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Hello Heads. With Labor Day being upon us, I am wondering just how many of our number have ever worked in a Union shop, or if any have ever been union members, past or present.Have you had any positive or negative experiences with trade unions ? Have any of you had the experience of "crossing swords" with a union on any jobsite, or have you experienced a good working relationship with union members?
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2689 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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I've been a Teamster and I'm currently a member of the Painters & Decorators Union here, because I have to be to work at Disneyland, just in case they ever call me back. Without the unions we would all be getting minimum wage, but they don't really do much else. A couple of sign guys at D'Land got the Axe and the Union brought them back, but in a lesser job capacity. The Teamsters got me a job once like that, in a new location, and for less pay. The studios are all union but most of them have let all the sign painters go and they hire out to subcontractors now. Since I'm laid off from D'Land, and the Union isn't getting me another gig, I should be able to have a temporary withdrawal card, so I wouldn't have to keep up the dues - but they have a new rule and there is no such card. So I have to shell out $120 every 3 months to stay on the recall list. It sometimes takes 6 months to get something done at Disneyland because of the Union attitude. Bunch of lazy bums. I'm used to having to perform the job. I can't imagine the anxiety one would go through trying to get a project completed if they had to hire a Union crew. It's all politics, and if you want to see a gang of real crooks - join the Teamsters and try to get something done.
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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This spring I applied for and got Permitee status in I.A.T.S.E. Local 891 doing work in the film industry (paint dept., signwriting and related paint things.)
It's my first experience with unions, They seem to have a lot of influence in the Industry here. The rates are good. The work is so totally different than commercial work, I am finding it so interesting, techniques, watching tv or movies, i'm looking at the sets/backgrounds....what story????
Slso, most all is done with latex, for drying times and ageing methods. So many ways to age thilngs, you really have to let go of "YOUR" sign, cause in most cases, it's going to be put thru the wringer, so to speak.
Yours in Brotherhood/Sisterhood...John Lennig
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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I've got a couple of stories reguarding the union, none good...
First, right after 9/11 a guy I do work for on his kids race car calls me, he works for PPG (paint people) they do alot wof work in the auto industry if your not familiar, well he tells me that chrysler wants to put a couple of vans on display to show their American pride, great we do a whole stars and stripes thing, turns out great, gets a ton of media coverage, very happy customers, no problem with union on this one...
Well GM hears about it and they want to do something too, they also work with PPG, so my guy calls me, very excited, and tells me that GM wants to pull out all the stops, no budget, just make it better than chrysler's stuff...you get the point, was I happy, you know I was. Well to make a long story short, the unoin finds out about it, finds out we're not a union shop, and says we can't do it....They'll do it their selves...Yah right, well it never got done and GM lost out on some free advertising and publicity.
Second story, local politician, VERY pro-union, wants me to do his political signs, but because I'm not a union shop, doesn't wnat me to put my name on them, I said fine, all cash and no reciept, gotta love the money but that shows you what your politicans really think, and this is a state house rep. not a minor position, makes you wonder what the really big boys do behind our backs...
Just my 2 cents
Shawn
-------------------- Shawn Setzer Signs by Shawn 826 Hwy 47 East, Troy, MO Posts: 241 | From: Troy, MO, USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Ha ha - yeah, the union logos are called "Bugs" by a lot of sign folks and print shops. Politicians are famous for wanting a fake bug on their stuff - you make a little black, unreadable blob even worse than Surgeon General lettering so that at a glance it looks like a union shop did the work. It doesn't fool anybody and it's done all the time.
We had to use water base paint at Disney, not because of drying time - they couldn't care less how long it takes to do something - but because they have the insane fear that if you use One Shot everybody will die a horrible death from the lead. They won't be told that O.S. has removed the lead. So for "safety's sake" they want to use Imron on everything that gets sprayed! Go figure
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have a (now long expired) card from the local sign, screen & display union here in Mpls. I was working for a company that was theming a water park and the site was all union. I understand that the union GAVE us cards for the job as a courtesy to us, provided our workers got paid scale when on-site. They have no training program here and are not really a lot of help. My wife is a union tile setter and her union does 10 times what the sign union does as far as training, benefits, wages, etc. Most journeyman tile setters are making more than $32/hr, helpers are pushing $20.
After working with these guys for a while, my wife told me a funny one that sums up her typical day at work (she works with some idiots):
"What do you call a woman who works just as hard as a man?"
