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Statistically, child snatchings are down this year. Media publicity might have you think otherwise. Still, the fact that it happens is very disturbing to all us sane folks.
Do you do anything in particular to ensure your child's safety when they are out of eyesight?
I have my kids take one of those two-way long range radios with them on bikerides, and I keep the other one so we can stay in contact...and they can alert me to trouble.
I have also sent them with a personal size can of "pepper spray" for defense. I wish it was legal to have "police grade" mace...because I'm not sure the public grade is effective.
I also tell my kids to never get into a car with someone who stops even if they are pointing a gun at them. In that case, I tell them to run quickly away in a zig-zag pattern....because statistically, someone with a handgun is very unlikely to hit you, even at close range, and especially against a moving target.
Also, only 3% of single shot gun wounds are fatal, and 85% of single shot gun wounds DO NOT even require medical attention. So the overwhelming odds are with the kids saying, "up yours" and fleeing.
We also have our kids call us when they arrive at a friends house to let us know they are there. I figure if too much time elapses without notification, then I call the friends house to make sure they made it.
posted
Todd....I believe you meant gun shot wounds! NOT stotgun wounds! At close range, a shotgun will make a hole in you big enough to stick your fist into it!!!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
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Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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My children are 32 and 30 years old only because I have kept them both chained to their bedposts after their 9:00 p.m. curfew throughout their entire lives.
I sleep well at night knowing they are locked up home and safe.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
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My daughter is 22 now, when she was younger we lived in rural areas that were fairly crime free, but due to being remote, her after school play usually involved transportation by me or another known parent. The way things are today, I wonder how well I knew those other parents, but all is well. In her teens, she had enough freedoms at home that she could have friends over & I remember the day she asked me if they could smoke a joint in the house. I was caught a little off guard, but stuttered for a minute about how I thought it was good that she trusted me enough to ask & on another day I'd be honored to allow that experience in safety of our home, but with other young friends she had to understand how that made it improper for me to bust out a joint. She laughed & said, we have our own dad, I just wanted to know if we had to step out in the snow or not!
Guess I want to add now that she safely got in, & then out of the experimental years, is now a mature & responsible young adult who is 4 months away from a degree in photo communication & already having some success as an artist.Most of the above acomplishments came at least a decade faster for her then her father, the degree I may never have. Tiva's digital creations
[ August 30, 2002, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
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Oops, that was supposed to read single gun, shot wounds. Hehehe.
I grew up out in farmland USA. We lived on a dead end dirt road. Small town with one "Little House on the Prairie" style country store. Late one night a couple of city slickers brought a girl down our road and took turns raping her.
One of the guys didn't notice his wallet fell out of his pants when he yanked them back up. They left the girl naked, who picked up the wallet and went to a neighbors house and called the police. Needless to say, these "gentlemen' are in the big-house.
Yeah, you have to allow freedom...but it doesn't hurt to worry a little either.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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My point would be to "allow freedom" in safety of your home or in your presence, to cut down somewhat on the risks of the greater unknown when kids need to seek out the seedier side of life to get out from under strict parents.
I'm all for worrying & it does not end when kids are 22 either. My daughter had intended to spend her final year in college in Italy. That was scary for me, & plenty of fatherly advice started coming out on that idea last year. Reports following 9-11 spoiled that plan for her, but I was somewhat relieved.
[ August 30, 2002, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
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Todd We do most of what you said, two-way radios, call from a friends house when spending the night or going over there to play when they get there, and of couse, [b]TALKING WITH THEM[/i], too many parents talk "to" thier children.
We also have them "Check-In" on a regular basis. And this is done in person, not by phone unless they have a good reason and permission to do so by phone, i.e. the friend lives far enough away this is not feesable, etc.
-------------------- Troy "Metalleg" Haas 626 Kingswood Dr Evansville,In 47715 Posts: 1100 | From: Evansville,Indiana, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Although my boys are all away from home now at school or the armed forces, the approach we took from an early age was to educate them in a manner that we as parents could be assured they understood that under no circumstances were they to talk to, answer questions or enter into any type social interaction with psychopathic type individuals. The word psychopath stuck in their minds and it was a big joke once they were old enough to understand. As small children they would often tell strange adults they were not allowed to talk to psychopaths,when strangers tried to strike up a conversation.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Totally off topic here, but Tim's post reminded me of a childhood incident. My sister, who had was a special ed. kid, with different social skills & challenges, approached this adult by a public dock on the remote Lake Temagami in Ontario where our family spent summers on our small island. She had noticed him tossing a ciggerate butt & proceeded to announce "only thoughtless clods would throw a ciggerate in the lake" having heard my dad mutter this in private at some point in the past. She was about 6 or 7, so no offense was taken, & in fact this opened the door to his assisting us, as we were on the public dock due to need of accessing some sort of part for the outboard moter, & he helped us out with a ride somewhere. I'm sure he picked up that butt, & maybe thought a second or 2 about continuing that habit.
