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Ya know, I really miss the old questions. I like reading about "What type of Goldleaf to water gild with?" or "Can I use gasoline as a paint thinner?'. These inquiries about converting files or print color matching just don't get me excited. Technology is here to stay,,,not much to comment about that. Even an occasional question about using the correct sign substrate is way more interesting than a digital print job on a brick wall. I jus be a Luddite, living in the past. I think I'll go and stroke my fitches.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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wallpaper hangers dont need to know much)))))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Awhile back, there was a post here announcing a gold leaf workshop to be taught by David Smith and Noel Weber. It got zero replies. Not even a "hey, I wish I could go, but..."
But, bathroom renovations practically crashed the site. ))))))
As they say, it is what it is. Posts: 4084 | From: ... | Registered: Nov 1998
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welll........something you cant do))))))bathroom remodling)))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Joe, Call it wallpaper hanging, but it is where the industry is. The good thing is being able to gold leaf AND hang wall paper These new guys only know how to print and stick. You can decide to embrace it or get left behind. I know many people who just hand paint now a days. there is nothing wrong with that. But I want to have a business to sell to a younger generation someday and I haven't had anyone ask me about learning to letter. Students coming out of the trade school barely know how to run a printer even, never mind read a tape measure.
[ May 20, 2015, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I installed ceramic tile in my downstairs bathroom and porcelain upstairs; I installed the cabinets, did the wiring, installed both shower stalls and the toilets, plumbing fixtures, hung the sheetrock, finished it, painted it and installed a Jacuzzi tub in the upstairs dormer. Some of the basics in those "skills" can be used to make and install signs; at least you can install tile on monument signs.
I can build sandblasted, routed, carved signs; the whole process, without using a computer if I want because I did it for many years. I can draw my own graphics, hand-cut stencils, hand rout, carve, lay gold leaf on them and hand-paint the pictorials. But I'm getting too old and lazy for all that stuff. I sold the sandblast equipment and just use a computer/CNC now for any and all I can get it to do. Imagine having to gouge out all these little flutes with a gouge.
I recently designed this in Corel, had it printed at another shop (who uses me for their 3D work) and installed it on the rear window of my truck because I couldn't bring myself to put "stickers" or paint on my doors.
[ May 20, 2015, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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THERE YA GO.........wallpaper hangers...nothing more nothing less......you want to be one fine....I DONT.. and wont 70 is a little late to start workin off a ladder))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I remember back in 1980, I needed several dozen highly finished boards lettered with some consistent lettering for a lumber company showroom. I found a company in Arizona who had this new computer cut vinyl lettering, already kerned and ready to apply. It saved me many hours of pattern making and hand-lettering. I was impressed and then it hit me that the process would take over the sign industry AND it has.
I have a hand-painted sign out in front of my gallery. About once a month someone stops and asks where in the world do you get that stuff anymore. I smile and tell them I still keep my quills oiled, but no one ever asks if I can paint them a sign.
Like buggy whips, all good things come to an end. I bet in another ten years, One Shot will no longer be around and brushes? No way.
Still working a pounce wheel by hand. Never went electric. I did discover bigger holes helps. I just did a small sign last night for the gallery using a sharp nail to pierce the pattern paper and pounded up a stick of white chalk for the sock bag to make the transfer. Found a half pint of brilliant blue and lettered the thing in an hour. I can spend that amount of time and paint a fairly nice landscape on canvas that will bring in alot more dough, but you know I still love hand-lettering something nice. Us old geazers will never quit, I suspect!
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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I hear ya, Preston. I probably wouldn't be doing so much vinyl, if the paint hadn't gone to schmit. I love to hand-letter, and probably will until there's no more paint and/or no more brushes...or I can't see the paint or hold a brush. But I do try to keep at least one foot on ground at all times.
I can't honestly say I hate much of the new technology.Back in the late 70's -early 80's up in Cincinnati, we picked up the account of one of the largest builders in the area. We had 4 X 4's and 4 X 8's out the ying-yang.. all beige background with red and brown lettering. We worked as many hours as the human body could endure to even begin to keep up.
