posted
How many have made the switch to 'no-prime' HDU signs? I tried it once before but the HDU I used at the time was too grainy. It's working much nicer with DunaBoard....and my lovely Shop Assistant, LynnDee
[ September 29, 2014, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
HDU, no matter what the brand, does not "need" any primer. In the past when most signs were made of wood, the main job of primer was to soak into the wood and be the bonding agent between the wood and the top coat. Most primers are also cheaper due to no pigment in the formula. When it comes to hdu the primer coat is not necessary for topcoat adhesion but some brands of hdu have a more open cell surface, so high build primers do smooth out the surface and in most cases is less expensive than the top coats. I always prime unless I'm using latex stain for backgrounds. Latex stain is closer to colored primer anyway, and I've never had an hdu sign warp due to surface tension caused by painting the whole sign.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I've always used primer (FSC88WB) and probably will on jobs which need a 'glass-smooth' finish. But this sign is going up on the cross-beam of a 'telephone pole' entry and will be viewed from several feet away. Actually, the Dunaboard is pretty tight and this sign is turning out quite nice with three coats of acrylic latex.
Dave, Like you I've used solid color stain for primer lots of times on wood and HDU with great results. The only thing I don't do anymore is use it as an actual stain topcoat exposed to the elements because it always seemed to chalk faster than latex paint.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
still don't see the point, you put down 3 coats of paint, and feel like you eliminated a step. Primer dries quicker usually, sands better and gives a great base to paint to adhere to.
also in most cases latex paint is extremely translucent and a white base would make the true color a bit more vibrant. especially in the red family. To each his own. If I saw a financial benefit or savings in time without any compromise I would do it, but all I see is a feeling of eliminating a step, when in fact it's not.
[ October 01, 2014, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Actually, I did save lots of time. If I had primed with the FSC88 water borne, I would have had to thin and brush it on including all that textured background. I could have used a 2.2mm spray tip and sprayed it on but that would leave a very grainy texture; much grainier than the surface of the DunaBoard and sanding all that, even wet-sanding would have been nearly impossible except for the flat surfaces.
Instead, I set up my HVLP gun with a 1.4mm tip, thinned my paint to manufacturers recommendation (1 pint water/gallon) then sprayed my latex on. Each coat took less than a minute, the background is already sprayed evenly, and all that is needed is to paint the raised surfaces. The back is already sprayed too.
Here is the 1.5" thick applique with two coats black acrylic latex sprayed on. It's not attached to the sign yet and I will spray it a couple more times to make it smooth an hole-free.
[ October 01, 2014, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Duna! Every time I try another brand I regret it. Duna is so tight and non-grainy!
-------------------- John Byrd Ball Ground, Georgia 770-735-6874 http://johnbyrddesign.com so happy I gotta sit on both my hands to keep from wavin' at everybody! Posts: 741 | From: Ball Ground, Georgia, USA | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I am having issue with a couple signs out there right now peeling. They are only about a year old, so I'm perplexed. We have had a lot of rain recently, but I still, that has never messed with things in the past. They just called me on it about 2 weeks ago, and I have not yet gone out to investigate the problem because we are still experiencing heavy rains, and I wouldn't be able to do anything until things dry out well anyway.
Anybody have any similar issues? I have asked them if a sprinkler has been hitting the signs at all, and they are supposed to get back to me on that. I used Sherwin Williams paint on them. I just hate call backs like this. Will know more when I get out there too see.
BTW ... I did prime the signs as I always do, and used Kilz to do it.
~ janette
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
Janette, what brand of HDU did you use? Is the paint peeling all the way down to the bare HDU or just down to the primer? Are the colors very dark that are peeling?
-------------------- Jean Shimp Shimp Sign & Design Co. Jacksonville Beach, Fl Posts: 1266 | From: Jacksonville Beach, Fl. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Janette, are the signs HDU? I've never had one peel using Coastal Enterprises' FSC88WB on HDU signs but I would think that Kilz would be fine as well. I have used Kilz on some exterior plywood letters and that held up great for many years. I do know that if there was any contaminants, like dust, silicones or oils on the raw HDU, this could cause peeling but I'm sure that wasn't true in your case. Also if the Kilz was oil based and wasn't completely dry when it was topciated, that might cause the issue.
BTW, the exterior plywood was used for the cutout letters because the customer' business is a building supply and he wanted to use his own material, maybe to show how durable it is. Anyway, they lasted for 17 years with Kilz primer topped with some Glidden oilbased red. About 3 years ago he finally had me replace them and this time I used Polymetal cut on the CNC.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Alright, it's all done and my Wife sent a photo to the client, who replied "words can not express how awesome I think it looks"...Nothing like a happy customer. Myself, I would like to see those grey letters with a fade but it's already over $1200 now since I sold the customer on adding the applique. Anyway, here it is. If anyone else wants to add more input on the "no-prime" method, feel free.
[ October 03, 2014, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I will find out the brand name of the HDU. I can't remember it right now. I bought it locally here at NGlantz. It is painted with darker colours, and I believe it is going right down to the HDU. I will find out more once I get out there to see for myself. It's been extremely wet conditons here the past few weeks.
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
I am not a fan of Kilz. A great primer for tight celled HDU like Duna and SignFoam is Sign Prime. For open celled hdu you can't beat Coastal Enterprises primer. Your paint peeling could be caused by not getting the hdu clean enough before painting. HDU is very prone to static electricity and it likes to hold on to it's own dust. It's best to wash the hdu before painting with a strong stream of water. Good luck. BTW, I had a customer who's sprinkler system watered their sandblasted sign every day. It was redwood though but wow, paint just wouldn't stay on for more than a few years.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I never prime HDU, just DTM paint. I do wash the sign down with water after blasting to get rid of any excess dust that may be on the surface, let dry and spray on the paint.
-------------------- Frisby Signs, Inc. El Dorado, Arkansas Posts: 902 | From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Thanks Roy, Except for using primer, that's the method and paint I've used for years too and it's pretty much a must if the sign will be sandblasted although the new static-free HDU helps a lot. This particular sign's background was done on the router using the texture feature in the Aspire program. Actually, the whole sign was made completely on the router using 6 different router bits.
[ October 08, 2014, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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