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The sound of the attorney's who just turned down my estimate because of cost. Their budget for signs (yes, that's plural) installed on their building is 500 bucks. They went with another vendor.
Someone remind me again what an attorney's hourly rate is?
I'm aggrevated.
Okay, thanks for letting me vent.
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
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Janette, I am presently going thru an IRS audit and the attorney that I retained is at $200/hr. And I did nothing wrong, our books balance out to the dollar.
Why does this government make it so difficult on small business, just to prove you are right?
Anyone that is satisfied with this current administrations stand on trampling our freedoms and laws, ever increasing debt, lack of moral backbone, and I could go on and on, is just plain nuts.
Sorry to take a different direction on this thread. But I have noticed thru the years that "professionals" are many times the most difficult to work with, and they will usually find something wrong with whatever you do. Thanks for letting me vent.
-------------------- Curt Stenz Graphics 700 Squirrel Lane Marathon, WI 54448 Posts: 590 | From: Marathon, WI 54448 | Registered: Dec 1998
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Maybe you should make a Cheep Cheep Cheep cartoon law firm sign and install it close by. Sounds like a fun designer challenge!
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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'Some jobs cost YOU money' In lost opportunity cost, or dollars / time spent. Taste costs money. Of course you could say... 'As you like it' And give them Corex / foam core type signs! They will get the cheap they want, But will just have to replace it a lot sooner!
-------------------- Light and Shadow Manzanita,Oregon shonlenzo@hotmail.com Posts: 286 | From: Manzanita,Oregon | Registered: Feb 2000
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Someone told me their grandma had a saying "I can't afford to buy cheap things" The idea being, that you would just have to replace it soon And spend more money due to the poor quality of cheap stuff. I have found she was right several times with various things, From tarps to tools.
-------------------- Light and Shadow Manzanita,Oregon shonlenzo@hotmail.com Posts: 286 | From: Manzanita,Oregon | Registered: Feb 2000
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Two different lawyers I've dealt with in the last couple years (one in Ohio and one in Indiana) charge between $200 and $250 per hour. They charge by TENTHS of an hour, when you call them on the phone. They charge you for the time they research records, file papers, etc. Any fraction of time they spend "helping" you, costs you.
When you heard "Our budget for signs is $500", the best thing would have been to just say,"Thank you for your time." and walk away.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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I'm usually not a whiner, but I just needed to decompress abit, so I came here. LOL Sorry you guys, and thanks, because I know you all can relate to the frustration.
They were a referral from a friend, and usually word of mouth referrals have a happy ending. But not this time.
I didn't know "the budget" until after I met with them, measured their walls and then drew up options and numbers for them to review. (they wanted 3 signs for 3 exterior block walls, and I'm thinking that surely the 500 dollar budget must be per sign .... Right? If not, they truely are dillusional. LOL Still, I am not able (nor willing) to meet their needs.
Apparently, the vendor they chose already had a working relationship with one of the lawyers in the group. I'd like to shake some sense into sign people who are poisoning this industry by working so cheap.
Another head shaker to me. It's a Law GROUP ... which means they would share the cost!
Honestly, there are days when I feel there is more dignity in waiting tables. LOL
quote:Originally posted by Rusty Bradley: Thinks Curt did not vote "black" last time.
I intended to vote for Alan Keyes in the last election but, unfortunately, he wasn't nominated. If either Allen West or Ben Carson run this time, I would vote for them too. But I did not and would never vote for ''Obama'' and some of my Black friends have told me the same. ''Black'' had nothing to do with it.
Back on topic, one lawyer did try to cheat me on paying for a sign one time. But otherwise,some of my best customers have been lawyers.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Janette, I had a hospital administrator hire me to put metal signs over a big sandblasted sign on which I had previously made and installed sandblasted, gold leafed panels in. It's an aproximately $12k sign covered with 3mm polymetal. I thought that was awfully cheap too.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Webb: Janette, I had a hospital administrator hire me to put metal signs over a big sandblasted sign on which I had previously made and installed sandblasted, gold leafed panels in. It's an aproximately $12k sign covered with 3mm polymetal. I thought that was awfully cheap too.
I would be so tempted to take the nice sign down to display in my garage. Anyone that has any taste will notice the change.
-------------------- Mark Kottwitz Kottwitz Graphics Ridgely, MD www.SeeMySignWork.com -------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein Posts: 746 | From: Ridgely, MD | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Webb: Janette, I had a hospital administrator hire me to put metal signs over a big sandblasted sign on which I had previously made and installed sandblasted, gold leafed panels in. It's an aproximately $12k sign covered with 3mm polymetal. I thought that was awfully cheap too.
I would be so tempted to take the nice sign down to display in my garage. Anyone that has any taste will notice the change.
I guess I could have asked for a couple of those I had made, to use as samples. The gold leaf and paint still looked nice. Could have substituted a couple of PT pine 2x12's.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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I did some "Welcome to Town" sign for an attorney. After 6 or 7 years they started falling apart, he called to get them replaced and bitched about them not lasting longer. I explained they cost him a little over a $100 a year! (and under my breath said less than you make before I have my morning coffee break). Then later they bitched about a $75 bill to change a name on the office directory! It's an old adage that the bigger they are, the richer they are the more difficult they are, they think everyones out to rip them off.
quote:Originally posted by Bob Rochon: Janette, just for a laugh send them a bill for your time lol
Better yet have your "lawyer" send it. Anyone here got a law degree?
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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I always heard that real estate people are the cheapest, but now I have heard it all.
