posted
I have a problem with a customer complaint of paint peeling from pressure-treated posts. The customer's specifications required painted PT posts, despite knowing that PT is supposed to go unpainted for some months because of this problem. There are at least eight posts in question, with a potential for problems with up to eighteen. I offered to repaint the posts, but reminded the customer that until the posts have dried out sufficiently they will continue to have this problem, so I suggested that the posts be stored indoors for the winter, then repainted and installed in the spring. They want ME to store their posts for three months and then repaint them; I flatly refused - I dont't have room to be tripping over eight 12 foot posts all winter, because they insisted on painted posts.
Is there a paint system that will not peel off fresh PT? I painted these with a stain treatment of bulletin enamel thinned with Penetrol, and had not had a problem like this before, which makes me wonder whether the PT manufacturers changed something in the treatment process.
Ideally, I'd like to just repaint the damn things immediately and be done with it. Any suggestions would be helpful.
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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As you already know, PT wood is saturated with water/chemicals. You're right, about a month is needed for them to dry sufficiently. I like to let mine dry at least a couple of weeks before painting. I try to choose posts which feel lighter and thus contain less water.
However, bulletin enamel or any other oilbase does not permit water/vapors to permeate as well as waterbased paint does.
I first beltsand the posts (also, rounding the edges with a router keeps the paint from separating or peeling away from the sharp corners and makes them look nicer too) then I apply two coats of solid color latex stain followed by two coats of acrylic latex paint. You can also just eliminate the topcoat and use only the stain as it is very durable. All the posts that we've painted this way are holding up very well. I know of one that we coated with bulletin enamel, however, which is doing exactly as you described. Most likely, the water/vapor/gases are trying to escape from the PT and causing the paint to peel.
I'm not saying that you couldn't use the bulletin color, but I would think that the wood would need to be bone dry first.
The latex works great for us.
------------------ Wayne Webb Webb Sign Studio creators of "woodesigns" "autograph your work with excellence" webbsignstudio@digitalexp.com
[This message has been edited by Wayne Webb (edited January 03, 2001).]
Posts: 7405 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Cam, I don't mess with PT posts but I will remember this one. Wouldn't have a water base primer been better to use first, then paint them? Or can you call the people you bought them from and find out if the changed chemicals? Bummer, man.
------------------ FranCisco Vargas aka: Cisco aka:Traveling Millennium Sign Artist http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935
"to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98
Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
cam if the posts are gona be painted black....go to an auto paint store, and ask for "radiator paint", its a flat black paint you can thin with gasoline.....and it will stick to anything...and the gasoline for thinner helps it bond to the surface....and the post will sorta look like the old "creasote" black.....
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Bummer is right...I don't give guarantees on painted anything, I take that back, I guarantee all moving parts on my signs for 1 full year! LOL Hey ol' paint, where did you get black from? ------------------ There is nothing new under the sun. What will be has already been and what has been will be again. Daniel R. Perez Daniez Dzines Fresno, CA daniez2001@yahoo.com
[This message has been edited by Daniez (edited January 03, 2001).]
Posts: 299 | From: Fresno, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Black POR15 does it permanently go to their website at www.por15.com and read about it. Many automotive paint stores carry it.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
Hope you got the "big bucks" for this one... Here's what I do...not only does the moisture create a problem but there is a sluffing off process of the "pickling"(for lack of a better term) a kind of scale left on the outside of the treated material about the consistancy of salt.I have found that by running the material through a powerplaner or fencing it through a table saw just deep enough to "skin the material and give yourself a clean surface to paint (even if there is moisture in the material if you prime it with a piss thin latex paint(or latex primer) then paint it with a good exterior latex it will hold up quite well and actually hold the moisture in helping it not to warp.After a while tho(usually about a year) the material does dry and shrink it is then that the paint will check and start to peel, a second coat will usually keep everything in good shape for another year .If the customer expects any more than this, he should be paying for the maintenance don't you think?
"Werks fe rme it'll werk fer you"
------------------ Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.
posted
I ran into a similar situation some time ago. What I found to work for me was to.....
1) Sand the raw treated posts with a belt sander to knock of all of the crappy stuff.
2) Take lettering enamel and thin it by 40-50% with mineral spirits (plain ol' paint thinner) and apply the mixture to the posts as a primer. Allow to dry.
3) Apply 2 two coats of lettering enamel at full strength. (Be sure to lightly sand between coats)
Since then I have never had a single failure in over 10 years.
Another option is to go strictly all latex paint on the posts. Supposedly, latex will allow the post to breathe, but I have had some failures at the primer level. For primer I have tried using "Jay Cooke's", "Sherwin-Williams'" standard primer and Sherwin-Williams' new "Duration" paints. I've had more successes than failures with this method. But, I have had failure.
posted
Okay - I'll stick my neck out here - I,m ready for the flamethrowers. I do a lot of Real Estate signs; always painted pressure treated posts. Try to find the light weight posts as mentioned above, though thats beside the point now. I use the cheapest exterior latex I can find - usually the 10 buck a gallon stuff they sell at Fred's Dollar store. Have had many out now for 2-3 yrs., no problems yet. I use one thin coat with a 4" foam roller, straight from the can, no paint tray needed with the 4" roller. Let dry of course, one more good heavy coat, then install. Touch up after sign is installed. Now, can anyone advise us how to keep them from warping? Some warp after 2-3 weeks, some are still straight as an arrow. Suggestions, please.