(scroll down for answer) . . . . . . . . . . . . A lazy bitch.
posted
I had my green card when I worked for the movie studios. When I did sub contract work for them from my shop, it didn't matter, unless I had employees.
Many years back, a friend was lettering and doing a large tire pictorial on a side wall for this tire dearler. A guy walked up and asked Bill if he did the layout for that job and could he get his address. Bill soon received a union card in the mail and paid the dues because he was curious.
Soon he got a call from a painting contractor that needed a union sign shop to do some work in a mall addition being constructed. That was over thirty years ago and Bill has a shop that keeps a few guys employed just doing stuff at that mall, and all because of that union connection.
PS. I find it interesting that we're discussing unions on Labor Day. (AFL/CIO Day)
[ September 02, 2002, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Rick Sacks ]
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6812 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Twenty years ago, we were providing signs for a national account that put their franchises in food courts in malls. Texas is a right-to-loaf (they call it "right-to-work") state and the construction company that built the stores was non union.
When the project manager went to a union state to build out one store, he had to hire a union person for $140 to screw the legs onto the ice maker and hire a union electrician for $120 to plug it into the wall socket.
He finally started coming in at night after the union goof offs had quit milking the clock and got more done each night himself than the whole union crew had gotten done during the day. He played really ignorant when questions arose about how work was mysteriously getting done.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5107 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I remember when hiring had to be done through the union hall. A friend needed help on a big gold job and called the hall for a gold man. The guy they sent was a wall dog and knew nothing about gold. He needed to be paid half a days wage and sent on his way. Next day they sent another genious without gold skills and he needed to be paid. Gold man arrived on day three and did the job with acumen.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6812 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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My apprenticeship was made available thru Denver Local 1045 and I remained a member in good standing for about a year after I pulled my journeyman card.
As a third year apprentice the union decided to trade my "High time" (extra wages for going up over 30 feet)for a 25 cent raise "across the board" for everyone.
To make a long story short the union got beat down to a nickel raise and I lost my "high time" (a big deal at the time...all I did was work high on Pepsi walls and grain elevators)
At the end of the first week I looked over my check and found no nickel raise...when I asked about it I was informed "Only the journeyman got the full nickel ...apprentices got less per each year.(my raise was 3 cents)
One nite I attended a union meeting and asked about the raise and why we got "shorted" and was told I misunderstood...and the term "across the board" meant all journeymen (I was livid)I remember telling the buisness agent if I were in line with a journeman buying bread and it was 32 cents a loaf (remember this was 30 years back) did he really believe the store would discount my purchase because I was an apprentice?
Well It told me what I needed to know about unions and I stayed a member in good stead til I finished my apprenticeship and then never looked back as I took a job at "Over scale and working a four day work week" for a non union shop.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
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My wife does several trade shows at the DC convention center. Everyone's display is taken to a back loading dock and left for the union workers to bring into the convention hall so she can set it up. It's a 50lb "roll-up" velcro backboard. She takes it there by herself, but it takes two 250lb guys to move it 50 ft. to her spot.
Last week she wanted to leave one hour early, but was told no way, union guys won't lift a finger until after 4 pm.
So, 500 trade show people stood in line until midnight waiting until they got thier 50lb displays.
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IAFF Local 2881. It's a little different than other trade unions, but I have to say that I can't recall a bad experience that I'd contribute to the union.
-------------------- Jeff Bailey Rapid Tac Inc. Grants Pass, Oregon Posts: 231 | From: Grants Pass, Oregon, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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I was in the Teamsters in Montreal. When it came time for our contract to be re-negotiated, on that day my shop foreman was sick, and called the business agent to tell him to re-schedule. He didn't- he and the Company and their lawyers all met, and unbelievably he signed off on the contract with NO PERSON FROM THE LABOUR POOL AT THE MEETING!! And co-incidentally, three weeks later he went to Florida for two weeks. DId I mention that we didn't get one concession!?! LESS of a raise than our previous contract, and he signed for 5 YEARS- every other contract before that was 2-3 years... Whatr a bunch of shysters. We were making the highest wages of any shop like ours in Montreal, so that was one good thing, but the guys were all a bunch of wussies sitting around talking about who wasn't in the room. Needless to say, that whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth. I know there are some good unions out there, and that they can serve a purpose, but some are just blatant crooks....
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you Posts: 359 | From: NS Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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