About that time the Signmakers came out, and it was a breath of fresh air, to be able to have a little free time again. What a life-saver, for both our bodies and for our sanity. We bought an Arty, which was made by Gerber, at the time. It used the Gerber font cartridges, but stuff for it, was cheaper than the 4B. We kept that account for quite a few years, and did some neat jobs along the way. We would never have been able to do the volume of work we did, hand-painting.
I'm glad that today, I'm old and feeble (like OP) and can pick and choose what work I want to do; and am very blessed to have wound up in an environment, that allows me to pretty much just do that. I don't want to retire, and don't want to really get busy again; but am quite satisfied to be doing the old-style quality work that I've always taken pride in.
There's not a lot of that in the quickee-stickee, get-er-done-now world we're in today....not just in signs; but in many other phases of our lives.
posted
Yes I to love the new technology. But it kind of makes me sad how hand lettering isn't really preceived as a "Real Sign" for a business. So many business get the same old chet. "Re-Letter the backlit sign, a banner bought on-line designed by their kid and a A-Frame sign with so much copy on it, even a guy waiting for a late bus doesn't have enough time to read it all. But enough of that in a few weeks I will be doing a wall job on a brick wall,,,, painted,,,,,with 1-Shot.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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I just got a call about the blue fading badly on some signs we did two and a half years ago. Mixed enamels....one shot and white background enamel.
I quit selling gold on windows when the back up varnishes turned to crap after a couple years.
Seems like the product failure has dictated my direction and it's disappointing.
I do have a question though.... an architect wants me to route letters half an inch deep into pressure treated fir and gild aluminum on the flat bottom of the letter. We made samples and got the job. What I'm wondering is if there is a resin that I can squirt into the letter that will last and perhaps gild to its tack without using size and it will last? Any ideas?
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick, I tried using epoxy on a redwood sign, checked the tack as it set up, and when it was still sticky but very firm I laid the gold. Looked great, seemed fine when the epoxy was fully cured. The problem was the wood expanded and contracted as wood does, but the epoxy didn't. It started popping off the wood. Now I must explain that in this case it was a raised 1/4 inch inner border on the sign. But I also used the epoxy over letters on a redwood sign and the same thing happened. The best luck I've had on the type of letters you are cutting is to flood the letter with Dupont Centauri automotive paint straight from the can. It is a single stage paint that for spraying you would thin it 50/50 with reducer. But it worked great to pour it into flat bottom routed letters. In 2 days it was set hard but yet flexible enough to move with the wood. That would be a decent surface to gild to. But, if the letters are big enough, I would use Joe Crumley's method. (No he didn't invent it) He would cut Dibond letters to inset into the pocket just like an inlay. Dibond makes a silver panel, brushed aluminum one side, fine on the other. If you are going for guaranteed longevity, this might be the way to go.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I never want to go back to my brushes, spraying, paint fumes, shock horror.I remember only too well the sixteen hour working days and dont miss them.Recently upgraded my printer to a Roland RF640 and its revolutionised my working week. Yes there are rubbish sticky signs, I see them daily, but theyre mainly produced by guys with little or no training in the basics. I still make sure to go the extra mile in designing my digital stuff and business is booming. To me, computers and digital printers are simply the tools of the trade
-------------------- Kevin Gaffney Artistik Signs Kinnegad County Westmeath Ireland 044-75187 kevingaffney@eircom.net Posts: 628 | From: Ireland | Registered: Oct 2003
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You are a very lucky guy, Kevin...and you need to be very thankful. That's not the story, in many other areas of the planet.
I just talked to another sign guy today, up in Ohio, who was singing the blues. He said he used to have 3 shops in various areas around Cincinnati; and now is down to one. It is so saturated with like businesses, that everyone is cutting each others' throats, and he told me that it's lucky to make 10 - 12% profit on any given job. A printer mistake or vinyl error, and you can kiss whatever profits you've made 'good-bye'.