------------------ Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Sonicob@aol.com
Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
I paint my tp with Oil based industrial enamel when painting them white. When a color is needed i use 1-Shot Lettering or bulletin paint. I lay it on thick and as many coats as needed to make it look nice. I'm in Michigan and have never had a problem with a post that I have painted. Now bare posts are another item, I hate twisted posts and the quality of the posts vary from supplier to suplier or shipment to shipment. When picking up my posts I try to get the lighter ones and look closely to see how true they are.Good luck with your posts, I would aproach it this way. Find somewhere to stack those post flat and please the customer. It only takes one customer to mess up your reputation and you did paint the post. Good luck.
------------------ Kevin L. Kleinhans Alma Signs (Signs Be Me) Alma, Michigan 517 463-6851
Posts: 139 | From: Alma, MI USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
daniez...used to sell it at NAPA called chassis black or radiator black.....we thinned it with gas an sprayed it on radiators...thine with enamel reducer and spray frames...
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Cam..try intermediate Vynull. Dude....where's my squeegee?
------------------ Mike Meyer SignPainter 575 1st Street Box 3 Mazeppa, Mn 55956 (507) 843-5951 EMail-mikemeyer@sleepyeyetel.net http://www.markfair.com/mikemeyer check out this great web site..www.grainbelt.com
Posts: 3617 | From: Mazeppa, Mn usa | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Fence companies in your area can order any length hollow PVC posts. I pay $22 for 10 footers and don't have to prime or paint, they don't warp and are VERY strong. I can't buy PT posts, prime and paint for that low a cost. If extra support is needed for mounting or strength a PT post will fit inside or even a piece of PT 2x4. Signs up to 4x8 can be completely built with posts attached while in the shop, carried to the install site and placed over a couple stubbed up PT 4x4's. As for painting PT posts, I belt sand the grunge, round the edges and paint/prime with latex with VERY few failures in 30 years. For warping there's nothing you can do when they make these out of little pine trees that have bark out to the edges, some of these trees were not straight when they were cut, they only got straightened when they were strapped together in a bundle. The only solution to this is buy a bundle and leave it strapped together for 6 months to a year and let it completely dry, break the bundle and cull anything with a slight crook. Most of the lumber yards (around here) store it outside unprotected and it is dripping wet when we get it so I try to keep a few on hand out in the shed out of the weather.
------------------ Larry
Elliott Design McLemoresville, Tn.
If you can't find the time to do it right, where gonna find the time to do it over?
Posts: 486 | From: McLemoresville, TN. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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The PT posts were specified by contract with the customer, a local municipality, as was the color, a dark green. So, changing the specs (using PVC or anything else) was not an option, even though PT is NOT my favorite choice. The posts are 4"x6"x12'
At this point I have not actually seen the posts since they left my shop; so I don't know for sure if the problem is actually that the color is peeling, OR if they have been handled roughly by the Town crew who are supposed to install them, and the paint is abraded. If that is the case, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish. Until I see them, I don't know what the story is.
My lesson in all of it is that dealing with government on any level is to lower oneself to moron status. In the case of this contract, the materials as originally specified, both for the signs and the posts, were chosen by people with no concept of reality. In this case, reality is a bite in the ass, as it always is when somebody tries to pretend otherwise. My only real answer is to go out and slop more paint on these stupid posts, which SHOULD have been specified correctly by someone with an actual clue, instead of some brain-dead municipal paper-pusher who spends life in the position of permanent cranio-rectal inversion. So be it. Pardon my rant; I just had the need to vent.
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Rant and rave all you want here because there really is a lot of pressure from customer clientele and you are not alone. Most of my customers go with the natural look because they don't want to wait. However, in this situation, this is what I would do: Have them touch the posts up with a foam brush on site for now, and then offer to buy some new ones and let them cure in a heated building until they are ready to paint them. They pay for all the new materials and new installation when the new ones are ready. Tell them you will even do the shopping yourself to help them out (this will insure the straight posts and correct paint.) Tell them you won't charge for the (ingenuity) professional advice and give them a break on the labor of painting them in the shop. It would be a win/win situation because it will take care of the problem and their posts will look fine immediately while the other is in progress. just a thought! Deb
------------------ Deb Creative Signs "All the gold in the world cannot buy a dying man one more breath. So what does that make today worth?" Og Mandino
Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
If you don't want to store the posts, this could be done in the spring. Some posts take up to six months to cure. Are they willing to wait that long? Are they willing to store them? Those may be factors as you mentioned.
------------------ Deb Creative Signs "All the gold in the world cannot buy a dying man one more breath. So what does that make today worth?" Og Mandino
Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I recently found a great product for P/T wood, it's called "Spa-N-Deck". It's waterbased and the instuctions say to paint it on "wet wood", not dry. I found this at a marine lumber supplier. I needed to paint some pilings a weathered gray I installed so they didn'nt have that green P/T look. Just one coat did it, too. It's made by the Flood Company. 1-800-533-8325 for a dealer near you.
------------------ Robert Thomas Creative Signs In Beautiful Naples, Fl.
Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
We've used Cabot's acrylic stains with great results--zero failures in 10 years--just brush it on, 2 or 3 coats--they make some great colors---forest green posts with a copper cap! Their flat black is great,too. We also use Cabot stain on sandblasted sign foam, and they make a very good primer for redwood. Much "gubment work" is specced by nincompoops. Mary Black Mountain Sign Studio
------------------ Mary
Posts: 13 | From: Black Mountain, N.C. USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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