posted
What is everyone using for painting HDU Signs. I have been using Matthews which sprays nicely for backgrounds and rolls and brushes well for letters. I like it but its really expensive and I know others have good luck with latex and oil base paints... Also what about clear coat?
-------------------- We get you noticed Henry Edmonds X-treme Signs & Graphics South Hill, VA xtremesigns@yahoo.com Posts: 142 | From: South Hill, Va. | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I can't speak to the spraying aspect as I have always hand brushed...but I have always used Sherwin Williams acrylic latex with never a failure...I do a lot of blends and fades so I will mist across the colors before brush blending them together...this gives me extra dry time and the blending goes smoother...also most everything I do in hdu has simulated woodgrain background so I prefer to use flat paints that give a more natural look...will sometimes use semi gloss on the letters for a little extra pop but still prefer the softer look I get with non gloss paints...jusy my personal preference.
posted
We use Sherwin Williams top end acrylic house paint with great success. We do not clear anything.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I prime with Zinser Bullseye bonding primer. It's pretty awesome - do 2 coats, sand between coats.
It's an oil base primer but it dries really fast and is designed to be covered with latex or oil-based finish.
I always used the latex Zinser Bullseye primer 'til I tried this stuff.
I did not believe latex would stick to,oil base primer - but I once used it on a kitchen cabinet-painting job and the results were amazing!
I still use the latex sometimes, but prefer the oil-base bonding primer for just about everything.
I even tried it on a couple of spots on my old linoleum floor months ago - it's not peeling or scuffin' off at all!!
I'm not sure what you consider expensive ...? If the Zinser was $60 a gal. I would still consider it valuable - but it's around $35 or $40 a gal.
Performance over price is priority with me.
If you have a great product that works well PARTICULARLY with paint, even if it's expensive, figure it into your bid or quote.
If your customer is too nitty to see the value & performance difference between an additional 20 to 35 bux ... Well ... I say . . . 'screw them.' As in - See ya.
Sorry. That is NOT the southern, sugary-sweet hospitable velvet I have spoiled every human being with all my life.
The fact is, I've grown too old and been in this biz so long - I'm just about done with tryin' to explain the value of quality materials to people until they finally 'get it'.
And don't get me started on chintzy, sleazy, cheezy tire kickers...
Yep. I done paid my dues, established my business, and coulda started tellin' certain customers what I really think YEARS ago ...
Gee Henry ... all ya did was ask about paint . . .
Disclaimer:
This rant was NOT directed at Henry or any other 'head - it was in all actuality a 'vent' bc I really don't 'go off' on customers . . . at least, not to the full extent I would like to . . . thank you for this forum opportunity to release these issues into the 'ears' of you chosen few who TOTALLY 'get it'.
posted
I dont consider that pricy at all.. The matthews paint mixed to color is about $85.00 per quart not counting reducer and catalyst. Its a great product but may be overkill o a sign like this not sure.. I am all about quality and would never sacrifice it but if I can use latex or oil base paints and hold up as well as this I am all for it
-------------------- We get you noticed Henry Edmonds X-treme Signs & Graphics South Hill, VA xtremesigns@yahoo.com Posts: 142 | From: South Hill, Va. | Registered: Jun 2001
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But I will say, great prep is just as important to the finish coats. A sorry primer & primer application will affect your finish. A great prep will too!
I also,sand between coats on finish too - I love to watch each successive coat get smoother, and shinier if hi-gloss is desired...
I use various things depending on,interior or exterior. My favourite paint is SW eurethane industrial enamel - it holds it's colour longer -it's hi gloss too.
I like industrial enamel over most exterior house paints, but this depends on whether the finish will be flat, satin, or gloss.
I also like the rustoleum rollable- brushable. But - colours are limited.
Also - since it's only been available for a few years now, I'm watching the performance.
I made a great burgundy with the dark red & medium blue - 2 years in all-day sun now, the paint appears to be 'darkening' a little but retaining gloss.
I don't clear coat -altho every customer & their cousin asks about it.
Most clears will just yellow. Those that don't yellow will crack due to frequent expansion/contraction of HDU (when exterior)
With interior sign, no need to clear obviously.
Hows that for concise ...
Ditto other replies too.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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I tell the customer that "not clear coating" is a service I can offer them free...and they won't be charged...and if they will dig the holes I won't charge for that either...but if they start designing the sign for me...well that doesn't work...and they will be charged for wasting my time.
posted
Thoroughly enjoyed reading every post in this thread, even though I haven't made a sign in several years.
And Sheila, you should consider writing after your brushes wear out. You have a Mark Twainish style about you. Seriously.
Posts: 4084 | From: ... | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I agree that, generally, a clear coat shortens the life of a finish. But polyurethanes like Matthews are not that way. Top coating Matthews colors with Matthews clear extends the life of the paint by about 50%. At least, that's what they told us at the Matthews paint school.
Has anyone tried Sher-Cryl high perforfance acrylic from Sherwin Williams? It seems to get much harder than normal water based acrylic. It's about $65 a gallon. I coated out a metal wall with it before lettering with Nova colors and did a tape test in some spots. It sticks like crazy. I've never seen a latex perform so well. Of course, time will tell. It's only about two years old right now.
