work with em', maybe you'll earn a shot at the next project. We all have worked on designs that go "against the grain". It probably is someone elses Dream Project too,...just don't let it become a Nightmare.
-------------------- Rich Stebbing RichSigns Rohnert Park CA 707-795-5588 Posts: 755 | From: Rohnert Park, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I am sorry but I am the one who won't help you on this one! As an artist you are confronted to two things: whether you won't sleep well because you are worying about the money you did'nt make by reproducing crappy design OR you won't sleep well because you are reproducing crappy design that you are very ashame of! Any way you won't sleep well!!! Though decision...
-------------------- Pierre Tardif P. Tardif Inc. 1006 boul. PIE-XI sud Val-Belair QC. Canada G3K 1L2 418-847-4089 pierre@ptardif.com Posts: 800 | From: Quebec city | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I'm sure there is way more to this story than mentioned... reminds me why I am so fussy about the mural jobs I take on these days.
But that is a position many of us can't often afford to take, especially in our own small town.
But after a few 'design by committee' murals (which don't appear in my portfolio)I am REAL REAL FUSSY these days. I've even won a couple mural commissions, only to turn the murals down when the "committee" started to rear it's ugly head and waanted to change my winning submission which was prepared from the photographs they gave to me (and not in minor little ways). When you get that bad feeling you have to listen. Murals last a long time and the worse they are, the longer they seem to last
I would go through the excercise of doing an alternate design which satisfies you. They don't have to take it but at least you will have tried. At the very least it will make a nice sample for your studio wall and it will make sleeping at night much easier.
Good luck!
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Lottie & SueLynn, I'm in! I have done a few murals. Probably the one you may have seen is on the coffee pot in Davidson. I also have one in the Manitou Springs Spa near Watrous. My first mural was at the Western Development museum in Moose Jaw along with a bunch of other mural students. Our instructor was grrrreat! Remember the airplanes Dan? I don't know if you remember Ruth Hamilton, but she finally got her mural in Moose Jaw and painted a 20' high mural when she was in her 90's. What a lady! Kel
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Great Kelly! Moose Jaw is one of my favorite cities because of all the murals there! Maybe we'll go a little smaller though, eh? Pierre and Dan, I'll be sleeping well, lol. I wish I could be like you, Dan and do only what I want to do, but I struggle with the combination of business/artist. I know, I know, it's been discussed over and over. Never mind
posted
Maybe I should have explained in my post?.. the "artiste' or logo design person or architect would NOT be referring to the sign individual. It is referring to the work done by someone else and not being of good quality in most cases, nor something you would be proud of doing. Impossible sometimes to work with them without wasting too much time and money.
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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