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Children today need to know thats its not only ok to fight back for themselves,its a necessity.They need to be told flat out that people who take children take them to hurt them,period. Teach them that it's ok to disobey an adult they don't know,not to trust adults who ask them for help finding lost pets,ask for street directions,run in the opposite direction of a car that stops and attempts to contact them....be aware of their surroundings no matter where they are and to stop and tell an adult whenever ANYTHING doesn't look/seem right...they have better powers of observation than you ever wana give them,don't discourage them from using them,encourage them,it may mean the difference between life or death That if they're put in a car against their will do anything they can to try to escape even if it means jumping from the moving vehicle,kicking out or disconnecting a taillight if they are in the trunk,grab the wheel and crash the car,jam the shifter into park,blow the horn..ANYTHING..and yes your child can be hurt or worse trying to escape. Part of keeping your child safe is you as a parent asking yourself hard questions that you may not necessarily want to,but you need to think about...things like whether or not you would rather see your child injured or worse in an attempt to fight and get away from the sonofabitch who took em, or injured or dead after 3 days of being raped,buried alive,tortured,you get the idea. Remember...broken bones can be fixed,but once they're in the abductor's control,nothing good is going to happen from that point on,they should scream,holler,throw things,run,bite,kick pinch etc,anything at all to get away or alert others to what is going on. They also need to know what's appropriate behavior and whats not between adults and children in as much detail as necessary.Kids intuitively know who they can trust and who they can't more often than adults,b/c their heads aren't full of the politically correct BS thats force fed adults nowdays,they don't know how to lie yet,they only know how to be honest....thats why you need to be honest with them as to what can happen to them and they will be honest with you about whether or not someone has tried to hurt them,touch them or whatever. Virtually any sheriff or police dept has childrens awareness programs,don't be afraid to send them or have them come out and talk with the kids. *substitute all the to's in this to 'with',just caught what troy said *
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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Just a thing I don't read here, may be I over looked it.
Statistically the biggest part of abuse, violence and killing against children come from people they know: relatives, aquaintances of their parents, neighbors, etc. The recent two children killing in the UK was commited by the janitor of their school.
-------------------- Desire Rusovsky SDG Signs rue du Lac 24 1342 Le Pont Switzerland desire@sdgsigns.com http://www.sdgsigns.com Posts: 218 | From: Le Pont / Switzerland | Registered: Mar 2002
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Hey Todd, I have sprayed folks with pepper spray a couple of time and it is not a manstopper by any means. It really just made them mad if anything. There is one type you used to be able to buy that I switched to but haven't gotten any in a while or ever sprayed a person with and that is Mace brand pepper foam. A lot of police use it. It foams up a few seconds after impact and sticks like glue plus it also stains the sprayees face with dye. Once foamed up, it is virtually impossible to get off immediatly.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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Wrong....most police do not use pepperfoam...too slow acting and you will get it thrown back at you or your kids...if you or anyone else were wanting to learn more about OC spray and how yourself or your kids could use it safely you might read http://optionsforpersonalsecurity.com/articles/yeager/pepper.html
just my $.59
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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An excellent deterent and good protection for kids of any age, is a big ass dog that they've grown up with. Labs, in particular just love kids, and I've seen a few that would gladly lay down their own lives, to defend their young masters/mistresses from any kind of harm. Any potential abductor will think twice before trying to grab a kid that has a big dog nearby that's obviously watching out for them. A dog that can open them up for 20 or so stitches is a mighty big reason to ignore that kid, and move on. If the dog does this just once, they've rightfully earned their keep, and they also have a keen sense of just who's a threat, and who isn't. If your kids like animals, they can have a playmate, friend, and defender, all in one package.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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.44-40 built on a graveyard frame, shoots tombstone bullets, balls and chains. Both mine take martial arts and are well versed about what to do and not do. Last night, I pick up my 15 year old from a class, and he wanted something to drink. He went in to the convience store for an icee, while I waited outside. There were some guys he didn't like the way they were acting. He had just finished getting the self-serve icee and saw the guy pulling at his pants at the beltline like he had something in the belt. My son walked to the counter and put the icee on the counter in front of the cashier and walked out the door. He came to the truck and got in and told me what, he saw and felt. We left.
posted
We took Ken Henrys approach a couple a weeks ago and got a 10 week old lab. The idea was for him to grow up with the kids (7,4 & 2yr old) and to be a protector for them.But i still don't take my eyes off them when there outside with me. It only takes two seconds when your not paying attention.
