posted
Hello everybody, It has been a while since I posted here on the forum. I have been bussy with many different decorative techniques. And recntly I finally got things together to make 3d signs, like I wanted to make years ago. There is just one big but... I can not seem to remember what the pricing for these type of signs are. The signs will be about 2 feet wide and one foot high. Here a few examples to show the complexity of the signs. 1. 2. 3. 4.
The client wants to know how much they will be with: A. Just 3d routing and priming. B 3d routing, priming and painting in 3 colors and textured shadings.
If you could give me any directions I would be very thankful.
posted
Aside from the cost of design, I would imagine the cost of a sign that is 2 square feet, with this level of complexity should go for no less than 400 bux. A bit less on each if you are doing more than one. Again, design time would be extra. The signs you have showing here are larger than 1'x 2' though.
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
Nice work! #1 For the first one, I would charge $105/sqft for the sign plus maybe $150/sqft for the pictorial area.
#2 For the second one, I would charge $105/sqft for the sign, $100sqft for the painted background behind the 'cardinal' and $150/sqft for the cardinal.
#3 For the raccoon, I would charge $150/sqft
#4 I would charge $95/sqft for this type sign.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I was wandering how much one sgft of 1,5 inch HDU cost in the usa. Because 95 dollars for a painted number 4 sign seems a bit cheap to me. I remember there are many different prices from different artisits on this forum. These signs are very exclusive here in europe and i have to impirt all the hdu myself.
quote:Originally posted by Erik Winkler: I was wandering how much one sgft of 1,5 inch HDU cost in the usa. Because 95 dollars for a painted number 4 sign seems a bit cheap to me. I remember there are many different prices from different artisits on this forum. These signs are very exclusive here in europe and i have to impirt all the hdu myself.
A 4x8 sheet of 1.5" "Design Board" brand HDU costs me $305.72. That's $9.55 sqft or roughly 1/10th the finished price of $95. So maybe you could compare that ratio to your HDU cost? I don't no.
You have to take into account your ecomomy, your cost for HDU, converting to Euros etc. Otherwise I don't see how you can compare prices in the USA with the Netherlands.
[ April 25, 2014, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Wayne, normally a dollar is an euro when i compare prices. I do not know how you look to these signs, but here in europe they are special and it took my a long time to get to the point to be able to produce these signs and somehow 95 dollars seems so inexspensive for the number 4 signs. That is what we ask for normal 2d dibond signs 4 sgft here in the Netherlands.
posted
The aigns in #4 appear to be a simple shape with a silhouette type graphic. I was pricing a single panel. The one on top appears to be two single panels back to back and so would be doubled. So, yes, I would charge 95/sqft for a simple single onesided panel like that. If the panels on #4 are, say, 2sqft each, they would total 6sqft or $570 for the panels only. If the graphic at the top of each sign is gold leaf, I would charge another $200/sqft for the gilding.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Back when I first started doing dimensional (sandblasted) signs in 1984 we were getting $100/square foot. Prices have gone up a TON since then. We have also changed our way of thinking. I DO NOT price by the square foot nor by time and materials. We like price a sign based on what it is worth - not what it costs to make.
The cardinal sign would be the closest to the type of sign we do in our shop. We probably do a little more detail than that. Here's one sign currently in production in our shop.
It measures 4 feet across which is double the size of the ones you are talking about but no less work in reality. The only difference with the larger size is the extra cost of materials. We got 5K for this sign as part of a much, much larger project that included a whole bunch of other signs and features as well. As a single sign we would ask for $6500 or more.
-grampa dan
[ April 26, 2014, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I appreciate your responses very much, thank you. Dan yoyr sign looks 4 feet x 3 feet (12 sgft), that is 540 per sgft. But your sign has about four layers and a 3d sculpted character. So it seems with my newbie vieuw that the prices are about equal. It is so important to me, because i do not want to get into high and lose jobs and since my first bidding ever will be about 60 to 120 little road signs i do not want to bid too low and loose a lot of money or proffesionality. In Europe we do not have many comparison making 3d signs, so your experience is an influancial and important guiding line for me.
[ April 26, 2014, 02:24 AM: Message edited by: Erik Winkler ]
The sign in the picture that I used as an example was routed from one piece of HDU. That's the beauty of using a router. Anything we can imagine is possible with virtually the same amount of labor. On a truly dimensional piece the routing time is roughly the same no matter what we route. This is why we do not price based on time and materials nor square footage. The sculpting time for the figure on this piece was a couple of hours with a helper mixing the epoxy. Paint will take less than eight hours at most with three coats of paint on all the surfaces.
If the sign were smaller the machine time and materials would be a little less but everything else (design, sculpt and paint) would be roughly the same.
I send away a lot of customers because our minimum charge for a small house sign (similar to the ones in the bottom picture of Eric's post) would be $1,000 or more. I've only done a couple in the last years and that is fine with me.
We only do (far out) dimensional work as this is what we enjoy the most.
Our business plan is not to just stay busy but rather do EXACTLY the kind of work we WANT to do and make good money doing it. The plan seems to be working as we are currently booked into October of 2015 with more work pending and the phone still ringing.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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You have just received the best pricing lesson of your career, in the sign business, from El Abuelo Dan......That is, exactly, how you are supposed to price your highly skilled work !...Not by the letter, nor by the hour, nor by the square foot, nor by the size, etc.....Otherwise, you will end up like the majority of many sign shop owners......who price their highly skilled work, which they execute with those so expensive machines ( which, by the way, they are still paying for ) according to the prices that "others" dictate in their little pricing guides.
How do you price knowledge, talent, creativity, execution of highly skilled work, etc. ? How do you price THE VALUE of your work?
Eric, don't hold back !......If you crack a smile, when you give out a price, for your highly skilled work, you have just arrived at the right price.
Good luck, my friend.
RD
P.S.- By the way, Eric, your work is outstanding !
posted
I want to make clear that the photo's I posted are not mine. I feel a bit embarrised when my post gave anyone the idea that I made them, sorry for that. But these will be the signs I will make from now on. You can see my work on the links below my signature. With http://www.ferrywinkler.nl we make the 'normal' signmaking stuff and with http://www.schitterend.eu/en we make the high end decorative gold leaf, glass, acid etching, restoration work. The reason why I started all this 10 years ago is because I wanted to make the beautiful 3d signs I saw when I first went on vacation with my parents to Florida in the usa 20 years ago. It never left my brain, the idea that I wanted to make these signs was my goal. Finally I am at the point of getting this done, also thanks to the workshop I had at Dan Sawatsky's. I am absolutely not intended in selling these high end signs for cheap, it took me many years of studying to come to this point and many dollars-euro´s for learning, experimenting with different materials etc etc. But a guideline for small routing signs in 3d is simply something I not had. Thank you again.
[ April 27, 2014, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Erik Winkler ]
posted
Erik, this one is HDU with internal aluminum reinforcement. It was about $8250 [img]http://www.webbsignworks.com/index_htm_files/99.jpg[/mg]
About $8500 for this solid redwood one with a 3D "apple" over 10 years ago.
Two sided panel, sandblasted redwood, with hand painted 'horse'. Over $800
I can also do full 3D hand-carved stuff like this HDU cow head with hazy blue glass beads for pupils, 3D main copy, and sandblasted HDU panel, but few in this neck of the woods seem to be willing to pay for 3D or gold leaf for that matter.
Did this one last year, entirely on my CNC router. About $4500
[ April 27, 2014, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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