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I'm probably going the Sherwin Williams route as well. I've been using Porter but I've heard it's been sold and I can't get it locally any more.
Sheila, I'm surprised you thought latex would not work well over oil base primer. It's been the preferred method to use oil base primer on wood siding, window casings and trim with latex top coat for a long time.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I'm about to do a Couple of HDU signs as well.. Its been a few years, I'm going to use sherman williams as a top coat, but what would you recommend for primer? Timely Post!
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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But my brain just wouldn't wrap around it - I had all these rigid rules in my head like; 'Oil & water don't mix' 'Oil ON latex NEVER visa-versa'
I knew housepainters did use this - but I just stuck with my pattern for years.
And terrible experiences set me in stone for a long time - I lettered a few 'fresh painted' walls in my early sign-biz days where someone painted over oil-base paint with latex - and later it peeled and all was ruined.
I'm still totally anal about it now - you wouldn't believe how I badger customers with questions when they say, 'When we get the building painted come do yer thang!'
I'm like, "WHO'S painting it? Who painted it before? What kind of paint did they use previously? Will they test it? Don't waste your money & my time having it done wrong!!! Call - (insert short list of best paint contractors)"
And if they say - We just painted the building - we want you to ..."
omg
Then I just go off more -
"WHO did you let paint it? Did they test the old coat? What kind of paint was on there when you got the building? You don't know???!! Then call the previous owner and find out! Research-research-research! Don't waste your money & my time . . ."
And this is not to mention reputation & artistic integrity - because everyone and their friends cousins will go around sayin' SHEILA painted that wall and now it's peeling ... just because I was the last person seen painting on the previously oil-base finished wall that some jack-leg house painter pressure washed with soapy water and rolled out two thick coats of latex - and yeh, it LOOKED good for a few months ...
Neil - I adequately outlined primer in a previous reply - keep up! (lol)
quote:Originally posted by Neil D. Butler: I'm about to do a Couple of HDU signs as well.. Its been a few years, I'm going to use sherman williams as a top coat, but what would you recommend for primer? Timely Post!
HDU actually doesn't need a primer. I use the water-based FSC88 because I can get a smoother finish that way.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Wayne's comment makes me smile for we only use FSC88 primer when we want MORE texture. By using a small brush and putting the thick primer on heavy we realize some very nice textures -especially for gilding over.
- grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Speaking of HDU, what Pound do think is the best for paint ? No Primer & Filler,
-------------------- Kevin Betz KB Sign Company 21321 Ulrich Clinton Township, MI 48036 kbsigncompany@att.net Posts: 229 | From: Detroit, MI | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Dan Sawatzky: Wayne's comment makes me smile for we only use FSC88 primer when we want MORE texture. By using a small brush and putting the thick primer on heavy we realize some very nice textures -especially for gilding over.
- grampa dan
Yes, a very versatile product. I apply a smooth, even coat, then wet-sand with automotive sandpaper. Spray or brush acrylic latex...smooth as a baby's behind.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Which primer depends on which brand HDU you are using. FSC88 is best for Precision Board and like the others said is very versatile in making your surface textured or dead smooth. Sign Prime is best for SignFoam 2 and 3. Duna and SignFoam 4 don't need a primer at all. Two coats of any decent latex and it's plenty smooth enough for sign work.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Most of the signs we do People want a smooth finish.. Can all these primers be sprayed? If so can you use HVLP? What tip? Also same with the latex paints? I prefer to spray primer and background colors if possible
-------------------- We get you noticed Henry Edmonds X-treme Signs & Graphics South Hill, VA xtremesigns@yahoo.com Posts: 142 | From: South Hill, Va. | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I spray FSC88 with an HVLP gun with a 2.2mm tip. When dry, wet-sand with 320 or 400 grit automotive paper using a rubber sanding block on any flat surfaces. Rinse off with water, let dry till the next day.
For latex paint I use the same gun with a 1.4mm tip, and thinned to 1 pint per gallon.
For background color on sandblasted signs, I spray straight latex; no primer needed. I used to spray backgrounds with opaque latex stain, but quit because it chalks and fades too fast.
[ August 02, 2016, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I prime with a water based primer (Jay Cooke's) because I like the way the paint finish looks with a primer base (a more solid/full looking finish).
I spray primer and paint with an HVLP gun with a 2.2 mm tip.
Primer and paint is thinned with water (about 1-2 oz's water for 8-10 oz's paint). (pending paint).
I don't sand, as I don't want a smooth/glossy surface. Too smooth of a finish takes away from the softness of a dimensional sign.
I spray gloss, or soft gloss paint and after it's dry, it has a nice satin finish.
The higher the gloss, the better the durability.
Best luck, Bob
-------------------- "The 3-4 minute mark of "Freewill" by Rush.
Bob Kaschak Artisan Sign And Design Peru New York Posts: 1873 | From: Upstate NY | Registered: Jul 2002
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