Later in life when there older, they need the freedom with there friends, all of your ideas are wonderfull and will use them. As a parent we are responsible for their safe up bringing. If I fail I didn't do my job as a parent.
Rob
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Rob Carney Gorrie, Ontario
-------------------- Robert Carney Fergus, Ontario Posts: 131 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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DONT TRUST ANYONE or ANYTHING! alone with your children for one second. I know some kids, friends of our family, who were sexually molested by their own grandfather. I know of kids who were attacked, mauled and some killed by the family dog. My wife's niece had her arm almost ripped off by a Rottweiler which aslo bit her all over her other arm and face and the Wife's nephew was bitten on the head, by another Rottweiler. A boy in our town was attacked and killed by his neighbor's pit bull. It ripped his throat out. One of my neighbors HAD a chow which attacked our beagle and ripped her up pretty bad. The next time he came over, he growled at my 8 year old son. The THIRD time he came over(after several warnings and a call to the sheriff's department to no avail) I felt that I had no choice but to kill the dog and did. Labs may be OK in general but any breed of dog can be aggressive. Don't say "my dog would never do that" Don't say "my kid's little league coach, preacher, priest, whatever would not do that" That's baloney. You don't know what a dog (or human) will do. Don't take chances with your kids. Don't let them out of your sight.
[ September 03, 2002, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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I have a 6-month old girl. I will teach her three things. 1) Look all who apporach in the eye. I heard that would-be attackers are less inclined to jump if they know you have a good idea of their appearance, and 2)Go for the eyes and 3)go for the groin. It seems as if most attackers are adult (physically) males, and these are the two most readily-struck areas which when attacked cause involuntary defensive reactions or incapacitation. In Canada you can't carry anything except a toothpick or it's illegal, so I have the choice of importing some spray or getting her self-defence lessons. I think I'll do both.
You never know how close you can come to this- Just like Santo, my wife and baby girl and I went to Blockbuster this Sunday (2 PM!!) and as I'm bending over to take Emily out of the carseat, I hear the door swing open, and footsteps come pitter-patter out the door- Didn't register. Then as I stand up, the store supervisor and a customer come bombing out the door after him, and yell "keep running, the police are on the way and we got a good look at your face!" If I had made that last red light I may have been in the middle of that. Who knows? If he is stupid enough to steal movies (he didn't hold the place up, I found out), what else would he have done? My wife was petrified.
It's not the same as the above situations, but it makes you realize how fast these situations arise.
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you Posts: 359 | From: NS Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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I realize that alot of people just can't do it but one of the best ways to protect your kids is to teach them at home. If possible, take them to the shop with you. Our kids are homeschooled so they aren't taught the "scientific fact" that they evolved from monkeys (although sometimes I wonder about my youngest) or that the Universe spontaneously created itself out of nothing. They will be deprived of all of this profound "knowledge" but at least they won't end up illiterate. And, as a bonus, they won't have to worry about some disturbed kid bringing a gun to school or some pervert teacher trying to molest them. Oh, and I've already heard it numerous times: "they won't know how to interact with other people when they get out on their own". Well, our kids certainly don't have any problems with it now. We go WITH THEM to outings and they are very active in 4-H and in their church. Our youngest, especially, has never met a stranger and all three of them have many friends and make friends readily.
As someone mentioned, talk WITH your kids. DO things with them. Know where they are and who they are with at ALL times. Oh, and I still hold my 9-year-old's hand in public places.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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A thread I have followed with interest, and held off replying to, just to see what others had to say.
My own three sons were raised by their mother, courtesy of a divorce when they were very small. She did a good job, and the two who are still living have turned out well. Since I wasn't involved for the most part, take what I say with a large grain of salt.
Protecting your kids is a "coin" with so many sides and angles that books have been written on the subject
Where to begin----- maybe a starting point would be-- Don't overdo it to the point of paranoia on everyones part--yours and the kids. At some time in their lives a degree of trust in others has to come along. They cannot be kept in a hermetically sealed environment forever.
