posted
I installed a sign in late January 2013. Drove by the other day and the vinyl is cracked all over. I've never seen anything like it. it looks like a mudflat which has dried up and left little "polygons" all over with wide cracks between them and it looks like it has been that way for a good while. I'm surprised the customer hasn't called. Anyway, contacted the customer service rep for the manufacturer and he's telling be that particular color is only rated for three years, instead of 7. But it says nothing about that in the color catalog. And he only offered a "credit" or to replace enough vinyl to re-do the job. We'll see how it goes but I may be changing vinyl brands after this. I will wait and see what they're going to do before disclosing the brand of the vinyl.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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I would surely think they'd have to stick by the product, since it's listed as the good stuff. It's definitely not your fault that the product didn't live up to expectations.
I'd be with you, in making a switch to another product, if they don't make it worth your while.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
i had the same problem with AVERY..... years ago. did a 2 color job, lime greenHP over black HP... was like a $800 job........the black shrunk badly, almost 1/4-3/8" all the way round....i was dealing with DENVER SIGN SUPPLY then......they (denver sign supply)gave me a credit for 1 10 yard roll of black!!!!! AVERY DIDNT DO NOTHING...needless to say i didnt use the store credit, and stopped using AVERY!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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[ June 04, 2015, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by old paint: i had the same problem with AVERY..... years ago. did a 2 color job, lime greenHP over black HP... was like a $800 job........the black shrunk badly, almost 1/4-3/8" all the way round....i was dealing with DENVER SIGN SUPPLY then......they (denver sign supply)gave me a credit for 1 10 yard roll of black!!!!! AVERY DIDNT DO NOTHING...needless to say i didnt use the store credit, and stopped using AVERY!!!!
I had the same issue with the their black and the new gold reflective. I was working for a local sign company at the time, and I did the same police car 4 times because of it. I vowed when I got out on my own I would never use avery.
-------------------- Mark Kottwitz Kottwitz Graphics Ridgely, MD www.SeeMySignWork.com -------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein Posts: 746 | From: Ridgely, MD | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
We've probably all had problems with one brand or another.
When I went out on my own, I started using a brand we used at my old job, which had always held up pretty well.
In my 7 year rated color chart was gold and silver metallic, so I used the gold on a few jobs. Four years later the gold was black on several signs. Checked with my vinyl supplier and was told the gold and silver were 5 year rated. There was no mention of that on the color chart. They were no help with replacing anything, so I switched brands and don't buy that brand except for one color I haven't found anywhere else.
Don't remember ever using any avery, and probably won't after reading so many horror stories a couple years ago.
-------------------- Ace Graphics & Printing Camdenton, MO. USA
posted
Had to email again to get the first response. He acknowledged he got the first one, just hadn't answered back. Still waiting on a response from my reply this morning.
[ June 04, 2015, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I had problems 3 times with Avery. 7 year cast. All 3 times, the lettering was FAlLLING OFF within. Minutes to a few hours. The only Avery product I use is their white paint mask.
Diane
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1695 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I get flack for this, but I almost exclusively use 3M high performance with the clear backing. I have never had a problem with this material, the clear backing cuts wonderful, blades last forever, weeding you can just about tear it off, small lettering down to about 3/16" cuts and weeds great and the clear backing allows multi colors to be registered easily onto one sheet of application tape.
Now I don't cut very much vinyl, but this material is about all I stock. For larger work I mostly use 3M high performance air release. Impossible to get a bubble with it.
-------------------- Curt Stenz Graphics 700 Squirrel Lane Marathon, WI 54448 Posts: 590 | From: Marathon, WI 54448 | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
You must Kevin. I remember the avery debacle. I even had an avery rep call me after our thread on here, assure me everything was fixed, told me the dates & colors involved. Then I did my truck with avery, made sure I was using vinyl made AFTER the fix. It shrunk 1/4" in a month!
Every manufacturer is bound to have a problem. It's how they handled it. Covering it up, denying, then finally admitting it but flat-out lying to me about it being fixed is NOT the way to handle it. I will never allow avery in my shop again, not because they had a problem but because I found the way they handled it completely unresponsible & downright slimy.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Let's not forget, gang, Wayne didn't say it was Avery vinyl he was using......yet.
