There are so few posts and interactions compared to the past. Years ago, there would be multiple responses to posts and lots more members interacting. There would be lots of posts in the portfolio table section, now I see very few.
What can we do to get back the letterheads that used to be more involved?
How can we recruit new ones?
I would like to see a letterville revival. That sounds like a mission: "Letterville Revival"
[ June 06, 2015, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Jeff Wisdom ]
-------------------- Jeff Wisdom SignWorks info@oregonsignworks.com Posts: 450 | From: Oregon | Registered: Dec 2005
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nobody is painting..........and NONE WANT TO LEARN HOW anymore..........so we are a dying breed sorta like "buggy whips"hehehehehehehehe. most of the shops that print now.......are cranking out mostly mundane run of the mill signage, and the public today.......are not interested in fantastically well designed and executed signage. i shake my head at some of the crap that is produced by people who have NO ARTISTIC ABILITY....and think of sign as nothing more the words in a sentence....like why do they put LOWER CASE letters on a banner??? really dumb....when it should say GRAND OPENING..... they do Grand Opening....... and the printers use the old adage, if you cant dazzle em with your brilliance ..just baffle em WITH A JUNKED UP.......BACKGROUND)))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I totally agree. Even though I don't have the skill (yet) to hand letter I still create mostly dimensional hand made work. The local new start up shops here produce garbage and are not even aware of it. Any one can purchase a vinyl cutter and produce letters. It takes a sign artist and professional to make an attractive, effective and quality sign. You are right, people don't want to pay for quality, just fast and cheap.
-------------------- Jeff Wisdom SignWorks info@oregonsignworks.com Posts: 450 | From: Oregon | Registered: Dec 2005
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OP there is alot of truth to those statments.
It seems the really skilled are better suited to work their own shop & as long as they deal with marketing themselves well the rest is just living good.
Really does not matter modern ways or old ways, marketing is huge key to success as well as skill to back it up at the right pace & ability to provide good service to customer & community.
Believe you deal with most to all that it takes the sign industry is still awesome & plenty want in.
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I'm not doing nearly as many signs as I used to. Since buying the company last year and changing directions, I just don't have the time I used to have.
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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In a way, getting older has been a good thing for me. Since I'm actually beyond "retirement age", I really feel no pressing need to "HAVE TO" make X number of dollars a week; and am focusing on doing more custom and personally satisfying jobs, hand-lettering, and getting back to my pinstriping, for a small number of faithful local customers.
That's been one of the good things that technology, computers, and 'anybody can do a sign' logic of today has done for me. There are a couple of local "quickee" shops around; so I usually send the crappo stuff to them....giving me more time to do my thing, and get some home projects done for the wifee.
Facebook is totally unappealing to me. The kids and grandkids hounded me for a long time to join, so I did.......and regretted it immensely. It was interesting to see the "friends" that showed up; but there were also some "friends" that showed up that I really didn't care to see or hear from ever again. KnowwhatImean? And I didn't want to waste my time, reading about whose cat broke it's tail in the screen door, or how bad someone's toenail fungus was, or having "No-name Charlie" (someone I had no clue who it was) want to be my friend, or.... So I deactivated my account. Peace, in my Inbox, at last. It's much more personally satisfying to me, to have someone call and actually talk to them, or send an email.
I do try to post here regularly, or sometimes on a couple of other sites; but feel extremely blessed to be able to step back and really enjoy the work I love to do......and be able to take a day off, if the wifee wants to go to the mall, or if I just want to go sit on a lake-bank somewhere, with a fishing pole and a small cooler, and just be thankful to God, for giving me the talents he has given, the friends I've made along the way, and this crazy life I've had, shared and loved, along with youall here.
posted
This site has always been geared towards traditional sign work. digital stuff almost frowned upon by some. Like it or not, the traditional hand lettering is in diminishing demand, probably similar to blacksmiths, cobblers etc. Sad but true. Only logical there will be fewer posters. Perhaps promote a separate section for digital chat?
-------------------- Kevin Gaffney Artistik Signs Kinnegad County Westmeath Ireland 044-75187 kevingaffney@eircom.net Posts: 628 | From: Ireland | Registered: Oct 2003
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Letterheads has always been the best of the best and I have always felt humbled to be part of it, be it a lesser role now and as a former windshield painter. I celebrate the wonderful friendships I have made here, but honestly, we are all growing older and less active and younger members are just not participating. It is a sad thing in many ways, but that is just how life works. All my dad's friends are gone. Many of mine have succumbed to some life removed from the past. Heck, I even quit lettering and own an art gallery and paint landscapes all the time. www.mccallfineart.com Steve brought us so much inspiration, bless his heart. One by one we are all passing the maul stick to those who think all caps old english script is ok. Do I miss hand lettering 2" helvetica from memory or using a pounce wheel? No way. We all merged off into our own lives and yes, I still miss all of you!
If nothing else it is a great place we all can complain about old age and crummy signs. I have truly enjoyed coming here every day and seeing and hearing about all of you. Some fabulous talent and we all know it is fading. Did we all enjoy the fellowship? You betcha!
