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There has been a lot of discussion lately about paint recently. The old One Shot just doesn't cut it for me anymore. Joey had mentioned working with House of Kolors. Others mentioned acrylics, and perhaps other urethanes etc. I am very interested in this. Can anyone post a URL or detIled description of how to work with House of Kolors urethane? Also , acrylics....which paint brand? Does it flow well for striping? Can it be sprayed, or brushed on stencil mask? If you would be so kind, Please describe how to mix it up, reduce it etc, how it thins etc. Temp, drying humidity etc ...and how they affect the paint... I am very interested..I did mention this in another post about paint recently too. Thanks!
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I use HOK when airbrushing murals that will be clear coated. For reducer, I use a urethane reducer, medium. I have heard that you can stripe with it, but on hand lettering, it's a different ballgame. Yeah, if you mask, spray, clear on larger lettering ,great! But if you try to brush larger letters, it leaves a lots of brush strokes. I live in a cooler climate, so it may dry a tad slower, but in really hot temps, wow!, you might have a problem with it drying too fast. Gosh, if you you're a little closer, I'd have you come over. I could show you what I mean.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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Why don't you go to the HOK website?? they all the tech data you need and a tech support telephone line, and there are Youtube videos on their products.
[ July 21, 2014, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Bob Ficucell ]
-------------------- Bob Ficucell Glass Arts Woodland Hills,Ca Posts: 220 | From: Woodland Hills | Registered: Mar 2000
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I wrote an article in SignCraft May/June 2010 on this subject. I'll try to sum it up.
First off, it's NOT 1Shot and you have to forget and actually unlearn everything you knew about enamels when working with HOK or the DuPont line of Hot Hues.
I really don't produce signs anymore only vehicle work. There the urethanes far outshine the enamels. If the work is going to be clear coated no catalyst is required. However, if it is not going to you have to use the catalyst from the manufacturer of the paint, they don't interchange very well, something I learned pretty recently. The use of the catalyst takes time to learn and it is the key to ease of use. HOK will work anywhere between 8:1 and 4:1. Adding more catalyst SLOWS the drying time. DuPont calls for 3:1 and is a slower drying paint although it dries to the touch in maybe 10 minutes. For pintstriping, HOK is heavier bodied and it's pull is different but it works very well. DuPont is a thinner paint and the pull is closer to 1Shot. The DuPont metallics work better than anything I've ever used! For lettering and mni graphics, they need to be slowed down by adding more catalyst but they work well. You can't do a lot of "picking" though. The DuPont flows out a little better with fewer brush strokes. I'll add that the DuPont is more expensive and smells more. If most of your work is door lettering, urethanes will be fine. For a big box truck, I'd find some Ronan. The urethanes can be used with a mask ( this also takes some experimenting with the catalyst) and it airbrushes great.
This was done in urethanes, the lettering too.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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For striping hok i use their retarder as a thinner and add the catalyst to that. I dip the brush in color and then in the thinner/cat mix and pallet. I live in a hot climate and this works well for me. You MUST wash brushes in laq thin after the job. You MUST wash brushes in Laq thin before beginning because the oil rez in the heel will cause mucho problems. If you know the work will be cleared, the catalyst is optional, but I use it because the local body guys are a bit heavy handed in their prep for the clear. Jer/Artworx, whose website is turlocksigns.com
-------------------- Gerald Barlow Artworx Turlock, CA
95380 artworx@bigvalley.net Posts: 198 | From: Turlock, CA 95380, USA | Registered: Dec 2002
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One other thing that's nice about the urethanes is they aren't affected nearly as much by the weather. I work 15-20 motorcycle rallies during the summer sometimes in 100 degree heat and the paint is nowhere near the problem enamel is.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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Those using Urethanes, how do you handle the health hazards of working with them? Do you use respirators at all times? If you do is it full face?
I've know some pretty taleted folk who without using proper protection have shortened their quality of life drasticly. I once airbrushed a motorcycle tank years ago using hok and even though I had a respirator on, I ended up with a 3 day headache that I won't soon forget.