And I have to go along with Kevin. I used and still do, Avery intermediate for years......never had an issue. I'm just a one-man show, for the most part, and don't use much vinyl. But I've never had a failure.
Sad fact is, more and more businesses are denying responsibility for failure, or not even returning your call or contact, when you get in touch with them about a problem.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Yes, I'm finding that too, Dale. I contacted the rep yesterday morning and still have not heard back. The first time I contacted him, he didn't reply back until I messaged him again....and he acknowledged getting the first one with no explanation of not replying to it.
It's a well-known company but not Avery
I did use Arlon/Calon for years and liked it very much until my supplier stopped carrying it.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I blame it on Florida some colors do last for many years others you are lucky to get 2 years & it depends on the background color of surface vinyl goes on, like if black not much you can do all vinyl will fail quickly.
I am not a big fan of vinyl though I use it on my window splash for white & like it on windows for hours etc & also use translucent for back lighted signs anything else is by request only.
Course understand yawl make big bucks with it so I really have nothing to say except my first sentence.
posted
Wayne, just pulled my oracal chart. 751 outdoor durability: 8 yrs for black & white; 7 years colors & transparent; 5 yr metallic; 3 yr brilliant blue & new gold.
I believe this is a relatively new chart. It's spiral bound. Wondering if they had problems with those 2 & changed the wording, but after you had used it. Something to check into if you have an old chart or can figure out when the new one came out.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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On the flip side, I used some of that "metalized silver stuff" forget the brand, it was rated at three years. It was on my own car so I figured I would see it failing and replace it. It's been ten years and it still looks great........go figure.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Mine, also, is one of the coil bound chart/books though it isn't a new one. But I will check it again when I get home tonight. At any rate. it failed long before 3 years and wasn't facing south. Really and truly, if that particular color isn't worth rating but 3 or even 4 years they should have it in the cheap promo "calendared" category.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I agree Wayne, it shouldn't be listed with the premium vinyl.
Craig, I'm curious as to what paint you use. Since I have had several colors of new One Shot go bad in less than 3 years, I've pretty much stopped using it on any exterior sign meant to last a while. If it is only lasting 3 years or less here in northern Michigan, I can't imagine it lasting half as long in Florida.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Dave, The last time I used any oneshot, here in FL, was on a white semi trailer and it chalked really bad in no time. That ended that for me. I prefer dimensional signs and acrylic latex.
[ June 15, 2015, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
"Alumaply" puled a similar trick, when I started using it it was touted as a replacement for painted MDO, thus a long term outdoor material. I think it had a 5 year warranty. The a few years ago I had some new jobs go bad. Went online to complain and see that it now has a 1 year warranty.....
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Webb: Ok, Here's the brand It was Oracal 751 "086 Brilliant Blue" . It says nothing about "3 year" durabilty on the chart I have.
Wayne, thank you for sharing! I am a big fan of Oracal. I will quietly check some of my work to see if it needs attention. I appreciate the heads up.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Welcome, Rick. I would be interested to know how your projects are holding up too. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I try to use a good product and thought that Oracal was.
Best I can remember without looking through my records, this was about a $1300 or $1400 job and it will really hurt to replace it. especially right now while business is slow and $$ is low..
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Wayne, I would make a case out of this and go back to your supplier and ask for compensation for your time and materials. Send them a photo of the sign and the invoice with the date to prove your case. When I got caught with bad vinyl in the Avery debacle and had a big job go bad I got a check for $2k back from Avery. I had to fight for my position. It's not right that small businesses suffer losses due to bad products from suppliers.
-------------------- Jean Shimp Shimp Sign & Design Co. Jacksonville Beach, Fl Posts: 1266 | From: Jacksonville Beach, Fl. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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So far, they have only been willing to reimburse me for the roll of vinyl. Maybe now they will just respond by reducing this "high performance" cast vinyl's rating to one year.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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I'm with you Wayne, I too am concentrating on 3D work. I switched to high quality latex on all my HDU signs because One Shot just doesn't last. I was really hoping that when PPG bought One Shot that they would restore it to a high quality paint again. I love the way One Shot flows off a quill. Even though I don't free hand letter, a quill gives great control while painting dimensional letters. I honestly don't understand how the hand letterers don't go completely bonkers knowing their beautiful lettering is going to look like hell in a very few years.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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