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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I just heard them girls say,,,,,Ohhhh,,,Ewwwwwwwoooowwwww. But back to the question, Yeah, I think it's the darn Facebook. But I'm still hear.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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I thought computers were the inevitable way the trade was going; so I learned quite a bit about them. I try to live debt free, so I never bought a printer, only cutters. But now I think it's all or none, at least in this region. You have to have rolls of vinyl in stock, and do enough of that work to be fast at it. It hasn't worked so well for me, so now I'm tired of all the layout, send to plotter, cut, weed, apply. I kept remembering what Si would say about all those steps, and now I've pretty much gone back to hand lettering only. That, and fill in the gaps with equipment painting. As far as this site goes, I wonder if it's more than just Facebook. That was just the next step as this one receded. For me, this sort of forum was new, because I was new to the internet. It was SO COOL to be able to have very in depth conversations at one's own convenience. The topic would go on for days, and I could go do a job, sleep for the night, whatever, and come back as though I had been away for 5 minutes. That was new and awesome for me, and I wonder if it was the same for others. Remember the discussions of labor + material vs advertising value we had? Remember the contributions by people like Cam Bortz? Those were the days, but maybe the novelty is wearing off.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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One thing is certain, if you look around, you will find the work of a true professional. They produce the billboard, showcard, hand lettered truck, and gold leaf firetruck, that you can actually read and know what you are reading. I can always tell a computer generated, over done design of an amateur. When I try to read the advertising message, I can't find it. Lost among the jungle of flora and fauna that passes for a background. I would love to have the time to photograph some of this so-called artistic signage. I know many an old time that would turn over in their grave, if they were to witness some of the pure garbage, that is passed off as advertising today. The tragic thing is the owners of such signage think they have the most gorgeous sign in the world. I need to stop now, before I spoil someone's day. May the sword brush and the lettering quill live forever!
-------------------- Donald Miner ABCO Wholesale Neon 1168 Red Hill Creek Dobson, NC Posts: 842 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2006
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I think Facebook is okay to connect with true friends, but I rarely go on there for any business connections. Linked in has helped me and so has Twitter in landing new clients and new projects. I am hoping Letterville will continue on.
-------------------- Jeff Wisdom SignWorks info@oregonsignworks.com Posts: 450 | From: Oregon | Registered: Dec 2005
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Many are on Facebook, for sure. There are also other sites out there that the handletterers and craftsmen have moved onto.
There are plenty of young people out there picking up the old school ways and showing a passion for learning the trade. Look at the young faces in Mike Meyer's hand lettering workshops or Dan Sawatsky's workshops or Dave Smith's gold and glass workshops. It's absolutely making a comeback. Maybe they just don't want to learn from someone who follows the rule "never use lowercase on a banner" exclusively.
posted
The old Letterhead meets have died down from what they used to be. I t was nice to look forward to the annual international meet, that was the best. There were many individual meets held all over, but that became quite expensive to pull off. Now the big thrill for me is the Walldog meets, I try to attend one every year. Here is where you can meet up with all the friends you have made through the years. We still have gold leaf meets, and it is always attended by many. We are hanging in there.
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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People get older & a bit lazier (aka 'more efficient') and perhaps more choosey with their spare time, if they have any...
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Times change, Facebook works for me, one stop and I hit a number of groups. I never really got into the tech side of signs. Times change. It used to be I when the new SignCraft came I would spend days checking every thing out, now I flip though it in ten minutes, everything looks the same, no character at all, no individuality, the same fonts everywhere.........boring from where I sit. I could give a rats ass about the latest router. There are tons of discussions about brushes on Facebook. Watching Glenn work his magic on a Facebook video is fascinating. I'm sure there are plenty of groups for the wrap people on there too.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
I had never heard of Letterheads until I found this site. I was taught "old school" in a traditional sign shop of whom my mentors were only willing to teach technique slowly as they felt the person deserved it. It was a sin to let their "secrets" out of the bag. I learned precision there, but I learned the "pazaaaz" here. Signs were an art form here, full of color and life, wild fonts and very clever layouts.
The world is different now, and it moves too fast for the old ways, and most of us are too tired to run with the changes. I see young designers with very clever ideas and layouts for the printed media. And they have access to the expensive graphic tablets to create on.
The job of an electrician, plumber or welder has changed very little. In my early years I thought my craft would endure like those; I didn't see these changes coming to our craft.
Complicating this was businesses just not willing to spend money on a quality sign. Electricians and Plumbers and Welders seemed to get paid well and didn't seem suffer near as bad by shoddy, cut throat competition. (those guys couldn't pass a test to get a license) but anybody could make a sign.
My advice: Get a fast high quality road bike and ride it daily. Get a Ninja Juicer and juice all those veggies and fruits you would never eat, and drink that daily. Let the world pass by chasing the money, like we did. They will lose it too as their world will change also, in time. Go on S.S. and get a job parking cars or sweeping the floor in some big box store. Be kind to everyone.