People guilty of molestation--- those mentioned above; relatives, teachers, clergy, etc.-- probably true to a greater or lesser extent. To paint all with the same broad brush though, is IMHO a mistake. How does one tell the good guys from the bad? I have no idea.
Another side to the issue is from the viewpoint of one who was in the health care profession for well over twenty years, and had a lot of contact with kids. I feel that nowadays anyone who has any kind of contact with children in a professional capacity is highly at risk for accusations of improper behavior. e.g. Once upon a once, some parents both of whom were college professors, brought their two year old child into the ER with an ill-defined illness. First thing the doctor would ask (me) is what is this kids temperature. This was years ago, before electronic thermometers. With a two year old the only accurate way to get this was with a glass thermometer in the rear end------ and it had to be held in place for three minutes. Improper touching, or does the child make a sudden move and fall off the exam table?
On hearing this, the parents went through twenty questions starting with-----is this really necessary? Well, yes. Can't you put it under his tongue? No, because you can't trust a two year old not to bite it off. Can't you place it in the groin, or armpit? Yes, but it takes at least ten minutes to get an accurate reading, and even then you are not sure.
So, given all this, the parents start explaining to this little kid the difference between "good touch- bad touch", and who can do what, and when. No doubt in my mind this child could have passed a written test on the subject a week later. Finally, I "improperly touched" this little kids butt, placed the thermometer where it would get the right reading in the least amount of time, and wondered forevermore when the accusation would be along.
The point of all this---( yes, there is one in here somewhere)--- protect your kids the best way you can with whatever means at hand, but also instill in them a strong sense of right and wrong. An accusation whether done as a joke, prank, for spite, or any other reason can do immeasurable damage to the accused. Then the question becomes who protects the adults from the kids.
Thanks for wading through all this, and we'll leave the light on for you.
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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ive sprayed a few people myself, and i would have to say,,
If properly sprayed very few people will stand up to a proper spraying.. But it must be doen right and i dotn know very many people can do it right.
I never carry foam, i dotn want to wait for it to work, i need it to work instantly so i use the aerosol spray. Makes em gag and hack right away...
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Hey Bill, I see nothing wrong with using a rectal thermometer on a child that small. I have seen it done to my babies (remember, I don't leave mine alone with strangers) and I doubt that any of them have any recollection of it or any psychological repercussions for that matter. I would however insist that the child's parents AND a nurse, orderly, or other associate be present.
From what I have observed it is pretty much common practice now, in the medical profession, and others, to have a witness present during any procedure such as this especially where children and the opposite sex are involved. The danger of being sued is very real and no matter if you are, and are found to be, completely innocent you will have a blight on your name for the rest of your life. That's the thing: Don't let yourself be caught in a precarious situation. Insist on at least one witness.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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You are absolutely right on insisting a witness, or parent(s) be present when these various things involving children are happening. The same was true for anyone that showed signs of ----- well, flakiness for want of a better term.
Whenever GYN type exams had to be done--(spontaneous abortions, cases of rape, etc.) I made it a point to get someone of the female persuasion into the room as a witness--usually the night supervisor. Rape cases also had a strict protocol for handling evidence collected, and a stricter protocol for handing it off to police officers. Much signing for, etc.
Auto accidents with industrial strength trauma almost always required that the trauma team be called in, even before the ambulance(s) arrived. Witnesses all over the place. Sometimes the biggest trick was triaging to sort out who needed immediate attention, and who could wait.
And then there were those self-important types, similar to the twit in Cam's story who HAD to be taken care of right now, even if it was nothing more than a hangnail. Used to love that type.
Anyway-----witnesses, yes, always. We used to call it CYA or CYB---cover yer fill in the blank.
What has this to do with signs? Nothing, but it was an OT post.
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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Saw a documentary last week about some town in Washington State I believe. Some pr!ck cop started this whole sexual abuse ring scandel. He had adopted a girl with known history of false abuse accusations. Then he started rounding up victims she accused. Then he pressured kids from the same church to also "remember" things. One of these kids told a shrink (sorry can't spell that psycho word)that she lied to the police, so when that was reported, the shrink was jailed for sexual abuse. Oh yeah, forgot to mention how he pressured her was that he would arrest her Mom if she didn't accuse the church. After she told the shrink it was a lie, The cop arrested the Mom for sexual abuse.
I guess this all happened 5 or more years ago. Many lives were ruined. Some victims of the cops lies won huge settlements against the State years later. Attempts to pin charges on the cop failed though, due probably to his ill-gained power, &/or whoever he is "in bed with" in the local politics.
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