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Hand Painted Signs and Pinstriping is not endangered, if anyone thinks that it is, they should get out more.. There are hundreds in not thousands of newbies practicing daily
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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I don't know, Joey; maybe in your area, but in many parts of the country, the sign painter is a vanishing species. There's no one else around where I am, that does anything but vinyl or printing.....a fact that I'm very thankful for.
But, being's as we do such a miniscule portion of the work that's out there, the supply side of the industry is no longer our friend either. The bulletin paints that we cherished are crap now; many of the substrates we used (like MDO) are getting worse and worse all the time. Several manufacturers of the aluminum panels we tried to replace the MDO, have stopped painting them and gone to powder coating, which isn't conducive to painting. And on and on.......
Additionally, since the advent of printing, the associated prices have come down and down. Many customers have no concept of quality anymore; they want cheap and quick. Printed banners or signs are cheaper than what we can hand-do. Sadly, most of the printers don't tell customers that their prints won't last long outdoors(usually), so almost anywhere you look, you'll see faded out banners, business signs, streaked billboards, etc.
The body shop manager of Jackson's biggest dealer of BMW, Lexus, and Acura told me that I was the only person in the area that did hand pinstriping anymore.
I was encouraged to see several new sign people at the last meet in Birmingham, and I hope they keep coming; but we've got actively work to keep the materials we're accustomed to working with in the picture. I can't see striping with acrylics....and I just hate to do a sign with 1-Shot today, and see it all faded out in a year or less. On a previous trip up to Cincinnati, last fall, I was driving around the outer beltway, and saw a billboard for a subdivision, that our company had done almost 20 years ago. It was pretty well weathered, but was readily readable and in one piece. We took pride in what we did. Now, we need to get it back.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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I agree 100% with what you have said.....But, I would like to add something else to what you have already said: " they want cheap and quick".....I would rather say: ...."They want it cheap, quick and NOW!
Joey,
It's not happening in Oklahoma, either....
Newbies can practice all their little hearts desire, but, in real life, considering how the sign trade has sadly changed, they will not be able to make a decent living, just painting signs, today, like we, old timers, could and did, in the past. It's a different game, now.
Do you, really, believe that these newbies, knowing that they will have to confront and compete with "the click and drag" printing people and their "competitive" pricing ( dictated by others in their fancy "pricing books" ) are going to be motivated to learn how to paint and, also, aspire to compete with these people and be able to make a decent living ( just painting signs ), like we did when we started ?......Hell, no !! .......Although it is admirable that some are showing a certain amount of interest in our trade.
It is very sad, but it is a reality....and, the majority of them already know it.
posted
I have to agree, I'm one of the so called left overs from the paint Days.. and If I never switched and embraced the new technology, I too would have had to give up...There is no Doubt about it. Not only do people want it fast they want to be able to change things up... especially Vehicle lettering.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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Would you tell a "Newbie" where to Learn our Craft, and How to Make Money?
-------------------- Kevin Betz KB Sign Company 21321 Ulrich Clinton Township, MI 48036 kbsigncompany@att.net Posts: 229 | From: Detroit, MI | Registered: Sep 2003
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Many years ago, when I was starting out, there were dozens of sign painters around Cincinnati. I found a lot of them to be very protective of the ways they did much of their work. There was more than one time, where I asked someone a question, and they told me to "go ask somebody else." Or, a few times, they told me some BS story.
Today, I think a lot of us would be happy to take a novice under our wing, to try and keep our craft alive. With all the computerization and mechanization today, making or building or painting something by hand is a foreign concept to many. I actually had a kid come into my shop last summer and ask if I could use him part-time. He said he thought the sign business would be an interesting one to get into (which it is). I asked him to help me sand a couple posts, I had routed grooves in. He worked about an hour, griped about the dust and that he was getting his pants dirty. He left shortly thereafter, and I never saw or heard from him again.