I know none of the above has anything to do with making signs, but neither do we anymore, that's the point. We are a dying breed. Happiness isn't based on what we do, its based on how we treat others and the ways in which we help them.
posted
or set up a pottery shop)))))) or rebuild a bathroom!!!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHA [IMG][/IMG]
[ June 11, 2015, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Everyone decides when they want to get off the ride. I know some that are pushing forward painting signs, I'm trying to build a solid business that can and will be sold when I decide to get off the ride. And I'm currently envisioning the perfect person to continue on in the next 15 or so years. Don't get me wrong I still LOVE the old ways and use them when I can. But I can't imagine old sign painters painting just because they loved to paint. those were the tools they had. A lot of sign painters used to paint houses too, how many houses are there to paint anymore? Why aren't sign shops doing vinyl siding? I'm sure when airbrushes came on the scene, those who embraced it were "hacks" to those who blended beautifully with a brush. Given the tools of today you can't tell me most wouldn't have jumped at the chance to embrace them.
[ June 11, 2015, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm thinking that all this whining about technology replacing hand lettering skills is the fault of the sign painting trade itself. More than once I've heard about sign painters that wouldn't let another sign painter anywhere near is work area. They all kept everything a secret. As skilled hand letterers became more and more scarce, the Letterhead movement was born, and probably about 3 decades too late. Why did they become scarce? Old school? Only taught the technique if they felt the person deserved it? Wanted to limit competition?
Why didn't the sign painting trade demand licensing of the craft? You talk about electricians, carpenters, plumbers..... all licensed. Technology was bound to create an easy way for people that couldn't execute or didn't want to learn hand lettering. But you don't need to know how to hand letter to create good design. Not all hand letters were masters of design either. So this technology puts equipment into the hands of anyone that thinks sign making is an easy way to get rich. Yep, upsetting to those with skills. I wonder how long ago that traditional sign painters bitched about their peers that started using that "factory made paint in a can" instead of making their own? Damn technology.
I think Rochon is right. Progressive tradesmen use the tools available to them. Even log home builders don't build anymore using all hand tools. Yes there is a ton of pride at painting a precision letter with a quill. But my customers would come back complaining about a sign that only lasted 3 years painted with that poor excuse of a paint called One Shot.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I became a hapless loser and got a real job... LOL!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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I've stood next to Bruce while he was lettering. A true master of the craft. Too bad they made your paint something to disdain. BTW Bruce, I still have that panel with your alphabet you painted for me. Thanks again.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I can agree with George as well as some of the other comments. I have no employees, I have a home based business and relatively low overhead compared to my local friends/competitors.
I do cut vinyl when necessary, which for some clients is quite often. At this stage in my career I am not going to even consider printing/laminating etc. in house.
I am now working on a photo wrap on two large garage doors. I always charge for the design time separate from the actual 'job'. I was handed two cd's full of hi res photos and the client realizes that there is time involved here before any thing gets printed.
Many times I can complete a job quicker and for a lot less out-of-pocket $ with paint. If the job warrants vinyl or prints and the job would be an easy install, I can cut vinyl or purchase printing wholesale and still make a decent profit. If someone asks if I do the printing, I just say a friend in Detroit does it for me.
-------------------- Curt Stenz Graphics 700 Squirrel Lane Marathon, WI 54448 Posts: 590 | From: Marathon, WI 54448 | Registered: Dec 1998
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I'm still designing digital prints, cutting vinyl, and making dimensional signs but sold all the sandblasting equipment over a year ago. I just use the router now. And I'm still working on my CNC foam cutter design. Maybe I'll have it making monument signs in a month or so.
[ June 12, 2015, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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I make more money than I ever did running my shop... I have health insurance, short and long disability, 401K w/ employer match, and life insurance.
I sit in an air conditioned office.. wear my Sony noise cancelling headphones whilst jamming on my hand picked tunes list (no streaming audio is allowed)...
I feel no shame taking care of myself. {D>
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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I hear ya bruce- A few months back I took a graphic designer job at a large collegiate screen printing company… they have access to tools and equipment I could only dream of in my small screen setup. A few months ago I was promoted to art director and have 3 other "really young" artists under me. Part of the process is helping teach them skills that they did not learn from a book or in a classroom. We also have a large format digital printer/cutter, so I have been teaching the others design fundamentals of sign making. I still have my own shop and have done a few projects, but I am glad I made the move. I know this site's attendance and participation has declined over the years- I don't think it is one single thing, it is just a result of a lot of smaller things over time- even losing some great artist/craftsmen over the years.
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1735 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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no dennis....as usual you cant tell a cup from a schit pot......hahahahahahahahaha this is a schit pot)))) YES THEY ARE BOTH CLAY... and fired in a kiln))))) but now you know thew differance))))) [IMG][/IMG]
[ June 14, 2015, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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For now Rusty decides to make a wise decision and keep his opinion to himself about Joe's pottery and his bathroom...but Dennis...that was a good one.
posted
SOMEBODY.......needs ta slap ya ..."bald headed"......OH seems they already did))))))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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