You all know those bullet holes that are out there? Well we have a bike shop that sells some of our decals for us and his customers have placed orders for something I can't figure out. He has told them they will be in in about a week and that was days ago. I have worked on these and I just can't figure it out. We are kinda new to the edge and omega software. I can do basic things but I can't figure this out. Can anyone help me please.
Thanks, Teresa
-------------------- Randy Jones Speed FX P.O.Box 43094 Baltimore,Md.21236 U.S.A.
Not to sound totally out of touch... but what exactly do you need help doing?
Have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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Sorry sometimes I think everyone knows what I'm thinking.
I can't get the fade to look smooth and gradual enough. The center of the bullet hole is black then it has a part that looks lighter above it and a part that is darker below it. I guess I need help fading it smoothly. I also have large dots when I print it and on the sample one I have it has small dots from the fade.
Thanks for your help. Teresa
-------------------- Randy Jones Speed FX P.O.Box 43094 Baltimore,Md.21236 U.S.A.
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Hey Teresa, I can paint them on their bikes, but they're so real that it voids the frame warranty!!
John / Signrider
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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Call Gleen Taylor or Bob Gilliand. They are two of the most knowledgable EDGE people I know. Not to mention, pretty darn nice people.
Have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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The edge 1 prints at 300 dpi, the edge 2 can print at 300 dpi on one axis & 600 dpi on the other. The sample you are looking at may not be printed on the edge & may not be subject to the same limitations. A good silkscreen printer may achieve a better fade. (as well as a better price on large quantities)Some digital equipment may also print at a higher resolution, but usually with a shorter outdoor life then the edge decals.
How are you setting up the file? did you scan the sample? or are you drawing your own? Are you creating a rastor image to print as process? or are you creating a vector image with gradiant fills? If you are creating a vector file are you using Omega for the original?
I guess a lot of what those questions are getting at is, do you have a file that is already acceptable in terms of halftone fade quality on the monitor, &/or when printing a proof on an inkjet? if so, then it is a question of how to tweak Omega or GA into giving you the best you can get from your edge. If not then creating the acceptable original artwork is the first part of your solution.
Once you have a good file, if printing as a process, you have several choices of dot patterns etc. that you can select. I would run samples under several choices, label them, & save for reference. If you are new at the edge this is a good idea anyway.
By the way I have been using mine for 22 months & although it is a good idea, I did it only briefly when I first got the edge & barely understood what I was doing, & I no longer have the files for reference, so maybe I will take my own advice.
Good Luck, post your final results in the portfolio page.
I forgot about Doug! Sheesh, Louise! Sorry Buddy...
Have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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when doing bullet holes the dark fade goes on the top as it reflects the color of the ground and the light fade goes on the bottom which reflects the ski. Just a little help.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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No worries Bruce, I am definintly a 2nd-string player to those 2 guys on edge knowledge. I'll try to give 'em a run for their money on "nice people" though.
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Teresa, check to see if you have a Discount Auto Parts or similar in your area. These stores carry the little bullet hole decals to put on cars. They can be found in the customizing area with the pinstriping tapes. Or, just give them a call Also, JC Whitney carries them. Just a thought.
-------------------- John Smith Kings Bay Signs (Retired) Kissimmee, Florida Posts: 817 | From: Central Florida - The Sunshine State | Registered: Jan 2000
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For small close up decals the Gerber Edge will print great images from bitmaps but just try to get good fades with their software.
When you can't get the Edge software to make a nice gradient on a filled vector file. Change over to a bitmap.
You can convert it and use photoshop to achieve exactly what you want, then output it as a TIF and print it on the Edge. Of course you will have to use the Gerber software to add the cutline.
ernie
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1701 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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Try this. These are "holes" I created in corel10. I'm sure there are better ones out there... and they are all over the place. Bullet Holes
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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Not to dispute you ...but how can a bitmap print a finer dot pattern through the Edge? The edge is only capable of 600 dpi (Edge II), and even that doesn't look much better than 300.
The dot size is still gonna be the same.
Visually speaking - the same dot size on a small part (like the little bullet holes)is going to APPEAR larger than that same dot pattern used on a 11" X 64" long fade. Small parts will appear to have large, but fewer dots in the small area they are used. This isn't technically true, but visually true.
I don't think she will be able to achieve the same "smooth" fade look used on the popular bullet holes we've seen using the Edge.
They must print them with some kind of roto-gravure printing or something.
Explain the bitmap thing in more detail if you could....maybe you've found a neat trick that will be useful in the Edge Circles. That would be cool if there was a way to achieve an apparent "smaller" dot. Thanks and have a good one.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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First, thanks for the acknowledgement Bruce. Dana needs to let you out more; there are plenty of others “out” here that know more then I. And stop those nasty rumors about me being “nice”, that’s been assigned to Glenn! (Plus I have a reputation to uphold.) And Doug, I perceive you doing a very respectable job for the time frame that you have had your Edge. (insert a well deserved pat on the back icon here, or send plane ticket and I’ll do it in person )
Teresa, looks like you got some good feedback going on. Without actually looking at the job, I don’t feel comfortable in giving any specifics. So the next few lines are stated in a very general term; perhaps applicable, perhaps not.
The design will probably be best served by spot colors, maybe multiple colors, (Spectratone usage perhaps) tints of colors, gradients, non default halftone settings, overprints and perhaps choke and spread issues as well. (And if fills “warped” with the object, maybe even some “warp” usage) If some of those topics are foreign to you, then yes, it may be more of a challenge to get acceptable output from the device. And now matter how “good” or “experienced” an operator, your current hardware/software will not be able to reproduce 100% the sample you have there if screen printed by a competent company.
