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I was thinking, after reading the post of design ownership statement, I am now wondering, who is charging for design? and if you are not, why not? Since I work at a design firm, it's obvious we get paid for it, but I never understood not charging for your time, I did work at a place where we deducted the design cost if we got the job, but thats about as close to free as I have seen. Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1540 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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If you read the other post then you already know I do, but it was not always this way!
In the begining Iwanted to "show off" my ability or lack there of, lol.
then it also came down to confidence and making money. the more confident I became in my work and the more money I wanted to make rather than lose, it was obvious.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5150 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hi Rick.....if a sign says something simple such as 'Parking for Hair Salon only' in plain lettering....I don't feel a design fee is relevant. If the hair salon wants their logo on the sign..there is a fee to reproduce it for applying to the sign. If somebody wants a design for thier espresso stand such as a menu layout...I always charge a design fee. And naturally if somebody wants a whole logo designed, there is a fee starting at 150.00 and going up to 500.00.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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Rick, I completly agree with Cheryl, The trick that I learned was to get the customer to feel comfortable with your work & portfolio, then ask them if they would like to see some drawings. Of course they would, then you tell them that is where the work starts, and it take a deposit to start the designs. I generaly charge $150 (paid up front) for a logo to start and the expain that then they can use it for there trucks, signs, business cards, T shirts, etc. I also explain that for the $150 the get a disk with a EPS file, and A.I. file, along with a print out of the design. That way they fell like they are physically getting someting to walk away with, along with a new logo design. I often get someone that stops in the shop and says "how much to put my name on my truck"? By showing them my portfolio and quoting rough prices NOT INCLUDING the design they seem impressed. Most will write you a check, and that way I can letter something nice, instead of plain and cheap, like they wanted to start with.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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My design fees are "HIDDEN" with in the total cost to the customer. I find it easyer to get payed for my time this way. Something about a seperate(design fee)being paid that the customer wants to be allowed to have a hand in the process. The MORE I can keep thier fingers out of the pie the better the pie comes out. Hope this helps
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Seems like where I live and am just starting out, we have a real lack of design in general -- signs, architecture, landscaping, everything. Our region is culturally starved and that includes all things to do with art in everyday life. The signs that are up now are screaming that someone is telling the customer they charge per color and everyone is opting for 1 color (red) -- 2 colors if they really want to splurge. The signs also look as though when the signmaker said he'd be charging for his design time, they decided to go home and put together their own layout and logo.
So in my mind the process is to somehow begin to create an eye and an appetite in the community for sign design. I want to be able to design my customer's logo and signage.
What I decided to do is offer "free" design service for a limited time. I've put a card on my counter with the offer and it details what the dollar value of this "free" service is with an end date. This way I hope to get across the message that my design time has a monetary value and exactly what that is.
I also have the added benefit of having some wiggle room if I inadvertantly undercharge while I'm learning to price my work. "Yeah, that is a lot less than the quote you got down the road, since I'm not charging for my design time until the end of January."
We'll see if this works out.
-------------------- Penny Baugh Lee Edmund Spyro Design Group
Spyro Graphics 3458 Main Street, East Fort Payne, AL 35968
posted
i charge a design fee when they don't have a logo. i also charge a design fee when there are many parts to a job -- the fee is to make some overall design elements that will be used in the job.
if the customer already has a logo and wants it repurposed into a sign (such as the sandwich board sign for the bar i just finished) then i don't charge a design fee -- the cost of using their logo is built into the project.
i price things by the Sign Contractors Pricing Guide and i find that the prices in the expensive column (multiple colors or nice patterns) usually have enough labor built into them to cover basic design work.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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I'm with Pat on this one. My fees are hidden in the total charge. For the day to day typical job, some knucklehead down the road will always be a lot less expensive. HOWEVER, I find that I get my price 95% of the time once I've met with the customer and show them signs I've done. With that, my signs are almost always priced higher than the rest. It gets easer every day.
I know what a job is worth, what my costs are and how much time is involved.
Pat also stated in another post, A BUCK A MINUTE!
That's what I shoot for too! Some jobs I can do so fast, I'm reluctant to let the customer know how long it takes me. Soo... I have them drop it off and pick it up the next day.
Works for me!!
-------------------- Mark Neurohr "Ernest" Paintin' Place 141 Sunnyside Road Kittanning, PA 16201
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I tell people that if we can get the design done in 15 mins, its free. If not I get $60 an hour. Unfortunately, I find that I get generous and pretty soon 15 mins turn into 20, then 25 and so on. Then I kick myself in the bottom, remind myself how much it cost to keep the shop open, and get back to my own rule.
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Theme Park: 2,000,000 sign budget To big for a sign shop 50,000-100,000-Design Build 150,000-250,000- Design Firm
Design billed per hour: Sign Shop:40-80 an hour Design Build-80-100 an hour Design Firm-100-150 an hour
What a big difference I have seen through my different jobs, and I have learned on thing, you are not gonna get paid for design, unless you ask.As far as Steves Duh! I agree, but if I were not charging for design I probably would not post on here for fear of being ridiculed, thanks for your posts, I hope there are more. Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1540 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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i do lots of dirt racing cars here in md.and pn. since they usually have 3-8 sponsors the art time is quite long. so before starting i tell them there is a set-up fee to be payed up front .1 time. since most are accustomed to set-up fees from t-shirt shops,they dont mind paying.if anyone gets race cars to do please save yourself and get paid for your layout time. lots of logo scans and detail editing really eats up the clock. its not bad when they crash,all you do then is cut and apply....HIP
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