After 10 years in the business, he's having second thoughts, and wished he'd waited a few years, and then out-sourced the work. But unfortunately we aren't born with foresight.
Glad you are thriving!!!
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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Dont get me wrong Dale, its still hard work and Im not getting rich financially. What I have noticed in last couple of years, many of the operations around me that were doing average stuff as cheap as they could, have packed it in. Im lucky enough after over 30 years to have built up a good client base. At least with modern tools its possible to do decent looking stuff even on correx by spending maybe an extra tenminutes on the design end
-------------------- Kevin Gaffney Artistik Signs Kinnegad County Westmeath Ireland 044-75187 kevingaffney@eircom.net Posts: 628 | From: Ireland | Registered: Oct 2003
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The one thing I wish had been discussed over all these years on this forum was business. We shared tips, tricks, methods, laughs, tears, and even bathroom remodels. But the one thing that was most vital, was how to make a good living doing what we love. You can't stop progress by clinging to a brush, or a printer or a roll of vinyl. These are all tools of our trade. How we use them to turn a profit is what we should be sharing so we all live a healthy life and can retire like all of our customers.
Too many of our friends and colleagues have died poor in health and wealth. I for one am grateful I at least had learned the hand techniques I have. And yes opening a can of one-shot is like putting on an old pair of comfy shoes. But I just spent two hours this morning looking at a boat load of work from one client and not one piece of the project warrants a brush or some gold leaf. Don't get me wrong If I closed my doors tomorrow the two things I would cling to, are my sign kit and gold box, But it is smart to use the tools we have available to compete in today's market, no matter what that is.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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i have been selling a few banners, license tags, yard signs.etc. i have a local supplier www.supersigns.biz and i order from these 2 businesses thst only SELL TO THE TRADE.... www.signs365.com for the banners........I CANT, produce what i get from these suppliers..........at as low cost as they do the complete project for, start to sitting on my door step in a box......less then 2 DAYS after i call the order in))))))))) about the only work is doing the layouts....and both have web sites to place orders....no phone call is needed)))and i get PAID WELL........for this.......))))))
[ May 24, 2015, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hey Preston - never fear - I don't believe lettering enamel and quills will disappear. There are some young pups that are craving mentors to teach them correct lettering techniques. My husband watches a bulletin board for hot rodders and rat rodders, and the young guns, on the board, that practice pinstriping are now asking or advertising for someone to teach them how to do lettering - they've found out that it's not as easy as we make it look! I remember when digital vinyl printers got really hot in the mid 1990's - everyone said the sign painters were dinosaurs. Well, until 2 weeks ago, I knew a sign painter that ONLY did hand lettering - no computer, no vinyl - and he still made a living at it (Lyman Kopp, Kopp Signs in Lakeland, MN, passed away at age 88). He was a talented, and kind man. Last year, and now again this year - I'm so stinking busy doing vinyl AND hand lettering jobs, that I don't have time to rest. At first I thought maybe my prices were too cheap, so I raised them, then raised them again. Now, I believe I'm so busy because there are getting to be fewer of us that actually know how to design a nice as well as install a sign well. Like Kevin said, I also believe the average and cheap guys are packing it in. I've been doing more hand lettering in the past 2 years than I've done in the last 8 years. Mostly on old pick up trucks, but also on unique sign projects. Vinyl jobs are my bread and butter, hand lettering jobs are my artistic outlet - I make both pay well - I'm working towards a retirement/semi retirement at least! I like this thread and all your comments!
-------------------- Kathy Weeks Weeks-End Signs & Graphics Lake Elmo, Minnesota Posts: 249 | From: Lake Elmo, Minnesota | Registered: Mar 2009
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![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
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These new guys only know how to print and stick. You can decide to embrace it or get left behind. I know many people who just hand paint now a days. there is nothing wrong with that. But I want to have a business to sell to a younger generation someday and I haven't had anyone ask me about learning to letter. Students coming out of the trade school barely know how to run a printer even, never mind read a tape measure. 
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