[ July 21, 2014, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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in my experienced with A/E and catalysts.......you need a lot of air flow to clean the air around you. using the PAINT ONLY.... you really dont need more then a paper mask. add CATALYST... break out the charcoal respirator))))) seems this stuff(catalyst)can enter the lungs as a vapor and have the same hardening effect on your lung sacks as it does to the paint its added to!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I keep the stuff off my hands and keep the paint as far away from me as possible. I work either outdoors or in huge shops. I wouldn't use this in a small confined area, even though we are talking a few drops, it's still nasty stuff. If I were to spray it a good respirator would be used.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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Thanks, everyone! I feel inspired to work with urethanes.... One Shot and Chromatic were great 'back in the day' I could always count on the quality they gave a project. But like many things,.....they just aren't the same anymore.
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Nice work, George! Alicia,..I actually would very much enjoy visiting... Right now I am in Appalachia, but will return to Oregon again. I often visit friends in the SeaTac area. I used to letter a lot of yachts on Lake Union, and in Ballard. 'Toys' are the market I am going to concentrate on. Trucks, boats, bikes. And maybe an ATV or two.
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George, I am also leaning towards customizing 'toys' ... Yachts, trucks, bikes, maybe ATV's... It is just more fun, and it pays well! Nothing beats the smile of the owner, When they see their prized possession With the 'icing in the cake' you just put on there. Also, it eliminates things like MDO plywood, DiBond, etc.... I like not having to deal with the background.... Nice work on your website! Alicia.....I may be returning West for a while, I would very much like to visit your shop and talk
quote:Originally posted by shon lenzo: George, Nice work on your website!
I agree. I went on there because of this comment, and, wow, awesome work.
-------------------- Mark Kottwitz Kottwitz Graphics Ridgely, MD www.SeeMySignWork.com -------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein Posts: 746 | From: Ridgely, MD | Registered: Oct 2000
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Charcoal respirator is NOT enough when spraying with catalyst. You need to add the purple filter to the charcoal at a minimum. Personally, I use a full body suit with a fresh air hood.
I didn't see shon mention that he is only working on vehicles. Those interested in acrylics for signs, I can offer this. I started using the water based acrylics that Gary Anderson started selling. Gary was relabeling Porter Acri Shield paint as his Rhino brand. The stuff has better coverage than any Sherwin Williams I have tried, and it flows off Mac's water based quills beautifully. I had my doubts about the paint at first, but it won me over. Gray doesn't sell his Rhino brand anymore. He sold it off to a company that quickly ran it into the ground and I could see why. They weren't even set up to ship their paint to us easily. I love the paint, but it is hard to get in my area.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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dave.....I didn't see shon mention that he is only working on vehicles. shon........said George, I am also leaning towards customizing 'toys' ... Yachts, trucks, bikes, maybe ATV's... so i would say....he is working on vehicles)))) as for a suit and purple filter....FOR PINSTRIPING..is a lot of overkill. the suit and purple filters is when you are spraying in a confined place........like a paint booth.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I agree it is very important to protect the lungs and brain... Especially when spraying. Good ventilation is always important.. Lettering, striping etc is always done where there is air flow. I will be very careful with the catalyst, etc. Health is everything
-------------------- Light and Shadow Manzanita,Oregon shonlenzo@hotmail.com Posts: 286 | From: Manzanita,Oregon | Registered: Feb 2000
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OP.... I SAID while spraying. You don't really need anything while pin striping, just while mixing. Once the catalyst is mixed in the paint you don't need a respirator unless spraying according to PPG tech support.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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once the cat is in the paint...IT IS STILL HARMFUL....AS ITS VAPORIZES INTO THE AIR. if in a contained space, with just the paint in an open can with cat.....it will still hurt you. and i can tell you from experience.......... the pain it will cause you is not fun. i spray painted a bathtub when i we bought our 1st house in sarasota. i was working at the NAPA store as and outside salesman(body shops was my main clients)as i was trained by MARTIN SENIOR paint co. on all their automotive products. i mixed the paint i need for the bathtub, used a detail gun, small version of a std spray gun, cause i didnt want a lot of overspray. had a fan in the window of the bathroom(pulling air out) doors of house open for max air flow....didnt use a charcoal mask just a paper one..bad mistake!!!!! with all that ventilation.......i still got deathly sick!!!!!!! lungs hurt like somebody stabbing em, short of breath, and this went on almost the whole nite.......took a good week to not be short of breath. the catalyst is bad stuff.......
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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As one of my old mentors once said..... 'Exposure to chemicals is an occupational hazard of this business" In his particular case, it could mean several things!
-------------------- Light and Shadow Manzanita,Oregon shonlenzo@hotmail.com Posts: 286 | From: Manzanita,Oregon | Registered: Feb 2000
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