I personally have never done anything for a lawyer...Guess I'm the lucky one...
Jannette, don't let that a$%hat ruin your day...just walk away and hold your head high.
My cheap customer is a drywall guy (who happens to be related by marriage, it is a cousin), who had never called me to do anything for him. He called a partner (a gentleman that I do all of his vinyl work for) and asked if we did boats, trucks, etc.
So I go see him, and he proceeds to show me his brand new 2014 Crew Cab Ford, and wants his logo on the side. Then he shows me his boat, which is in its own garage... Now I know that brand new trucks are 50-60K, but he proceeds to brag about is 40K motorcycle sitting beside his new speed boat, that he wants stripes on just like a toy that he found...
So I take pictures of them go back to the office to lay them out. When I get back the next day with a quick layout for the truck (2 revisions...1 he asked for, and one that I would do because it looked better, which his sons and them all liked better) and a price, well, he had a cow that I was going to charge him $450 for the truck. He wanted a cash discount, family discount, and get this "a poor man discount". He said that the last guy that lettered his truck did it for $50...
I told him to call the guy that did it for $50, and he said that they had been trying since January, but he won't show up to even look at it. I got kinda pi$$ed, and told him that he is complaining about $450, but he is driving a $60 k truck, riding a $40k motorcycle, and has an $60k boat, to which he corrected me and told me that it was a $92k boat....
I just told him good luck, got in my truck, and drove away...
-------------------- Mark Kottwitz Kottwitz Graphics Ridgely, MD www.SeeMySignWork.com -------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein Posts: 746 | From: Ridgely, MD | Registered: Oct 2000
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Once I did a design and a depth cut glass sign for a business....gBe them a really good deal. They wanted more, but didn't want to pay much. Eventually, I was a nit frustrated, hearing all about everything they had in mind..and said "What about the part where I make MONEY on this?" The very wealthy woman said.. "oh Dahling.......We do the art because it is So FUN!!" A bit out of touch. One other fairly well to do client... I actually had to explain that working, pays the bills! His world was that far removed from most peoples everyday world.....
-------------------- Light and Shadow Manzanita,Oregon shonlenzo@hotmail.com Posts: 286 | From: Manzanita,Oregon | Registered: Feb 2000
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It's not just lawyers in particular that are cheap. I've done some of my nicest signs for other lawyers. I actually showed these folks the photos as reference. They were VERY impressed, but not enough to open the wallet any wider. LOL They were very cordial in their rejection email to me ... saying they appreciated my work, my time, and my professionalism and promptness. Hmmmm.... wonder why that all doesn't hold monetary value? Oh yeah almost forgot, they had that other guy in the wings who'll do something cheaper. LOL
Frankly, I don't think it's the cheap customers that are solely to blame.I'm very disgusted by sign folks that are doing work cheaply now. Seems like a lot of them too. This gives customers more reason to demand something for less money. Simply because they can. There is always some signguy/gal out there hungry enough (or stupid enough LOL) to omit the word "profit " from their vocabulary.
sigh
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
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We float the Buffalo River every week...sometimes twice a week...we are probably having more fun in our $279 kayaks...which we got on sale for $199...than the guy with his $92k boat...he probably owes so much that he cant afford to take off and enjoy it.
My best friend's son in his kayak...he only has about a 60 IQ but he can handle the fast water like a genius...we call him "The Otter"
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Nettie, there are always more perfect answers after the moment. I wish you could have told them...$500 is perfect! That's what I charge for designing a sign.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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About thirty years ago, I made a presentation on a package of carved and gilded signs for a professional building which would be filled with doctors and lawyers. After I made the pitch, I was greeted with a bunch of grumbling about the high cost of the signs.
The functioning neuron on the right side of my brain consulted with its counterpart on the left and the two came to an agreement that the following statement would be worth what they knew it would cost. I told the assembled crowd: "My entire life, I've dreamed of standing in a room full of doctors and lawyers and hear them tell me I charge too much!" I blew the job, but it WAS worth it!
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I had a similar one Dave. We did Office Suite signs for a building that had been bought for pennies on the dollar by a guy who made mega millions with sweetheart deals that came through his buddy the governor. Well they wanted to change the name on their own office and asked me to do it for free because I made so much money off them...I replied, "Yea, I know Bob needs a break"...never heard from them again. By the way the governor went to jail and Bob went bankrupt. At least his businesses went bankrupt.
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Once Long ago I drastically underestimated a sign job, Involving two four x six ft. sandblasted cedar signs, and eight more signs.....I made two hundred dollars on the whole thing. It lasted over 25 years, never was repainted. I saw the lady again 20 years after I did the signs. She complained at how expensive they were to install. Later, after the business closed, they ended up in someone living room...they were well liked. Had a salmon and a wave, on the Oregon coast. But all she could do, was complain about the installation costing her, because i did not install them.
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I once did some gold leaf door signs in SF for a lawyer, never paid at all. Suggested I try and get him to pay and said "good luck". The last law office signs I ever did. Once for a Dr, for his buildings! Itemized all just so he could see where all the costs were. Called and said he wanted me to do 2/3 of them cuz itemized another guy was cheaper on a 1/3, But... my Overall price was cheaper!? WTF? Last Dr signs I ever did. In the end, I never really liked being in business. Now retired.
-------------------- Bill'n'Annie Davidson Heathcote, NSW, Aus. my Aussie wife, a Toohey's Old, my Holden Ute, Retired from the rat race! Posts: 309 | From: Heathcote, NSW, Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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