Your remark about gradients not appearing smooth may be addressed by the starting and ending values assigned for the size of area to be filled, combined with the halftone used. As a general rule, the higher the lpi, the smaller the dot but the more the eye can see “banding “ or “stepping” in the fill. Dropping the lpi backs reduces the “banding” issue, but the dot size is increased. Like so much in life, there is no free lunch. It is up to you/customer to determine the suitability between the two. Also remember, unlike ink based machines, thermal devices have no measurable dot gain or loss, or “bleed” per say.
For your particular situation, you may want to investigate other manufactures foils to open up some design possibilities. This comment is made based on your statement of a Black center with lighter and darker gradients above and below. Which does lead me to ask a question (while having a smile on my face) If using Black as the center, what are you using to make the part below center darker then black?
I’ll be going through the Baltimore area this coming Friday to visit some suppliers and another Edge based shop in route to my “mini” vacation in Ocean City. Email me or call if interested in a “brief” visit. (going by the area code and local exchange of your phone muber, I’ll guess that your located on the east side out near the beltway?) Details about this job and your “Edgeucation” can be discussed in much greater detail and depth at that time.
Ernie, I’m with Todd on this one. I’m a big Edge fan and supporter, but raster based images at a small size is not a strong point of the device in its current state. There are some “things” in development that may allow for enhanced output in these types of situations, but for now, this would be a good ColorCamm project. I have often said each device has its place, and this is an instance where the CC machine could easily outshine the Edge from a quality outpoint standpoint. (Depending on the actual size which has not been publicly stated)
For anyone that has actually seen small raster based output from either machine knows what is being talked about. From a hardware standpoint, the Roland devices have higher dpi heads. From the software side, Gerber doesn’t offer full postscript support or much user control over halftone settings. Most folks never move off the “Gerber Tone” halftones, and for good reason. The engineers have put forth a lot of effort to find “optimal” settings for a wide range and have “locked down” those settings once found. Unfortunately, if the end user wanted to manipulate any of the items that comprise a halftone, they can’t. The control that is currently allowed by Gerber is limited to lpi (frequency) and only in certain instances.
So, the issue with “small” stuff on the Edge is a combination of hardware and software. This is nothing “new” and the various vendors are addressing these issues even as you read this.
-------------------- Bob Gilliland InKnowVative Communications Harrisburg PA, USA
"The U.S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." Benjamin Franklin Posts: 642 | From: Harrisburg, PA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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You might give AAWI a call, they probably sell those things. 1-800-733-3316 or got to www.aawi.com lots of vehicle graphics kits and the like there. They sell barbed wire pinstriping, so I'm sure they have bullet holes too.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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Your monitor is only 72 dpi and it looks pretty good when displaying bitmaps. The Edge can print bitmaps at 300 dpi. So why does it look so bad? This question used to drive me crazy. Now to get best results "I just dump the bitmap to the Edge"
No, it's not perfect but I haven't got any complaints from my customers.... yet.
The edge suffers from a basic halftone characteristic that lets you have small dots or lots of grey levels. You don't get both at once. The problem is at it's worst for small decals that you view close up.
Gerber's approach is to use big dots for signs, "Big dots don't matter at a distance".
My rules of thumb for getting decent photograpic decals are as follows: 1) Scan color photo into photoshop 2) Leave it as RGB and do your editing. 3) Output it as a TIF 4) Place image in GA6 and use "Gerber tone photo" 5) Add a cutline and output the process job to the Edge.
It works for clipart as well as photos. If I have to do a fade I do it in Photoshop not GA.
I know this is nothing new to experienced users. If you have a better way I'm all ears!
ernie
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1701 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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Part of the point I think Ernie was making is that Gerbers software has severe limitations on gradients that can be created, while tools such as gradient mesh & other things like plug-ins etc. allow greater creativity to be put into achieving a desired look. Then printing as a bitmap is pf course required. Not to get better dots, just to bend them to your will a little better.
posted
Stop by my shop, we are doing a seminar tonight in Detroit for some high resolution, realistic looking bullet holes. I don't believe they are printed though.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Good point Doug. On Devil's Night all seminars are cancelled due to the symposiom on how how to apply flames to houses rather than cars. Brings all the media here, very popular.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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If all else fails, just take your .38 and shoot the car yourself for just the cost of a few rounds. (just kidding! I hope to find the easy answer to this one also)
-------------------- John Cordova Gitano Design Studio Albuquerque, NM Posts: 268 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Thanks for all you help and advice. What I finally got to work which was probably the long way around. I used a corel pic and added a cut line and printed it as a process job but only did the first color. I did grey foil on black vinyl. That made the dots small enough.
Jeff, I couldn't get that file.
Bob, If you would like to stop by that would be great. I am still learning alot about this program. We haven't had it very long and they just did a basic intro to the software. The rest I have been learning on my own.
Thanks everyone.
-------------------- Randy Jones Speed FX P.O.Box 43094 Baltimore,Md.21236 U.S.A.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
...but how can a bitmap print a finer dot pattern through the Edge? The edge is only capable of 600 dpi (Edge II), and even that doesn't look much better than 300.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
And stop those nasty rumors about me being “nice”, that’s been assigned to Glenn! (Plus I have a reputation to uphold.) ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
And Doug, I perceive you doing a very respectable job for the time frame that you have had your Edge. (insert a well deserved pat on the back icon here, or send plane ticket and I’ll do it in person 
)![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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