I never got money-rich in this business; and I don't believe I'm alone in that. Money is only part of the value of personal satisfaction, and that is priceless, at least to me. Knowing I've got a happy customer, who'll come back and tell his friends what a good job I did for him, is more important to me. I'll have repeat and future work.
I'd love to find a young person, who's sincere about learning signs. There are a lot of other skills that go along with the full service side of this business, that can help someone with other problems that crop up along the way. And to be able to resurrect and protect the American work ethic, is also important to me.
I was going to recommend that you pick one of the three most prestigious sign painting schools of my times, that I remember at this moment......but, unfortunately, it seems that these are not teaching sign painting anymore....but, so you know, they were:
1- Butera School of Art, 111 Beacon Street, Boston, Mass. ( I went to this one )
2- Chicago Institute of Lettering and Design, Chicago, IL ( or something like that )
3- Detroit Lakes Sign Painting School, Minnesota ( "The Minnesota Brush", Shawn Qualley went there. )
Nevertheless, since I assume that you are REALLY interested in learning.....and, with this, I mean REALLY,REALLY interested and, also, willing to listen and to put up with all the crap, quirks and verbal abuse that you will, probably, receive, along the way, from many of us, who will believe and tell you, to your face, that you are not going to make it, then, and only then, you might be ready to do some Google work to find one of us to teach you.
Mind you, this is only one person ( I don't even know him )...But, I am sure that there will be others who, like him, still do hand painted signs and who might be willing to teach someone, like you, who is REALLY interested in learning the trade and who is willing to pay attention to every detail that is taught to you.
Once, you have found that person, the next step is to make him believe in you....Believe that you are REALLY interested in learning the trade and, more importantly, you will have to prove it to him or her by showing up on time and doing what you are supposed to do, while under the tutelage of that person, so he or she does not start thinking that he or she is wasting their time with you......The next step would be to make sure that this person likes you and trusts you.... Very, very important.
My last piece of advice is a very sensitive one, but has to be mentioned.
You should, always, remember that you don't want this person to think that once he or she has taught you what they know, you are going to attempt to steal his or her customers, behind his or her back......This is a very serious offense, in this trade......So, if you make it this far, get your own clients.
If you think that you can adhere to this simple pattern, and put up with all the crap that is going to be thrown your way, then, and only then, there might, still, be hope for you........
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Well, I for one still do hand lettering, and lots of it. I'm at the point where it's hard to keep up with the demand. I admit that there was a lean time, but that was years ago.
I've recently taken on an apprentice, and she's really working out well. Her dedication to learning the craft is amazing. Whenever she has a chance, she practices her lettering and brush skills. I'm sure there's a lot of younger people out there who would love to learn, they just have to find you. I had to go through a number of people before I found one that was worth teaching, but they are out there. I'm just getting ready to do my first distressed sign workshop, and it's a full class. I'm looking forward to sharing what little I know, with a group of people that has such an interest in hand lettering, that they're willing to give up their weekend and hard earned money just to listen to me ramble on.
There's still a lot of work out there if you look. Paint a good sign and they will come. The film industry is moving back to hand painted signs. Once a production designer finds out you can actually hand letter, they start to design signs around that. Historic groups and museums are another one, they make up a large part of my market. With the internet, you're no longer limited to just the local market, I have work coming from both Canada, and the US. I just finished a job that's tied to the Superbowl, they shipped the product they wanted lettered, and I shipped it back, All within a week and a half, gotta love Fedex.
There is a problem with supplies and such, but it just means you have to find a workaround. My customers know they'll be paying more for my signs, and that's the customer I want. It's like everything in life, if you want to do something...just do it, and do it the best you can. I sold my digital printer a few years back, and don't miss it in the least. I never set out to be a printer, I just wanted to paint sign. Besides, that's all I know how to do...sort of.
[ January 24, 2014, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: Rick Janzen ]
posted
BRAVO RICK !!! I want to get back to what I love and have fallen for the computer stuff. Problem I keep having is with my eyes though. I can still make the stokes if they'd only hold still and stay in focus.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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